Ok.... so what do you REALLY think?

[TitoFan]

We argue endlessly about all kinds of issues. Seems like boxing takes a backseat nowadays.
So how do you really feel about certain issues? This is the place to let it all hang out.
I'll start.

North Korea

Most of the civilized world is sick and tired of this barking chihuahua of a country. Little bite..... lots of bark. NK has an isolationist history, only denied by those brainwashed to think differently. Kim Jong-un is probably the most unfit country leader in the history of mankind, which is not unusual for a twisted child who gets handed the reigns of his country by inheritance. Nowadays, it's all about daily provocation. Nuclear strike threats, lobbying missiles over Japan in so-called tests, etc. Allies like China and, well........ China must be secretly seething inside at the amount of barking being done by NK.

Trump is probably not the best U.S. President at handling NK right now, as none of us actually wants a nuclear war..... but NK's provocation of the U.S. goes back waaaay before Trump. Just about every other POTUS has had to deal with that annoying rash which is North Korea. I only wish we had a more Presidential figure up there. Someone like JFK or even Reagan, who would deal from a position of strength, but at the same time know how to diffuse what is a dangerous situation.


Race Relations in the U.S.

Shit is boiling over out of control. There's blame to go around, but Trump doesn't get off scot-free, IMO. If anything, things have gotten worse under Trump. IMO, he dropped the ball after Charlottsville, emboldening these useless groups (KKK, Neo-Nazis, etc) to protest more and be more outspoken. Yeah, yeah, yeah...... Antifa and other leftists bent on destroying Trump are almost as bad, throwing gasoline on the hot embers. But the POTUS is there to do everything in his power to try and unify the country. He's not doing a good enough job.


Climate Change

I think Trump fucked up when he took the U.S. out of the Paris Accord. Again.... as with North Korea..... when the whole world sees it one way, and you're the only one who sees it another...... you know you're wrong. There was no damn good reason for Trump to do that. To hell with what other countries are or are not doing. There were ways around some of Trump's objections. Hell..... even prominent CEO's from across all industries criticized the shit out of Trump for doing that. But the dumbass did it anyway. It may not be the doomsday scenario some climate change extremists are saying (extremists ruin every single fucking argument). But it's also not like the ostrich-head-in-the-sand deniers are saying, where they pooh-pooh any study or numbers that get published by the scientific community. Again..... extremists are going to be the downfall of society.


U.S. foreign policy

I've always said: There's no good reason for the U.S. to intervene in every single, solitary conflict across the globe. Nobody voted for the U.S. to be the world's policemen. But again..... you gotta take each incident on its own merits. 9/11? Resulting wars on Afghanistan and Iraq? Got no problem with those. Other wars? Not so much. The dividing line is whether American interests or national security is at stake.


Gun control in the U.S.

Once again... I've never advocated complete gun bans in the U.S., but I think they do a poor job of putting in the controls they need to keep the occasional shooting spree massacre from happening. The right to own guns isn't the same as the right to get a driver's licence to drive a car. Not everyone is fit to own a gun. Most shooting sprees are a result of mental issues. Not enough is being done to screen potential basket cases (and/or family members) when doing background checks. Gun laws should be federal, not State-dependent. It's a mockery of the law to be able to drive across State lines to get more lenient gun laws. Types of guns should also be controlled. Love of guns aside, no one needs an automatic rifle to protect their home and family. No one needs a virtual armory in their home to protect their loved ones.


Anyway... there's more. But those are some of the ones off the top of my head.

[El Kabong]

North Korea: I think they have a poor starved brainwashed population and a brutal leader who wants to be seen as a big strong leader to his people whom he starves. I believe that many North Koreans would do ANYTHING for lil Kim which makes him and his nation very dangerous especially since they have nuclear ability and are perfecting their rocketry. Let's be real, China and Russia keep them in check for the most part. I certainly don't want a Korean War take 2, but I would like to see 1 Korea just as I wanted 1 Germany.


Race Relations in the U.S.: Well things SHOULD be better than they ever have been considering where we started from as a nation. Slavery is the original sin of the United States, but it's not something we shoulder alone (unless we're picking and choosing who we're angry at). There's plenty of people who want "the race issue" (like there is just one) solved and there's plenty of people who want to bring up more racial issues because they are of the belief so common these days "Everything is racist, everything is sexist...blah blah blah social justice"....I'm not a fan of "Social Justice" as I believe it skews and perverts the more important JUSTICE. Justice on it's own has no agenda but the truth, Social Justice has many strings attached and has some very convoluted views/beliefs. As Americans we should unite together and although we're never all going to agree we should at the very least be able to tolerate dissent sure there are idiots who believe in some very stupid shit but it's a free country they can hold any beliefs they want.


