Re: Canelo-Jacobs / May 4th Las Vegas / WHO WINS (poll)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
I was just thinking, Canelo can now take as much risk as he wants because he is locked in to a contract while making a ton of money. He can lose his next ten fights and he will still make his money. That’s the best situation a fighter can be in. He can take all the risk without having to risk his money.
I'm pretty certain the contract doesn't quite work like that, it's based on performance and ratings. So he can't fight 10 Rocky Fieldings to steal the money, because obviously the big names like Jacobs bring in the subscribers, and at the same time if he suffers a bunch of bad losses his drawing power disappears. It's worth hundreds of millions but not guaranteed.
Is it not guaranteed? Maybe it’s not, but I never heard anything that it wasn’t
Re: Canelo-Jacobs / May 4th Las Vegas / WHO WINS (poll)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
I was just thinking, Canelo can now take as much risk as he wants because he is locked in to a contract while making a ton of money. He can lose his next ten fights and he will still make his money. That’s the best situation a fighter can be in. He can take all the risk without having to risk his money.
I'm pretty certain the contract doesn't quite work like that, it's based on performance and ratings. So he can't fight 10 Rocky Fieldings to steal the money, because obviously the big names like Jacobs bring in the subscribers, and at the same time if he suffers a bunch of bad losses his drawing power disappears. It's worth hundreds of millions but not guaranteed.
Is it not guaranteed? Maybe it’s not, but I never heard anything that it wasn’t
I highly doubt they paid him $365 million to bank, let alone without any say in his competition, that would be insane. For one, the deal came with Oscar providing 12 shows a year (basically they signed the GB stable) and Canelo's pay is based on subscribers, so he can make more than $33 million per fight (the minimum divvy up).
There's no way Canelo suffers a couple of bad losses then carries on banking $33 million per fight year after year against any Tom, Dick or Rocky. Just the same as there's no way he got that money without DAZN having the final say on his op. All networks have power over what matches they'll accept.
Re: Canelo-Jacobs / May 4th Las Vegas / WHO WINS (poll)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
I was just thinking, Canelo can now take as much risk as he wants because he is locked in to a contract while making a ton of money. He can lose his next ten fights and he will still make his money. That’s the best situation a fighter can be in. He can take all the risk without having to risk his money.
I'm pretty certain the contract doesn't quite work like that, it's based on performance and ratings. So he can't fight 10 Rocky Fieldings to steal the money, because obviously the big names like Jacobs bring in the subscribers, and at the same time if he suffers a bunch of bad losses his drawing power disappears. It's worth hundreds of millions but not guaranteed.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianma.../#6aebffde24ad
I don't get much into the contract side of boxing, but from it says here it would appear Canelo's minimum is guaranteed, regardless of opposition.
(from the article)
"Per a DAZN representative that I spoke to, the deal is worth a minimum of $365 million. Traditionally, Alvarez would be able to earn above and beyond his minimum purses based on pay-per-view buys and a percentage of the live gate from his fights. In this deal without a pay-per-view model, Alvarez will have other opportunities to earn above the base. There are escalators, but terms of those incentives were specified."
He can earn above that based on PPV and live gate numbers. Also, I don't think with Canelo you need "big names like Jacobs" to bring in subscribers. That assumption would apply to anyone else in boxing, but not Canelo. Canelo could literally fight Joe Blow dragged from the corner bar, and still bring in his own legion of loyal subscribers. Maybe if he did that like 5 or 6 times in a row, his fan base could foreseeably get a little restless..... but it's known fact that NOBODY in boxing gets as much slack as Canelo.
Re: Canelo-Jacobs / May 4th Las Vegas / WHO WINS (poll)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
I was just thinking, Canelo can now take as much risk as he wants because he is locked in to a contract while making a ton of money. He can lose his next ten fights and he will still make his money. That’s the best situation a fighter can be in. He can take all the risk without having to risk his money.
I'm pretty certain the contract doesn't quite work like that, it's based on performance and ratings. So he can't fight 10 Rocky Fieldings to steal the money, because obviously the big names like Jacobs bring in the subscribers, and at the same time if he suffers a bunch of bad losses his drawing power disappears. It's worth hundreds of millions but not guaranteed.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianma.../#6aebffde24ad
I don't get much into the contract side of boxing, but from it says here it would appear Canelo's minimum is guaranteed, regardless of opposition.
