Re: Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition
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Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
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Originally Posted by
mikeeod
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Originally Posted by
imp
The majority of us would probably all agree that floyd has the edge in the harder opponents and has consistently beat everyone of his 47 opponents including castillo with a torn rotator.
Can we please discuss manny pac 5 losses..?
Do you think we could touch on that a teeny weeny bit?
Manny is a great guy (no doubt) but lets exclude the wars he had with marquez with the last one leaving him completely sparked out by an out of prime 40 year old who jumped up in weight?!!
Lets stay away from the easy accusation of nut hugging and deflecting the arguement and deal with mannys great but flawed record.
Floyd and manny are worlds apart in skill and £worth£ but lets keep ignoring it and make it seem like manny is ying to floyds yang as it keeps everyone guessing..
Next time this thread should be between manny and bradley as they both beat each other but after bradleys injury in the second fight it was plain to see he was a different fighter (again).
Close your eyes.
Put your house on the fight.
Be honest with yourself
Who would you really bet on to win..exactly.
Seems like the majority on the board feel Pac fought tougher comp. I only see yourself and Beanflicker saying opposite and really not making much sense or a convincing argument. You can see the bias come through in your guys posts. Honestly, you don't make very many rational, unbiased observations, you just get frustrated and end up off topic on who would win a head to head fight, who beat what version of whom...etc. Good down the list. Look at 1) fighters ranked P4P at the time of the fight, 2) Times either guy was the considerable underdog and won 3) How many prime HOF fighters each guy fought. That should be your criteria and it isn't even close. I will help out and post so you guys don't have to do the work and look it up.
His logo is TMT. I didn't expect him to be rational when it came to Floyd.
Let's be honest though. Floyd hasn't lost. That's something Manny can't claim. Like Manny, he's a multiple weight champion. Are some of his wins manufactured? Yes. Are some of Manny's? Yes. Even with the weight advantage, he did something Manny has never been able to do and that's skunk Marquez. Has his opposition in the last few years been less than desired? Absolutely. Still though, he's done for the most part what he should do with that opposition. I would say his best wins came more than a few years ago. I would also say he's comparable with Manny on a historical scale. In other words, there isn't a ton separating them.
For the most part I agree with your statement. Both are ATG fighters and neither is afraid of anyone. It's sad that boxing fans feel the need to tear down either guy to try and defend the other. This thread was started, made contentious and kept going by two or three Floyd huggers, but you can't hold that against Floyd. I still feel Manny beat better comp, but it isn't by much and Floyd is definitely a great fighter.
Re: Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition
Re: Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition
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Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
What about steroids?
It's a good question for both guys and I think both guys will be haunted by it.
They both left a lot to be desired in that department. First, Manny won't take the test for the fight. Then, Floyd pays Manny more than $3million to settle the lawsuit against Floyd for defamation because he won't give up the results of his previous tests and has a long-standing relationship with one of the biggest testosterone guys in the South and multiple guys in his gym get busted for testosterone.
Frankly, it's sort of like baseball players in the 90's with boxing now in a way. Will we ever know who took what? I doubt it.
Re: Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition
I think the Manny that beat Margarito at 154lb would have beaten the Oscar that fought Floyd but not the version that beat Vargas.
Re: Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition
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Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
The perception seems to be that, when you're talking about the competition each guy has faced, Manny was a real man who fought nothing but the best and Floyd was the guy who meticulously cherry picked easily opponents. A lot of people still believe Pac was the better fighter because he fought much better opposition.
Can someone explain that to me?
DLH - a guy Floyd beat a year prior. Forced to drain himself down to a weigh class he hadn't fought at in 7 or 8 years prior to that fight.
Ricky Hatton - Great win but another Floyd leftover who's camp seemed to be in turmoil and had broke off with his long time trainer.
Cotto - great win, but came at a time when Cotto's stock had fallen greatly after being physically destroyed by Marg and was coming off a controversial split decision win over Clottey where he looked terrible.
Clottely - Tough fighter but actually coming off of the loss to Cotto.
Marg - newly off of his suspension after being absolutely destroyed by Mosley. Shane Mosley leftover
Shane Mosley - Floyd leftover coming off a dominating loss to Floyd and a draw where he looked like absolute shit against Sergio Mora of all people.
JMM - Great fighter, but obviously it has to be noted that JMM is a guy who gave Pac absolute fits and knocked him unconscious, whereas Floyd pitched a virtual shutout against him and made JMM look like an amateur (the only person to have done that)
Tim Bradley - nothing to complain about here. Manny fought the undefeated, crafty Bradley twice and won twice (despite what the judges said the first time). Great wins.
Brandon Rios - Blown up 135lber coming off a loss to Alvarado. Pointless fight.
Chris Algeri - Virtual unknown until a SD win over Provodnikov. Tall with long reach, but seemingly no power. I think most boxing fans are in agreement that this is a pretty uninteresting fight.
Am I being unfair to Manny? I'm not saying that these fights meant nothing because for the most part they were fought against very tough fighters. But once you get past the fact that Manny was fighting larger guys (something Floyd has done every time out), how come we don't scrutinize Manny's competition like we do Floyd's?