Climate Change: The Climate is always changing the crux of this should be "Are humans the cause?" and judging from how the people who believe that humans are THE cause of Climate Change ACT they don't even believe the shit they talk. If Al Gore believed humans were the cause of Climate Change then why would he be flying all over the world in private jets? Leo DiCaprio does the same thing! Where have they cut back on their Carbon Footprints? Oh they buy "Carbon Offsets" which are the greenies versions of the Catholic Church allowing for followers to buy indulgences and guess who the money goes to? AL GORE! Weren't we told that hurricanes would be bigger deadlier make landfall more often? Hurricane Harvey bad as it has been is the first Hurricane to make landfall in like 12 years....and newsflash some of the Southeastern states NEED the rain produced by those big storms every so often. Also if Climate Change is anthropogenic why would other planets warm along with Earth? http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...s-warming.html ......but whatever.

U.S. foreign policy: In some ways we do very well, in other ways we do very poorly it kind of depends on history, current events, ties to other foreign nations. It's not perfect but it's not ALL bad. I mean the same foreign policy that dropped 2 nukes on Japan carried out the Marshall Plan sooo there ya have it.


Gun control in the U.S.: The laws on the books should be the ones followed and every law abiding legal citizen should be allowed to protect themselves and their property in the manner they see fit. Accidental deaths can be quelled by MORE education on firearms. Gang deaths can be lessened by an end to the War on Drugs. School shootings (it's been a little while actually...I fear we're due for another one) can be stopped by armed School Resource Officers, metal detectors, and attempting to establish more connections in the community which unite people together.




But those are the rantings and ravings of a madman

[El Kabong]

Is nobody else answering this?

Sissies

[Master]

I will, but need some time.

[Beanz]

We argue endlessly about all kinds of issues. Seems like boxing takes a backseat nowadays.
So how do you really feel about certain issues? This is the place to let it all hang out.
I'll start.

North Korea

Most of the civilized world is sick and tired of this barking chihuahua of a country. Little bite..... lots of bark. NK has an isolationist history, only denied by those brainwashed to think differently. Kim Jong-un is probably the most unfit country leader in the history of mankind, which is not unusual for a twisted child who gets handed the reigns of his country by inheritance. Nowadays, it's all about daily provocation. Nuclear strike threats, lobbying missiles over Japan in so-called tests, etc. Allies like China and, well........ China must be secretly seething inside at the amount of barking being done by NK.
Most of the world? This is from your standpoint in which you have opened up an argument by defeating yourself. If North Korea really is all bark and no bite, then what are you worried about? It is also ironic that under Trump the most isolationist President in history you are condemning NK for the same thing. In fact Trumps insistence on undermining his own staff and threatening South Korea with jeopardising trade deals a a time like this puts him firmly in the camp of being just as spoilt as Kim Jong-Un. For Trump is a spoilt brat whose every utterance is defined by the hyperbole that makes him just as unfit material for a world leader. For the Donald if it is not "great" or "beautiful" it is "terrible" or "the worst". Nothing apparently is Trumps fault. IT is the fault of the opposition (The Democrats) or the fault of his own party that he is supposedly failing to lead.
Trump is probably not the best U.S. President at handling NK right now, as none of us actually wants a nuclear war..... but NK's provocation of the U.S. goes back waaaay before Trump. Just about every other POTUS has had to deal with that annoying rash which is North Korea. I only wish we had a more Presidential figure up there. Someone like JFK or even Reagan, who would deal from a position of strength, but at the same time know how to diffuse what is a dangerous situation.
You are correct in your assertion that Trumps lack of consistency, something that should define being presidential is not helping things. What is not also helping things is continuing to pretend that the US and other western nations are a special case. NK has just tested another Nuclear Bomb that makes in the Nuclear explosion weapon testing the tally so far

North Korea = 6
The United States = 1, 054

Does that make what NK is doing or the dictatorial nature of the regime right? Of course not but let's not pretend that there is a huge double standard being imposed here



Race Relations in the U.S.

