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Thread: The Greatness of Joe Frazier

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    Default The Greatness of Joe Frazier

    Unlike most great fighters, the record book just doesn't come close to capturing what made Joe Frazier "Smokin' Joe."

    Sure Joe defeated over a dozen ranked heavyweights. Sure he was the undisputed heavyweight champion. Sure he won what may be boxing's single most prestigious fight. Sure it took a top five all-time heavyweight to beat him.

    But those aren't the things that made Joe Frazier "Smokin Joe."

    Instead it was the distance he traveled to do those things. He was under six feet tall, had a reach of an alligator, didn't have much of a right hand, was a very slow starter and had damaged an eye in 1966. What in God's name made anyone think he belonged in the ring with a supremely gifted athlete like Muhammad Ali? Well to quote a fighting truism "It isn't the size of the dog in the fight, it is the size of the fight in the dog."

    No fighter I can name ever surpassed Joe Frazier's determination. It dripped from the man, it flowed through his veins and it never ever ran out. Want to measure a man's heart? See how he acts when things are bleak. George Foreman knocked him down six times in Jamaica. Joe Frazier got up six times. Ringo Bonavena dropped Joe twice early in his career. Joe won the fight. Muhammad Ali closed his good eye in Manila, and what did Joe do? He reached out with both hands to find his foe and then began winging away. When Eddie Futch stopped the fight after 14 rounds, Joe was willing to go on, against perhaps the greatest heavy of them all, blind. George Foreman would knock him down twice more in their rematch. Twice, Joe would arise.

    No fighter in history ever got more out of what nature gave him that Joe Frazier did. He was gifted with a fast and powerful left hand. He turned it into a boxing thunderbolt. He was short, so he fought shorter. He didn't see well, so he manufactured a way to get close. He trained in such a way that could could bob and weave and land leaping left hooks for fifteen rounds. The pain that such training must have caused him is beyond what I can fathom.

    And through success and failure he retained an elemental dignity and let everyone know through his actions "I am a man." Even his bitterness towards his greatest foe seemed reasonable given the savagery of Ali's words. In the end, maybe more than anyone else Ali understood the magnificence of Frazier's unconquerable will when he said if he had to fight a Holy War, he wanted Frazier with him.

    It's strange sometimes where the truth reveals itself. In Rocky III as the Mayor of Philadelphia dedicates a statue to Rocky Balboa, he says "It will stand forever as a tribute to the indomitable spirit of man." Few men, not just fighters, but few men, have an indomitable spirit. Joe Frazier had one. Some men beat Joe Frazier.

    No one ever defeated him. That made him "Smokin' Joe."
    Hidden Content Bring me the best and I will knock them out-Alexis Arguello
    I'm not God, but I am something similar-Robert Duran

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    Default Re: The Greatness of Joe Frazier

    Such a great writing to appreciate Joe. Kudos man.


    How I would love if floyd will get a chance to read this too.

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    Default Re: The Greatness of Joe Frazier

    Quote Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui View Post
    Unlike most great fighters, the record book just doesn't come close to capturing what made Joe Frazier "Smokin' Joe."

    Sure Joe defeated over a dozen ranked heavyweights. Sure he was the undisputed heavyweight champion. Sure he won what may be boxing's single most prestigious fight. Sure it took a top five all-time heavyweight to beat him.

    But those aren't the things that made Joe Frazier "Smokin Joe."

    Instead it was the distance he traveled to do those things. He was under six feet tall, had a reach of an alligator, didn't have much of a right hand, was a very slow starter and had damaged an eye in 1966. What in God's name made anyone think he belonged in the ring with a supremely gifted athlete like Muhammad Ali? Well to quote a fighting truism "It isn't the size of the dog in the fight, it is the size of the fight in the dog."

    No fighter I can name ever surpassed Joe Frazier's determination. It dripped from the man, it flowed through his veins and it never ever ran out. Want to measure a man's heart? See how he acts when things are bleak. George Foreman knocked him down six times in Jamaica. Joe Frazier got up six times. Ringo Bonavena dropped Joe twice early in his career. Joe won the fight. Muhammad Ali closed his good eye in Manila, and what did Joe do? He reached out with both hands to find his foe and then began winging away. When Eddie Futch stopped the fight after 14 rounds, Joe was willing to go on, against perhaps the greatest heavy of them all, blind. George Foreman would knock him down twice more in their rematch. Twice, Joe would arise.