(from the article)
"Per a DAZN representative that I spoke to, the deal is worth a minimum of $365 million. Traditionally, Alvarez would be able to earn above and beyond his minimum purses based on pay-per-view buys and a percentage of the live gate from his fights. In this deal without a pay-per-view model, Alvarez will have other opportunities to earn above the base. There are escalators, but terms of those incentives were specified."
He can earn above that based on PPV and live gate numbers. Also, I don't think with Canelo you need "big names like Jacobs" to bring in subscribers. That assumption would apply to anyone else in boxing, but not Canelo. Canelo could literally fight Joe Blow dragged from the corner bar, and still bring in his own legion of loyal subscribers. Maybe if he did that like 5 or 6 times in a row, his fan base could foreseeably get a little restless..... but it's known fact that NOBODY in boxing gets as much slack as Canelo.
Yeah that's what I said about Canelo's deal. However, he doesn't have PPV anymore, that's the whole point, but he still needs to generate huge ratings (subscribers) to beat his minimum purse ($33 million).
He'll be making a lot more for Jacobs than Fielding, like he made a lot more against Golovkin ($50 million+) than Liam Smith (both HBO PPV).
Nobody in the history of boxing can suffer bad losses yet maintain their stardom/ratings. Just look at the current Manny Pac? The PPV with Broner is estimated as a success with 400,000 buys, he used to consistently do a million.
Re: Canelo-Jacobs / May 4th Las Vegas / WHO WINS (poll)
Guys, to make my point more understandable, what if Canelo got a career ending injury in his next fight? Or fails to meet his 11 fight, 5 year, contract? If he has $365 million banked he could never fight again due to all sorts of circumstances, so it's a little more complex than they reveal in press releases.
If I managed Canelo we certainly wouldn't be fighting Jacobs with 9 fights left to honour :)
Re: Canelo-Jacobs / May 4th Las Vegas / WHO WINS (poll)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
I was just thinking, Canelo can now take as much risk as he wants because he is locked in to a contract while making a ton of money. He can lose his next ten fights and he will still make his money. That’s the best situation a fighter can be in. He can take all the risk without having to risk his money.
I'm pretty certain the contract doesn't quite work like that, it's based on performance and ratings. So he can't fight 10 Rocky Fieldings to steal the money, because obviously the big names like Jacobs bring in the subscribers, and at the same time if he suffers a bunch of bad losses his drawing power disappears. It's worth hundreds of millions but not guaranteed.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianma.../#6aebffde24ad
I don't get much into the contract side of boxing, but from it says here it would appear Canelo's minimum is guaranteed, regardless of opposition.
(from the article)
"Per a DAZN representative that I spoke to, the deal is worth a minimum of $365 million. Traditionally, Alvarez would be able to earn above and beyond his minimum purses based on pay-per-view buys and a percentage of the live gate from his fights. In this deal without a pay-per-view model, Alvarez will have other opportunities to earn above the base. There are escalators, but terms of those incentives were specified."
He can earn above that based on PPV and live gate numbers. Also, I don't think with Canelo you need "big names like Jacobs" to bring in subscribers. That assumption would apply to anyone else in boxing, but not Canelo. Canelo could literally fight Joe Blow dragged from the corner bar, and still bring in his own legion of loyal subscribers. Maybe if he did that like 5 or 6 times in a row, his fan base could foreseeably get a little restless..... but it's known fact that NOBODY in boxing gets as much slack as Canelo.
Yeah that's what I said about Canelo's deal. However, he doesn't have PPV anymore, that's the whole point, but he still needs to generate huge ratings (subscribers) to beat his minimum purse ($33 million).
He'll be making a lot more for Jacobs than Fielding, like he made a lot more against Golovkin ($50 million+) than Liam Smith (both HBO PPV).
Nobody in the history of boxing can suffer bad losses yet maintain their stardom/ratings. Just look at the current Manny Pac? The PPV with Broner is estimated as a success with 400,000 buys, he used to consistently do a million.
Personally I'd love to see the details of Canelo's contract. I can see the # of subscribers as being the driving force behind any incentives for him to exceed his base (which regardless is still a pretty good base). After all it does come down to money for both DAZN and Canelo. But I would've liked for there to be incentives based on opponents' rankings and such. I'm pretty sure there aren't any, which of course will allow Canelo a lot more slack than with rankings-based incentives.
