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Marquez said something along the lines of, if he beat pacman, he would be where pacqiou is at today...so i have a question for you guys...lets say marquez won, and decided to do what pacqiou did...how does he fair against delahoya, hatton, cotto, clottey, margarito, under the same fight conditions. I understand that styles make fights so i dont think marquez would do as well.
Stops Diaz and HattonQuote:
Originally Posted by Boxer4life
ODLH UD
COTTO UD
CLOTTEY UD
MARGARITO by TKO
MOSLEY by TKO
I do believe if he would have been declared winner in both of those fights he would be ranked higher all time than he is now. However i don't believe he would be able to move up in weight the way Pacquiao did. Let's just say he does move up in weight, here's how i think it goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer4life
ODLH-Marquez loses a close decision
Hatton-Marquez wins via late stoppage, or decision
Cotto-Marquez is stopped in the middle rounds
Clottey-Marquez wins a UD
Margarito-Marquez is stopped in the middle rounds
I do think if he were to get the win in those two fights he may have moved up to 140, but never up to 147 and 154.
Fact is, Marquez didn't win either one of those fights and for him to say that he'd be where Pacquiao is now, is delusional. Marquez is also delusional if he believes he's on the same level as Pacquiao going into the 3rd fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer4life
I think Marquez is not talking about welterweight. I think he is talking more about status. The guy is arguably the #3 p4p in the sport, only losing to the top 2, and is still no draw. As far as the welterweight success of Pac and Marquez's probable "not so successful" welterweight attempts has to do mostly with the ability to take the bigger guy's punches over the fight's length. Pac still has a granite chin even at welterweight so this cancels/lessens the bigger guy's advantage and falls right into Pac's advantage of speed and quickness. Marquez is a much better fighter than a Margarito but I'm sure not too many of us are confident Marquez's chin would hold up to the bigger guy's punches. Now he has a bigger and stronger Pac to deal with...
Marquez has a great chin though. He got caught flush by a left hook from PBF, whilst being slightly off-balance and was knocked down but not hurt at all. Speed has been the key to manny's success from the very beginning of his miniature ascendancy to 'p4p supremacy'. Most of the guys he has fought didn't have fast enough feet to close off the ring and pin him down long enough to mount a sustained attack to the body, at which I think he would break against a bigger guy. Also could see him getting caught on the way in by someone like Martinez and simply KTFO, but unless Martinez comes down so far in weight as to nullify any possible weapons he might be able to utilise against Pac, the fight will never happen. Pac's lateral movement and speed of hand and foot is just too good for these bigger guys, who are generally slower and less agile anyway, and even then you just have to take one look at Pac's face after the Cotto fight to understand that if he ever had the stupidity to go against Roach's instructions and stand in the pocket against a bigger fighter he would get his arse handed to him, because his head movement still ain't all that - in fact, his defense in general doesn't hold up to closer inspection, but when you can just attack for 80% of a fight at blistering speed you simultaneously take away your opponent's best opportunities for counterattack and his will to launch said attack. The Pac man is truly blessed in that respect, and props to him and Roach for playing to their strengths, but the cherry-picking will never sit well with me, and stops him from really getting up there on that ATG list. As a fan of the art of boxing, I have to say I'm a big fan of Marquez and it's gonna be hard not to avert my eyes on the 12th because the circumstances are just all wrong for this one. Still, here's praying he can pull a rabbit out of the hat. :-XQuote:
Originally Posted by blegit
I don't think JJM would be where Pac is today, but I think we would have seen him against Morales & Barrera & even Pac in a sort of round robin type scenario.
i agree with most of you, now another question, if pacqiou lost, would he have moved up?
I think he would have since he had already outgrown that weight division. He might have tried a weaker opponent than David Diaz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer4life
But then again, Pac could have also done what Cotto did, aim for the belt title at the higher division after a defeat. And David Diaz was already the weakest among the belt holders then.
Would Marquez be on that special "spinich in a needle" diet too or not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer4life
Stops Diaz
Hatton - tough call. JMM on the cards probably.
ODLH UD
COTTO KO
CLOTTEY UD
MARGARITO by TKO
MOSLEY by TKO