    No fighter in history ever got more out of what nature gave him that Joe Frazier did. He was gifted with a fast and powerful left hand. He turned it into a boxing thunderbolt. He was short, so he fought shorter. He didn't see well, so he manufactured a way to get close. He trained in such a way that could could bob and weave and land leaping left hooks for fifteen rounds. The pain that such training must have caused him is beyond what I can fathom.

    And through success and failure he retained an elemental dignity and let everyone know through his actions "I am a man." Even his bitterness towards his greatest foe seemed reasonable given the savagery of Ali's words. In the end, maybe more than anyone else Ali understood the magnificence of Frazier's unconquerable will when he said if he had to fight a Holy War, he wanted Frazier with him.

    It's strange sometimes where the truth reveals itself. In Rocky III as the Mayor of Philadelphia dedicates a statue to Rocky Balboa, he says "It will stand forever as a tribute to the indomitable spirit of man." Few men, not just fighters, but few men, have an indomitable spirit. Joe Frazier had one. Some men beat Joe Frazier.

    No one ever defeated him. That made him "Smokin' Joe."
    This is possibly the best piece of writing i have ever seen posted here on Saddo. Marble you do a great man proud in capturing the essence of what made Joe Frazier who he was.

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    Default Re: The Greatness of Joe Frazier

    Great thread Marble.joe Frazier was one hell of a fighter ,olympic gold medalist,Heavyweight champion, he beat the greatest, the best left hook ever, and was the best body punching Heavyweight i have ever seen , a true boxing legend.

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    Default Re: The Greatness of Joe Frazier

    Yep - born in grinding and abject poverty as the son of a sharecropper in Beaufort, North Carolina, Frazier's rise to fame and respect came at a price he was willing to pay. As a boy, Frazier knew hunger ........ he never really went to school and spent his boyhood working on his family's rural farm. It was there that an accident with a hog gave birth to perhaps the most feared weapon in boxing history. Frazier's left arm was never able to straighten afterwards, forcing him to limit most of his left sided work to THAT hook. Typically of the man, he turned that disability into a genuine Exocet of a punch. Short, fast, vicious; everything about Joe Frazier's style was planned to deliver that wrecking ball. Take four punches, shake his head, walk on through the storm and leve his opponent twitching on the canvas. It was never a long way back to Beaufort, and Joe was determined he wouldnt be going back there anytime soon.

    At 15 Frazier travelled north to seek his future, married young, and with a son to care for, he worked in a succession of lowly paid jobs. It was Frazier who inspired Sylvester Stallone to include the meat-punching scenes in Rocky (Frazier worked in a slaughterhouse for a while, prompting a journalise to say that "he worked like he fought, up to his elbows in blood and tripe".) Joe started to attend a local boxing gym where he was noticed by the legendary Yancy Durham and Eddie Futch (it was Futch who christened one of the most famous nicknames in boxing "boy, when Joe hit that bag, he really smokin'")

    Fraziers life as the Underdog started from birth, and followed him through his boxing career and his life. He was small for a heavyweight, he was not graceful, he didnt have great skills, he couldn't unbend his left arm and (he kept this secret) he was already nearly blind in one eye. He got outpointed by Buster Mathis for the heavyweight berth for the '64 Olympics but got into the team after Mathis got injured. Joe came home with the gold medal and a broken hand, that meant he had to go back to the slaughterhouse.

    Slowly, he perfected his relentless style. A slow starter, Joe would hit turbo in the middle rounds and literally crush his opponents with his aggression and THAT left hook. Nobody ever got a rest against Joe, he was in your face for three minutes a round and probably viewed the minute break between rounds as a concession to weakness. A genuinely tough, hard man in the ring - something of a pussycat outside.

    He shrewdly avoided the heavyweight unification tournament after Cassius Clay (as he was) was stripped of his title, and secured a bout with the eventual winner, Jimmy Ellis (a long term sparring partner and neighbour of Ali in Louisville). In the fifth round, Frazier grunted audibly and nearly broke Ellis in half with a left hook.