I dont know who says Manny fights better. I believe they are on par with eachother with Pac fighting better fighters earlier in his career and Floyd fighting better. The reason Floyd gets stick about it because he claims to be the best ever. If he believes that he should fight the best. Noone thinks Pac is close to the best ever
Re: Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition
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Originally Posted by
imp
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Originally Posted by
Master
I think the Manny that beat Margarito at 154lb would have beaten the Oscar that fought Floyd but not the version that beat Vargas.
No way!
The big oscar floyd fought would have beat manny and margacheato on the same night!
That Oscar tired badly after 6 rounds which he was winning. Manny would have taken over.
Re: Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition
Sadly this cant be done on a micro-level. Like in the thread title under a different name, I have never seen this kind of equality on epic ledgers such as this and legacy in the same weight area in quite some time. I have also never seen two others in a similar situation not find a way to fight each other.
Manny fought ATG'S past their prime and arguably lost to Marquez 3 other times. Had weight conditions with others and Oscar should not even be considered. The guy had not made welter in almost 10 years. Rehydrated 2 pounds coming in at 145/147 (at fight time) and looked like he had scurvy and both feet nailed to the floor. Means about as much as Holmes/Ali. Still a remarkable set f prints left in the sport.
Floyd beat many more prime guys and above average fighters in their prime. Still, he seemed content and not going beyond the call of duty like Manny did. But he did dominate. Trouble with Floyd is he fed on the same style of fighter much of the time and always seemed more about money then legacy and got breaks along the way having Cortez in many fights. Extra long time off and probably sat out 5 years of his prime.
Both guys are first ballot and both will have a few asterisks attached at the end of the day and the one in bold will be the fact that they share the blame for never fighting. No way should this fight have escaped history.
Re: Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition
Comparing Manny and Floyd is like comparing Floyd to fighters from different eras, they just aint gonna fight and we dont really know who would win. Flod is big fav but Ive always maintained speed and movement could cause Floyd to struggle. Thats why I give Khan a great chance against him, a better chance than I would give him of beating Pac.
As for Floyds opposition being much superior to Pacs well if we look at their last 7.
Floyd has Mosly who was well past it, Ortiz who is noy good, Cotto who got obliterated by Pac (easier than Floyd did) Guerrero who again is average, Alavarez (his best opponent) who I again dont rate at that level as I feel he should have lost to Lara and anyone strugling with Trout isnt going to be a match for Floyd and then Maidana twice who in my opinoin was not worthy of a fight with Floyd once let alone twice.
Pac has Margarito nothing special but is as good as Maidana, Mosely shot, Marquez as good as anyone on the floyds list, Bradley twice again as good as anyone on Floyds list and Rios who is just shit.
Re: Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition
We can go back and fourth all we want but as fans we should be grateful we were alive in this era to see these guys fighting. In the end I think Manny is a far superior fighter, I know each fighter has a style until themselves but Floyd wouldn't go balls to the wall as Manny always does. Floyd would not fighter a fighter who consistently gives him trouble as JMM did Manny. If so Floyd would have taken on Cotto three months after the first fight. Manny New when he stepped in the ring against JMM it wasn't a gimme but so many if Floyd's fights were gimme. I think his rematch with his last opponent was more to fulfill his contract than to prove anything else. If Floyd gets the W with some controversy when has he ever given a shot about proving things to his fans. Floyd has no fans, only people who give him money. I think Manny has an entire different view on such things. One of our members here @pacfan often talks about how like is in the Philippines and how Manny was selling food on the streets to help his family survive. Someone else said comparing these two fighters is comparing apples and oranges.Tough times for Manny were avoiding starvation, tough times for Floyd were doing time for domestic abuse..
I have much more respect for Manny not only in boxing but in humanity. He is tough in ways that Floyd couldn't experience any longer.
To reiterate, I am glad I'm a boxing fan and have been able to pay overpriced numbers to see Floyd fight, absolutely love to see him do his thing but even more so when it comes to Manny. I always feel I'm seeing something beyond special with Manny. Sure he has some loses, but his record overall is mind blowing especially when you look where he came from. I have been left breathless after seeing Manny land combos like nothing I have seen before. He is beyond great and he doesn't need to tell us every five minutes. Manny v Pac will happen in 2015. I hear Mannys team is looking to steal Biber away from team money. If this does happen Manny v Pac may not happen as Beiber is the only thing keeping Floyd from beginning a full "blown" pedophile. Justin looks long enough where he fulfills Floyd's need for young boys to touch and penetrate but losing him from team money will force Floyd to capture what he really wants, eleven year old boys. Manny is going to rescue Beiber and get him the help he needs. Bahai
Re: Floyd's competition vs Manny's competition
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Originally Posted by
walrus
Floyd would not fighter a fighter who consistently gives him trouble as JMM did Manny.
Castillo gave him hell and arguably beat him... rematched.
Maidana gave him hell and came very close... rematched.
When you're talk about who was the most exciting fighter, Manny wins by a landslide. It's not even close.
When you're talking about who the superior fighter was and who had the superior career, it was Floyd Mayweather. You'd have to be crazy to argue with either of those facts.