In actuality, the fact that Canelo is financially set for life many times over with this contract, actually puts a damper on any incentives Canelo may have to fight top-flight, elite opposition on a consistent basis. Why should he? All we can hope for is the occasional "token prod" from the boxing orgs so that it seems like they're "forcing" him to face the best. Especially the WBC, which will protect Canelo's "legacy" and cash cow status.
Re: Canelo-Jacobs / May 4th Las Vegas / WHO WINS (poll)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Guys, to make my point more understandable, what if Canelo got a career ending injury in his next fight? Or fails to meet his 11 fight, 5 year, contract? If he has $365 million banked he could never fight again due to all sorts of circumstances, so it's a little more complex than they reveal in press releases.
If I managed Canelo we certainly wouldn't be fighting Jacobs with 9 fights left to honour :)
This is correct. There's no way that money can be guaranteed in boxing. Promoters are not franchises like the Yankees with 81 guaranteed home games a year and guaranteed TV contracts. It's as guaranteed as Eddie Hearn's billion. If the numbers don't get made then there'll be escape clauses in the contracts. DAZN might not even exist in a couple of years.
Re: Canelo-Jacobs / May 4th Las Vegas / WHO WINS (poll)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Guys, to make my point more understandable, what if Canelo got a career ending injury in his next fight? Or fails to meet his 11 fight, 5 year, contract? If he has $365 million banked he could never fight again due to all sorts of circumstances, so it's a little more complex than they reveal in press releases.
If I managed Canelo we certainly wouldn't be fighting Jacobs with 9 fights left to honour :)
This is correct. There's no way that money can be guaranteed in boxing. Promoters are not franchises like the Yankees with 81 guaranteed home games a year and guaranteed TV contracts. It's as guaranteed as Eddie Hearn's billion. If the numbers don't get made then there'll be escape clauses in the contracts. DAZN might not even exist in a couple of years.
Obviously if you can’t honor your contract (by injury for example), then you won’t get paid. I’m also sure that DAZN does have some say in who Canelo fights. I can’t imagine that DAZN made a contract with Canelo allowing him to fight bums.
As titofan pointed out though, if he does honor his contract, meaning that he fights who GBP and DAZN agree upon, I don’t see anything that says that if he keeps on losing that he goes below his minimum contract price. Maybe I’m wrong, but I would have to see where it says that he can make less from losing fights.
So my original point was that losing to Jacobs doesn’t affect his future earnings like it would for other fighters.
Re: Canelo-Jacobs / May 4th Las Vegas / WHO WINS (poll)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Guys, to make my point more understandable, what if Canelo got a career ending injury in his next fight? Or fails to meet his 11 fight, 5 year, contract? If he has $365 million banked he could never fight again due to all sorts of circumstances, so it's a little more complex than they reveal in press releases.
If I managed Canelo we certainly wouldn't be fighting Jacobs with 9 fights left to honour :)
This is correct. There's no way that money can be guaranteed in boxing. Promoters are not franchises like the Yankees with 81 guaranteed home games a year and guaranteed TV contracts. It's as guaranteed as Eddie Hearn's billion. If the numbers don't get made then there'll be escape clauses in the contracts. DAZN might not even exist in a couple of years.
Obviously if you can’t honor your contract (by injury for example), then you won’t get paid. I’m also sure that DAZN does have some say in who Canelo fights. I can’t imagine that DAZN made a contract with Canelo allowing him to fight bums.
As titofan pointed out though, if he does honor his contract, meaning that he fights who GBP and DAZN agree upon, I don’t see anything that says that if he keeps on losing that he goes below his minimum contract price. Maybe I’m wrong, but I would have to see where it says that he can make less from losing fights.
So my original point was that losing to Jacobs doesn’t affect his future earnings like it would for other fighters.
He'll have to win as well. Or at least remain an attraction. If he's not selling streaming subscriptions he's not going to get paid. The entire payment thing is predicated on him making DAZN a profit. They're not doing this in order to hand him hundreds of millions of dollars, they're doing it to make money. If the money isn't coming in there'll be endless escape clauses for them to end the deal, same as with Hearn and his billion dollar deal.