    Smokin Joe Frazier, Heavyweight Champion of the World.

    Even then, the infuriating sound 'Ali Ali Ali' would drift down from the stands and Frazier knew he had to take on and beat his nemesis.

    A decent man, Frazier was a good champion. he was never in trouble, he didnt fool around with other women, spending his time training or singing (badly) with his band The Knockouts. It was about now that he got to know Ali, the two were civil and Joe even helped Ali out financially.

    We all know about the malevolence Ali showed Frazier in public, it was unusual as he usually had a tongue firmly in his cheek when berating opponents to sell tickets. The truth is that Frazier scared Ali, perhaps more than anyone since Sonny Liston and more than anyone since then. Under the influence of the potty Nation of Islam, this was not one of Muhammad's finest moments. Frazier struggled to cope with the torment and he took it deeply deeply personally. I don't think Frazier would have been competitive with Ali in their third fight unless he was fuelled by a deep wellspring of anger and hatred. I hope he got over it eventually, but I'm not sure.

    What he did do was administer a comprehensive beating to Ali in the Fight of the Century. He battered Ali from post to post, won a unanimous and wide points victory and punctuated it by splattering Ali to the floor with, surprise surprise, a vicious left hook. It had been a long hard road, but Smokin Joe was the best fighter on the planet.

    Fighting the way he did, Joe's career was never going to be a long one and he was effectively finished well before he eventually retired. The crushing defeat to Foreman stands out but history now tells us there was no shame in losing to an internationally qualified bone fide monster like George. The truth is that Foreman's style was all wrong for Joe ...... he would push him out of range and wing away with those wide punches that Joe coundn't even see coming. George simply has Frazier's number. The measure of the man was that kept getting up and he wouldn't be kept on the canvas as long as he had marrow in his bones. When Joe got knocked down, you could hear ever fibre of his being screaming at him "GET UP GET UP GET UP"

    In his old age he fell upon hard times, and was reduced to living above the gym he ran in Philadelphia until 2007 (I think). He never lost his bitterness towards Ali, his nemesis, the man who seeped through his life.

    I would think that Ali too is missing a part of his life today - because Ali without Frazier is like Borg without McEnroe, the one defined the other and brought out the very best of them under adversity, Joe Frazier defined Muhammad Ali as a fighter, and Ali defined Frazier. It is that symbiosis that created and nurtered the greatest rivalry in the history of sport, Ever. Period.

    Smokin Joe Frazier, who defined what a Philly fighter should be, the roughest, toughest, hardest most relentlessly aggressive heavyweight in living memory ....... and a loving father and faithful husband. The world has lost a true legend, a reminder of a time long gone.

    Get up there Joe, lace em up and see how you do against the Brown Bomber, The Rock and Manassa Jack. I don't know what would happen in the best sparring sessions of all time ........ but I do know you won't take a backwards step.

    Rest in peace, Champ.
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    Default Re: The Greatness of Joe Frazier

    Quote Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui View Post
    Some men beat Joe Frazier.

    No one ever defeated him. That made him "Smokin' Joe."
    I know you're trying to be poetic, but that doesn't really mesh well with the two whippings Big George gave him.

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    Default Re: The Greatness of Joe Frazier

    Being a great fighter is not what Joe was all about because Ali and Foreman defeated him but it was the effort, the great effort and the crowd getting so much in one fight at a time from a man who wanted the greatness prize and gave blood to get it.

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    Default Re: The Greatness of Joe Frazier

    Very nice couple of pieces there guys. Well done and much respect.

    Terrible loss and one that mentally sits you down and leaves you staring inward a bit. Reflection can be blinding while sobering. He was a genuine man who left people and fans fulfilled. The country has lost a piece of an era and -we- have lost a pillar of this society and this great sport of boxing. They better build a second headstone for his heart alone.

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    Default Re: The Greatness of Joe Frazier

    He beat the greatest fighter of all time in their prime. Doesnt get any better than that

    RIP Joe Frazier.

