i like holyfield better---but holmes would prob win by a sd. although i dont recall holmes fighting any1 w as much heart or determination as holyfield
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i like holyfield better---but holmes would prob win by a sd. although i dont recall holmes fighting any1 w as much heart or determination as holyfield
Very good matchup never seen it mentioned here, I really think it could go either way, if evander fights smart not overlly aggressive IO think he takes a majority or split decision, his style is much like kenny norton with better power and much more speed, and hes got a chin 8x better
i think Larry stops Evander on cuts. Larry almost beat Evander when they fought in the 90's. i think Evander won a split decision and Larry wasn't even near his prime. people really forget how good Larry was. between i say 78 and 83, Larry was as good as anyone in history.
ok first of all evander is my favorite boxer of all time BUT, in all fairness a 42 yr old holmes did fairly well against a prime holyfield! if the larry that beat ali was in there it would have holmes by ud.
Yeah imo there's really no doubt Holmes would have taken it prime for prime.. Just as people have said, he had a lot of success against a prime Holyfield as an old man.. He definetly had the style and size to beat Evander I think.
Would be a great fight IMO. Prime for Prime, I go with Holmes 7 out of 10. Holyfield could definately win though.
:coolclick: I won't say he was as good as anyone in history, but he could definately hang with anyone IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by EastonAssassin
Holmes win by UD IMO
dont be so sure comparing ages, holmes gave tyson problems as well past his prime but a bit younger.. boxing is styles also holyfield has 0 and I mean 0 motivation to fight larry holmes its in his book he wanted tyson but was forced into fightin holmes, he stated im sick of the senior circuit he said... that being said holyfield motivated and challenged against a young holmes would be a good fight, holmes really stuggled with ken norton who is really a lesser fighter skill wise than holyfild (not to mention chin wise) holyifeld does not have the punching power of tyson and its a fact of styles in that even holmes in his forties possesd good boxcing abilities, I think holmes could win no doubt but its a toss up, oh I dont think the fight would ever end in cuts either way, a decision for either man and Id lean towards holyfield
i believe if you're the heavyweight world champion and you can't get motivated for a title defense then you shouldn't be champ. that being said, i highly doubt that being the case with Holyfield. he's always been a true and dedicated champion and motivation has never been a problem for Holyfield. i've watched Holyfield since his light heavyweight days and i never seen himm give less than 100% physically or mentally. not even when he went through his medical problems in the mid 90's. so i don't buy that one. as far as Norton goes, his style gave Larry problems. styles make fights. Frazier gave Ali fits but got destroyed by Foreman. Holyfield let Bowe out jab him and beat him twice. and i think we can all agree, he couldn't carry Larry's jock.Quote:
Originally Posted by pacdog
evander "the holy warrior" holyfield he'll put holmes to sleep.
Holmes by clear cut UD. His jab would keep Holyfield at bay and would be the deciding factor IMO
Old shot Holmes won 5 rounds against prime Holyfield winning last 3 rounds of the fight when Holyfield look tired and prime Holmes would comfortably outpoint Holyfield.
Shame he couldn't do that to old one when he lost 5 rounds to old fat one Holmes would beat Holyfield with jab and straight right you obvisiously didn't know Holmes and Holyfield fought already otherwise you wouldn't be saying that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
If were talkin prime for prime, Holmes working behind IMO the best left jab ever wears Holyfield down and tko or maybe K.O. Evander late in the fight.
i'm saying that because holyfield is my boy!Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Fair play but really and truthfully he wouldn't win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
In my opinion Evander was a few years removed from his prime. vs. Holmes , Evander was at his best between 87-90Quote:
Originally Posted by EastonAssassin
Evander beat Holmes from pillar to post in 92.. Larry was cemented in corner holding on to the ropes trying not to fall down.. and Evander had to shame him out to the center of the ring from time to time , drawing an imaginary line . Larry would try and bait his opponent like he did to Ray Mercer his previous match .. Sit on the corner buckle and bait. Evander was not gonna have any of that.
prime for prime would have been a firecracker , no question .