Re: Canelo-Jacobs / May 4th Las Vegas / WHO WINS (poll)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Guys, to make my point more understandable, what if Canelo got a career ending injury in his next fight? Or fails to meet his 11 fight, 5 year, contract? If he has $365 million banked he could never fight again due to all sorts of circumstances, so it's a little more complex than they reveal in press releases.
If I managed Canelo we certainly wouldn't be fighting Jacobs with 9 fights left to honour :)
This is correct. There's no way that money can be guaranteed in boxing. Promoters are not franchises like the Yankees with 81 guaranteed home games a year and guaranteed TV contracts. It's as guaranteed as Eddie Hearn's billion. If the numbers don't get made then there'll be escape clauses in the contracts. DAZN might not even exist in a couple of years.
Obviously if you can’t honor your contract (by injury for example), then you won’t get paid. I’m also sure that DAZN does have some say in who Canelo fights. I can’t imagine that DAZN made a contract with Canelo allowing him to fight bums.
As titofan pointed out though, if he does honor his contract, meaning that he fights who GBP and DAZN agree upon, I don’t see anything that says that if he keeps on losing that he goes below his minimum contract price. Maybe I’m wrong, but I would have to see where it says that he can make less from losing fights.
So my original point was that losing to Jacobs doesn’t affect his future earnings like it would for other fighters.
He'll have to win as well. Or at least remain an attraction. If he's not selling streaming subscriptions he's not going to get paid. The entire payment thing is predicated on him making DAZN a profit. They're not doing this in order to hand him hundreds of millions of dollars, they're doing it to make money. If the money isn't coming in there'll be endless escape clauses for them to end the deal, same as with Hearn and his billion dollar deal.
Is that in the contract though? Like the amount of losses? Because that is the point of signing a contract. DAZN is hoping to make a huge profit off of Canelo and squeeze him for as much as he’s worth while Canelo is trying to get guaranteed money. Otherwise, what is a contract for if he loses to Jacobs and they just say “sorry, you lost and now we won’t honor your contract?”
A contract is signed and with that comes the risk that the person who signed the contract doesn’t make the money you hoped. Again, if someone can find me the part of the contract that gives DAZN an out of Canelo loses then I’ll believe you. Otherwise, I’ll assume it’s guaranteed.
Re: Canelo-Jacobs / May 4th Las Vegas / WHO WINS (poll)
I tried digging around for information on his contract a while back when it was announced, couldn’t find any details on how it was actually going to work, doesn’t seem like anyone knows for sure. As far as I know the concept of signing a boxer to a guaranteed long term contract is unprecedented? It can go south in any sport if the athlete gets injured, let alone boxing, so DAZN must have outs if something were to happen, or if they simply go under. Its got to be a fairly risky business model they have to begin with. Most likely it’s a ballpark amount saying that Canelo cant fight for anyone else as long as he makes them money. You can bet they have almost complete control over who he fights as well.
Re: Canelo-Jacobs / May 4th Las Vegas / WHO WINS (poll)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
I tried digging around for information on his contract a while back when it was announced, couldn’t find any details on how it was actually going to work, doesn’t seem like anyone knows for sure. As far as I know the concept of signing a boxer to a guaranteed long term contract is unprecedented? It can go south in any sport if the athlete gets injured, let alone boxing, so DAZN must have outs if something were to happen, or if they simply go under. Its got to be a fairly risky business model they have to begin with. Most likely it’s a ballpark amount saying that Canelo cant fight for anyone else as long as he makes them money. You can bet they have almost complete control over who he fights as well.
To guarantee that much money I would be fairly certain that DAZN has a lot of control over what he does. I wouldn’t be surprised if they made him fight Jacobs instead of GGG.
Re: Canelo-Jacobs / May 4th Las Vegas / WHO WINS (poll)
And along what I said, DAZN wouldn’t be stupid and continue putting him in fights that he would just lose. Obviously if he lost they would give him tune up fights which they know the Mexican fans would still watch him. And as long as he still makes exciting fights, most fans of the sport will continue to watch him.