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    Default Re: The Greatness of Joe Frazier

    R I P Joe Frazier Champion on Earth and a Champion in Heaven.

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    Default Re: The Greatness of Joe Frazier

    Quote Originally Posted by X View Post
    Yep - born in grinding and abject poverty as the son of a sharecropper in Beaufort, North Carolina, Frazier's rise to fame and respect came at a price he was willing to pay. As a boy, Frazier knew hunger ........ he never really went to school and spent his boyhood working on his family's rural farm. It was there that an accident with a hog gave birth to perhaps the most feared weapon in boxing history. Frazier's left arm was never able to straighten afterwards, forcing him to limit most of his left sided work to THAT hook. Typically of the man, he turned that disability into a genuine Exocet of a punch. Short, fast, vicious; everything about Joe Frazier's style was planned to deliver that wrecking ball. Take four punches, shake his head, walk on through the storm and leve his opponent twitching on the canvas. It was never a long way back to Beaufort, and Joe was determined he wouldnt be going back there anytime soon.

    At 15 Frazier travelled north to seek his future, married young, and with a son to care for, he worked in a succession of lowly paid jobs. It was Frazier who inspired Sylvester Stallone to include the meat-punching scenes in Rocky (Frazier worked in a slaughterhouse for a while, prompting a journalise to say that "he worked like he fought, up to his elbows in blood and tripe".) Joe started to attend a local boxing gym where he was noticed by the legendary Yancy Durham and Eddie Futch (it was Futch who christened one of the most famous nicknames in boxing "boy, when Joe hit that bag, he really smokin'")

    Fraziers life as the Underdog started from birth, and followed him through his boxing career and his life. He was small for a heavyweight, he was not graceful, he didnt have great skills, he couldn't unbend his left arm and (he kept this secret) he was already nearly blind in one eye. He got outpointed by Buster Mathis for the heavyweight berth for the '64 Olympics but got into the team after Mathis got injured. Joe came home with the gold medal and a broken hand, that meant he had to go back to the slaughterhouse.

    Slowly, he perfected his relentless style. A slow starter, Joe would hit turbo in the middle rounds and literally crush his opponents with his aggression and THAT left hook. Nobody ever got a rest against Joe, he was in your face for three minutes a round and probably viewed the minute break between rounds as a concession to weakness. A genuinely tough, hard man in the ring - something of a pussycat outside.

    He shrewdly avoided the heavyweight unification tournament after Cassius Clay (as he was) was stripped of his title, and secured a bout with the eventual winner, Jimmy Ellis (a long term sparring partner and neighbour of Ali in Louisville). In the fifth round, Frazier grunted audibly and nearly broke Ellis in half with a left hook.

    Smokin Joe Frazier, Heavyweight Champion of the World.

    Even then, the infuriating sound 'Ali Ali Ali' would drift down from the stands and Frazier knew he had to take on and beat his nemesis.

    A decent man, Frazier was a good champion. he was never in trouble, he didnt fool around with other women, spending his time training or singing (badly) with his band The Knockouts. It was about now that he got to know Ali, the two were civil and Joe even helped Ali out financially.

    We all know about the malevolence Ali showed Frazier in public, it was unusual as he usually had a tongue firmly in his cheek when berating opponents to sell tickets. The truth is that Frazier scared Ali, perhaps more than anyone since Sonny Liston and more than anyone since then. Under the influence of the potty Nation of Islam, this was not one of Muhammad's finest moments. Frazier struggled to cope with the torment and he took it deeply deeply personally. I don't think Frazier would have been competitive with Ali in their third fight unless he was fuelled by a deep wellspring of anger and hatred. I hope he got over it eventually, but I'm not sure.

    What he did do was administer a comprehensive beating to Ali in the Fight of the Century. He battered Ali from post to post, won a unanimous and wide points victory and punctuated it by splattering Ali to the floor with, surprise surprise, a vicious left hook. It had been a long hard road, but Smokin Joe was the best fighter on the planet.