Disagree Holyfield wasn't removed from his prime after Holmes fight he fought fight of his life vs Bowe and in rematch performed the best he ever had at hw and Holyfield didn't beat him pillar to post punchstats were only like 207 to 240 Holyfield looked like he was running out of steam in last 3 and Holmes won last 3 quite comfortably hurting Holyfield with straight right hands prime Holmes would beat Holyfield by ud.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lords Gym
I think you misunderstanding what I am saying.. I am talking Evander’s physical best. His prime.. No doubt he had some great fights there after. One being vs. Tyson in 96 at 34 years old. ,that great win came many years removed from his prime , what I am saying is that Evander was at his best peak conditioning and technical form in that 4 year span I mentioned above 87-90 Holyfield is still a great fighter and would beat 98% of the guys today’s at 45 years old trust me. Evander blankets this new WBA champion, Oleg Maskaev ,Briggs, and I also feel he would beat Wladimer Klitchko . but that’s a new topic ! LOL….CC mate, enjoyed your read !
:coolclick:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lords Gym
come on holmes isn't invinsible holyfield is a small heavyweight but he got heart and you never know who could be suddenly knock out.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Nope he isn't but he would beat Holyfield you honestly think that prime Holmes wouldn't win when 40+ shot one won 5 rounds against prime Holyfield ?? im sorry Holyfield would be eating that piston left jab all night Holyfield would make it competitive wouldn't be one sided at all but Holmes would win ud im pretty sure of it and both guys haven't got power to ko eachother and plus both men have granite chins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
thanks for the sad click i guess thats what i get for sticking up for my boy holyfield huh. damn holmes why he gotta be better for huh? heheQuote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
I didn't give you sc actually i never sc anyone and to prove i didn't have :coolclick: i don't sc anyone for there opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
+772 :coolclick: to you too, my mistake sorry bRo. hmm..... now who could of sd me then.....ooh well
No problem mate i love debate i love to hear all different opinions i never sc anyone i don't see why i should because there debating exactly what im doing i get alot of scs for speaking my mind but it don't matter because i like speaking my mind i hope we have much more friendly debates because i love em.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
peace 8)
I love holy but I gotta agree that he'd lose a SD. He might even get a flash knock down but Larry would just take to many rounds with the great jab and movement.
i still think holyfield gotz a very good chance against holmes--but it would most likely b holmes on points--however any1 say a prime holmes could beat ali(1964-75)...thats just crazy
Yeah if Larry were to win it would be on points with his jabQuote:
Originally Posted by VanChilds
I'd see alot of leaping in with hooks from Evander but for teh most part being pinned on teh end of a long range jab . To clsoe teh distance Evander would have to stop bouncing on his toes so much cuz it upsets his rythm and he cant set himself for punches that way. Up close is where he'd do his damage . He is a better in fighter and his combinations would rough Larry up ( not to mention the head work ) The longer it went the more Evander would close the distance and find success . Its anyones fight .
Its not so crazy when Ali has been took to his limit against lesser men than Holmes im not saying Holmes would win but honestly all people that say Ali would beat Holmes easily are wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by undefeated
i believe if you're the heavyweight world champion and you can't get motivated for a title defense then you shouldn't be champ. that being said, i highly doubt that being the case with Holyfield. he's always been a true and dedicated champion and motivation has never been a problem for Holyfield. i've watched Holyfield since his light heavyweight days and i never seen himm give less than 100% physically or mentally. not even when he went through his medical problems in the mid 90's. so i don't buy that one. as far as Norton goes, his style gave Larry problems. styles make fights. Frazier gave Ali fits but got destroyed by Foreman. Holyfield let Bowe out jab him and beat him twice. and i think we can all agree, he couldn't carry Larry's jock.