Re: Canelo-Jacobs / May 4th Las Vegas / WHO WINS (poll)
It's a cracking fight if it happens and I think Canelo just has too much for Jacobs. I don't think Jacobs beat GGG even though he was Golovkins best opponent until Alvarez, but gingernuts is a classy boxer even if he is not a very classy person. He has always had a quality arsenal of punches to draw on and can put his work together very well. Excellent timing and a solid noggin. He lost clearly in the first Golovkin fight and was closer in the second but I think should have lost that narrowly too.
I think Jacobs best chance is to make it physical early. Get in close, tie him up and then start putting real pressure on as Canelo tires. Canelo's conditioning is not terrible but if Jacobs can up the pace in the second half he might just catch him.
Re: Canelo-Jacobs / May 4th Las Vegas / WHO WINS (poll)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kirkland Laing
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Guys, to make my point more understandable, what if Canelo got a career ending injury in his next fight? Or fails to meet his 11 fight, 5 year, contract? If he has $365 million banked he could never fight again due to all sorts of circumstances, so it's a little more complex than they reveal in press releases.
If I managed Canelo we certainly wouldn't be fighting Jacobs with 9 fights left to honour :)
This is correct. There's no way that money can be guaranteed in boxing. Promoters are not franchises like the Yankees with 81 guaranteed home games a year and guaranteed TV contracts. It's as guaranteed as Eddie Hearn's billion. If the numbers don't get made then there'll be escape clauses in the contracts. DAZN might not even exist in a couple of years.
Obviously if you can’t honor your contract (by injury for example), then you won’t get paid. I’m also sure that DAZN does have some say in who Canelo fights. I can’t imagine that DAZN made a contract with Canelo allowing him to fight bums.
As titofan pointed out though, if he does honor his contract, meaning that he fights who GBP and DAZN agree upon, I don’t see anything that says that if he keeps on losing that he goes below his minimum contract price. Maybe I’m wrong, but I would have to see where it says that he can make less from losing fights.
So my original point was that losing to Jacobs doesn’t affect his future earnings like it would for other fighters.
He'll have to win as well. Or at least remain an attraction. If he's not selling streaming subscriptions he's not going to get paid. The entire payment thing is predicated on him making DAZN a profit. They're not doing this in order to hand him hundreds of millions of dollars, they're doing it to make money. If the money isn't coming in there'll be endless escape clauses for them to end the deal, same as with Hearn and his billion dollar deal.
Is that in the contract though? Like the amount of losses? Because that is the point of signing a contract. DAZN is hoping to make a huge profit off of Canelo and squeeze him for as much as he’s worth while Canelo is trying to get guaranteed money. Otherwise, what is a contract for if he loses to Jacobs and they just say “sorry, you lost and now we won’t honor your contract?”
A contract is signed and with that comes the risk that the person who signed the contract doesn’t make the money you hoped. Again, if someone can find me the part of the contract that gives DAZN an out of Canelo loses then I’ll believe you. Otherwise, I’ll assume it’s guaranteed.
I can guarantee you it's not guaranteed. NFL players' contracts aren't even guaranteed. And they're contracts with franchises who have guaranteed predictable income streams for years ahead. Baseball players have guaranteed money because of strikes and stoppages over the years. But even then their union had an actual organisation to negotiate with run by a commissioner. Professional boxing is just a bunch of dodgy businessmen who can't agree on anything, never mind forming some kind of umbrella organisation that a nonexistent boxers' union could negotiate with.
At the end of the day pro boxing is a bunch of guys putting their own money up to finance various fights which may or may not result in a profit for the promoter. It in no way resembles any kind of organised league or collective or whatever. Boxing contracts aren't worth the paper they're printed on by and large. The people paying the money have endless escape clauses built into them because they can't guarantee anything for any length of time. A promoter is not like the Red Sox or the Lakers where they have a known fanbase, TV contracts for years ahead, a waiting list for season tickets at their stadiums and so on to the point where they can closely predict their revenue for years to come. Promoters and especially TV/media companies don't have guaranteed revenue streams in the same way, especially at the dawn of the streaming age with pirates able to steal streams and resell them via iptv subscriptions etc. Nobody can predict whether they'll even be there in a couple of years. Even Alvarez who is the closest thing in boxing right now to a sure thing can't be sure he's going to be able to fight again ever. He could fail a brain scan, suffer an career ending injury in training and so on. You'd be crazy to guarantee him hundreds of millions of dollars when his situation is so ephemeral.