    Fighting the way he did, Joe's career was never going to be a long one and he was effectively finished well before he eventually retired. The crushing defeat to Foreman stands out but history now tells us there was no shame in losing to an internationally qualified bone fide monster like George. The truth is that Foreman's style was all wrong for Joe ...... he would push him out of range and wing away with those wide punches that Joe coundn't even see coming. George simply has Frazier's number. The measure of the man was that kept getting up and he wouldn't be kept on the canvas as long as he had marrow in his bones. When Joe got knocked down, you could hear ever fibre of his being screaming at him "GET UP GET UP GET UP"

    In his old age he fell upon hard times, and was reduced to living above the gym he ran in Philadelphia until 2007 (I think). He never lost his bitterness towards Ali, his nemesis, the man who seeped through his life.

    I would think that Ali too is missing a part of his life today - because Ali without Frazier is like Borg without McEnroe, the one defined the other and brought out the very best of them under adversity, Joe Frazier defined Muhammad Ali as a fighter, and Ali defined Frazier. It is that symbiosis that created and nurtered the greatest rivalry in the history of sport, Ever. Period.

    Smokin Joe Frazier, who defined what a Philly fighter should be, the roughest, toughest, hardest most relentlessly aggressive heavyweight in living memory ....... and a loving father and faithful husband. The world has lost a true legend, a reminder of a time long gone.

    Get up there Joe, lace em up and see how you do against the Brown Bomber, The Rock and Manassa Jack. I don't know what would happen in the best sparring sessions of all time ........ but I do know you won't take a backwards step.

    Rest in peace, Champ.
    That was a spectacular post. Thank you!

    Like you, I hope Joe passed without any bitterness in him. He deserved to be at peace.
    Hidden Content Bring me the best and I will knock them out-Alexis Arguello
    I'm not God, but I am something similar-Robert Duran

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    Default Re: The Greatness of Joe Frazier

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    Very nice couple of pieces there guys. Well done and much respect.

    Terrible loss and one that mentally sits you down and leaves you staring inward a bit. Reflection can be blinding while sobering. He was a genuine man who left people and fans fulfilled. The country has lost a piece of an era and -we- have lost a pillar of this society and this great sport of boxing. They better build a second headstone for his heart alone.
    It really does leave one staring inward doesn't it? I was shocked at just how sad I was when I heard Frazier was in his last days. The magnificence of his efforts touched me even more than I thought they had.
    Hidden Content Bring me the best and I will knock them out-Alexis Arguello
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    Brilliant Articles on the Legend that was Smokin Joe. I met him once and he was a real Gent. Humble and Proud. A real life Rocky, that was Joe. There should be Statues of this guy in America, as an example to what hard work and determination can do. RIP Champ.

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    Default Re: The Greatness of Joe Frazier

    Quote Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by X View Post
    Yep - born in grinding and abject poverty as the son of a sharecropper in Beaufort, North Carolina, Frazier's rise to fame and respect came at a price he was willing to pay. As a boy, Frazier knew hunger ........ he never really went to school and spent his boyhood working on his family's rural farm. It was there that an accident with a hog gave birth to perhaps the most feared weapon in boxing history. Frazier's left arm was never able to straighten afterwards, forcing him to limit most of his left sided work to THAT hook. Typically of the man, he turned that disability into a genuine Exocet of a punch. Short, fast, vicious; everything about Joe Frazier's style was planned to deliver that wrecking ball. Take four punches, shake his head, walk on through the storm and leve his opponent twitching on the canvas. It was never a long way back to Beaufort, and Joe was determined he wouldnt be going back there anytime soon.

    At 15 Frazier travelled north to seek his future, married young, and with a son to care for, he worked in a succession of lowly paid jobs. It was Frazier who inspired Sylvester Stallone to include the meat-punching scenes in Rocky (Frazier worked in a slaughterhouse for a while, prompting a journalise to say that "he worked like he fought, up to his elbows in blood and tripe".) Joe started to attend a local boxing gym where he was noticed by the legendary Yancy Durham and Eddie Futch (it was Futch who christened one of the most famous nicknames in boxing "boy, when Joe hit that bag, he really smokin'")

    Fraziers life as the Underdog started from birth, and followed him through his boxing career and his life. He was small for a heavyweight, he was not graceful, he didnt have great skills, he couldn't unbend his left arm and (he kept this secret) he was already nearly blind in one eye. He got outpointed by Buster Mathis for the heavyweight berth for the '64 Olympics but got into the team after Mathis got injured. Joe came home with the gold medal and a broken hand, that meant he had to go back to the slaughterhouse.