I have to strongly disagree with you here, while Im sure holyfield was physically up to the challenge the desire to fight holmes wasnt there he simply want eager t face him as he stated in his book, like you said styles make fights holmes gave tyson a bit of trouble for some rounds.. but tyson has trmendous power holyfield is more of a boxer who can pick he spots inside, again im not saying holy would defently win but in all honesty I dont see your point i that bowe coudlnt carry homes jockstrap... mabey in the heart department, also I thought evander one pretty convincly he has never been a big knock out artist and priime for prime holyfield had faster hands than larry its larrys reach thats the problem, oh also you think holmes could beat bowe in his prime? Mabey mabey not, he struggled with ken norton an ordinary fighter who gave ALI problems well due too Style see styles make fights and I would think bowe or holyfield would handily beat ken norton
Norton wasn't ordinary fighter he was skilled fighter who had trouble if you jumped on him straight away like Foreman + Shavers but if you let him get warmed up he could be handful for anyone Holmes won 5 rounds against prime Holyfield and Holyfield would of been up for Holmes because he knew Holmes had just outboxed Ray Mercer who was dangerous fighter so he would of been up for it Holmes jab would win fight he would stay on outside and outpoint Holyfield he would make it competitive against Holmes but he wouldn't win imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by pacdog
Ice I agree to disagree, I go back aways and ken norton did not possess the skill level holyfield did he did not have as good a boxing ability nor handpseed in their. Holyfield has always risen to the occassion in big fights in which he is challenged, the public was not eager to see holyfiled face larry he actually wanted to fight mercer but was stuck when larry won. He had just beaten foreman and he did not want to take the flack for fighting another senior its a no win situation, holyfield took alot of flack before earning respect due to tyson but years later Im not 100% sure tyson would have beaten a 40 year old foreman as foreman stated many times he came back for tyson, as he comes right to you. Ice.. I totally see how holmes could win and could see holyfield winning as well, i wouldnt feel comfortable either way putting money on it, holyfield when forced to do so can box, and we certainly no larry can.
larry had an awesome jab but Alis was better which is why ali would beat holmes in his prime, even the fight in which holmes destroyed ali when ali threw the jab it was sharper and more accurate, ali had the most effective Overall jab in heavy weight boxing 2. holmes, Most powerjab formean
I don't think so Ali may of had faster jab but for sharpness and power Holmes jab was better and Holmes would give Ali all he could handle just like Norton's jab gave Ali trouble and when did Ali throw jab sharper than Holmes in there fight ?? he threw maybe 5 punches in whole fight and they were never sharp let alone sharper than Holmes jab.Quote:
Originally Posted by pacdog
Ice this one I cant even debate, Ive seen both Prime for Prime and Ali would take any version of holmes to school in his Prime and put on a boxing clinic there is no doubt in my mind, I give holmes a great nod as mabey the second best pure boxer but Ali was basically retartedly past his prime in their and holmes did not impress me he fought cautious and like a girl for ali was totally defensless in their,
He was trying not to hurt Ali thats why he didn't impress he was carrying Ali well known fact he would of took Ali in about 7 if he was not carrying him just like Sugar Ray Robinson carried an older Henry Armstrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by pacdog
That well may have been the case but you do more dmage to a man that way, he shoulod have stopped him literally in 4, ali was like a developmentally disbled man in their that night, he even looked strange before the fight began like he was retarted physically, how they let him fight and then let him fight again is murder, dundee was right sayed muhamed should have been locked up
I agree Holmes was asking ref to stop it aswell he wouldn't though but Holmes said to me that he wanted to carry Ali to 15th because he always liked Ali and he wanted Ali to still have his pride by going the 15 rounds but i think Holmes should of just took him out earlier would of been better for both Holmes and Ali.Quote:
Originally Posted by pacdog
Yep i agree, Holmes truly a complete fighter heart chin, boxing ability, just saying that ali had even better boxing ability, better chin, and much much faster hands in his youth...