    Slowly, he perfected his relentless style. A slow starter, Joe would hit turbo in the middle rounds and literally crush his opponents with his aggression and THAT left hook. Nobody ever got a rest against Joe, he was in your face for three minutes a round and probably viewed the minute break between rounds as a concession to weakness. A genuinely tough, hard man in the ring - something of a pussycat outside.

    He shrewdly avoided the heavyweight unification tournament after Cassius Clay (as he was) was stripped of his title, and secured a bout with the eventual winner, Jimmy Ellis (a long term sparring partner and neighbour of Ali in Louisville). In the fifth round, Frazier grunted audibly and nearly broke Ellis in half with a left hook.

    Smokin Joe Frazier, Heavyweight Champion of the World.

    Even then, the infuriating sound 'Ali Ali Ali' would drift down from the stands and Frazier knew he had to take on and beat his nemesis.

    A decent man, Frazier was a good champion. he was never in trouble, he didnt fool around with other women, spending his time training or singing (badly) with his band The Knockouts. It was about now that he got to know Ali, the two were civil and Joe even helped Ali out financially.

    We all know about the malevolence Ali showed Frazier in public, it was unusual as he usually had a tongue firmly in his cheek when berating opponents to sell tickets. The truth is that Frazier scared Ali, perhaps more than anyone since Sonny Liston and more than anyone since then. Under the influence of the potty Nation of Islam, this was not one of Muhammad's finest moments. Frazier struggled to cope with the torment and he took it deeply deeply personally. I don't think Frazier would have been competitive with Ali in their third fight unless he was fuelled by a deep wellspring of anger and hatred. I hope he got over it eventually, but I'm not sure.

    What he did do was administer a comprehensive beating to Ali in the Fight of the Century. He battered Ali from post to post, won a unanimous and wide points victory and punctuated it by splattering Ali to the floor with, surprise surprise, a vicious left hook. It had been a long hard road, but Smokin Joe was the best fighter on the planet.

    Fighting the way he did, Joe's career was never going to be a long one and he was effectively finished well before he eventually retired. The crushing defeat to Foreman stands out but history now tells us there was no shame in losing to an internationally qualified bone fide monster like George. The truth is that Foreman's style was all wrong for Joe ...... he would push him out of range and wing away with those wide punches that Joe coundn't even see coming. George simply has Frazier's number. The measure of the man was that kept getting up and he wouldn't be kept on the canvas as long as he had marrow in his bones. When Joe got knocked down, you could hear ever fibre of his being screaming at him "GET UP GET UP GET UP"

    In his old age he fell upon hard times, and was reduced to living above the gym he ran in Philadelphia until 2007 (I think). He never lost his bitterness towards Ali, his nemesis, the man who seeped through his life.

    I would think that Ali too is missing a part of his life today - because Ali without Frazier is like Borg without McEnroe, the one defined the other and brought out the very best of them under adversity, Joe Frazier defined Muhammad Ali as a fighter, and Ali defined Frazier. It is that symbiosis that created and nurtered the greatest rivalry in the history of sport, Ever. Period.

    Smokin Joe Frazier, who defined what a Philly fighter should be, the roughest, toughest, hardest most relentlessly aggressive heavyweight in living memory ....... and a loving father and faithful husband. The world has lost a true legend, a reminder of a time long gone.

    Get up there Joe, lace em up and see how you do against the Brown Bomber, The Rock and Manassa Jack. I don't know what would happen in the best sparring sessions of all time ........ but I do know you won't take a backwards step.

    Rest in peace, Champ.
    That was a spectacular post. Thank you!

    Like you, I hope Joe passed without any bitterness in him. He deserved to be at peace.
    Joe still had his hatred for Ali, that never went away. He's watching Ali right now, waiting for him to roll passed an open staircase.

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    I can understand Fraziers anger with Ali. Ali showed no class as a man with some of the ridiculous baiting he threw at Frazier.

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