Shit is boiling over out of control. There's blame to go around, but Trump doesn't get off scot-free, IMO. If anything, things have gotten worse under Trump. IMO, he dropped the ball after Charlottsville, emboldening these useless groups (KKK, Neo-Nazis, etc) to protest more and be more outspoken. Yeah, yeah, yeah...... Antifa and other leftists bent on destroying Trump are almost as bad, throwing gasoline on the hot embers. But the POTUS is there to do everything in his power to try and unify the country. He's not doing a good enough job.


I do not live in the states and we do not have a history of segregation here so I will try and be brief. The Charlottesville issue seems to be one where a certain section of the country felt emboldened and empowered to rear their ugly head. The same in a lesser degree has happened post the Brexit vote. Those extreme right wing racists will use the desire for less immigration as an excuse to parade their own bigotted views out in the open. That does not make people who voted for Trump in America racist or those who voted for Brexit her racist. What is unavoidably true though is that those people with far right views who wish to rid the countries they live in of non white, non Christian people are the same people who voted for less immigration for very different reasons than the moderates. The problem with the breakdown, and reporting of it, is that the same people who are blaming the supposed PC media for lumping all the right wing protesters in with the KKK and Nazis are insisting on the right to do the same with those using their democratic right to counter protest. Antifa is by definition a disparate group of anti fascist direct action groups with similar aims. Remember also that the antifa groups were outnumbered by what you would call moderate (non violent) protesters on the left and the far right groups on that day outnumbered the moderate right wing groups. This is why I think people were dismayed at Trumps simplistic breakdown and his refusal to introduce any complexity to his argument or risk losing voters even if it meant not directly condemning Nazis and the KKK until he was forced to.
Climate Change

I think Trump fucked up when he took the U.S. out of the Paris Accord. Again.... as with North Korea..... when the whole world sees it one way, and you're the only one who sees it another...... you know you're wrong. There was no damn good reason for Trump to do that. To hell with what other countries are or are not doing. There were ways around some of Trump's objections. Hell..... even prominent CEO's from across all industries criticized the shit out of Trump for doing that. But the dumbass did it anyway. It may not be the doomsday scenario some climate change extremists are saying (extremists ruin every single fucking argument). But it's also not like the ostrich-head-in-the-sand deniers are saying, where they pooh-pooh any study or numbers that get published by the scientific community. Again..... extremists are going to be the downfall of society.

Again another example of double standards. Those who are so eager to deny that mankind has anything to do with climate change seem to think that pointing out the hypocrisy of people like Gore strengthens their own argument which is empirically wrong. To think that the overwhelming majority of Scientists studying the data would be so wrong and all part of a conspiracy is just wishful thinking by blowhards who have little else to offer an argument but a impulsion to play Devil's Advocate for the sake of it.
U.S. foreign policy

I've always said: There's no good reason for the U.S. to intervene in every single, solitary conflict across the globe. Nobody voted for the U.S. to be the world's policemen. But again..... you gotta take each incident on its own merits. 9/11? Resulting wars on Afghanistan and Iraq? Got no problem with those. Other wars? Not so much. The dividing line is whether American interests or national security is at stake.


Again I think you are mistaken if you believe America is safer after waging war in Afghanistan and Iraq. US foreign policy much like that of the UK is intertwined with propping up despotic regimes and making huge amounts of money selling arms. It is not a black and white issue but the ability of Obama to take out Bin Laden shows tha special forces are more than capable of taking out individuals and that bombing civilians is usually inexcusable.
Gun control in the U.S.

Once again... I've never advocated complete gun bans in the U.S., but I think they do a poor job of putting in the controls they need to keep the occasional shooting spree massacre from happening. The right to own guns isn't the same as the right to get a driver's licence to drive a car. Not everyone is fit to own a gun. Most shooting sprees are a result of mental issues. Not enough is being done to screen potential basket cases (and/or family members) when doing background checks. Gun laws should be federal, not State-dependent. It's a mockery of the law to be able to drive across State lines to get more lenient gun laws. Types of guns should also be controlled. Love of guns aside, no one needs an automatic rifle to protect their home and family. No one needs a virtual armory in their home to protect their loved ones.
This is an issue for your own country. Again though there are the odd few advocates who refuse to see nuance and are so vested in their desire to impose what they think is my way or the highway they will even suggest that atrocities in other countries could be avoided if only everyone was armed. In the UK we like a fight. Believe me if we were all armed the population would probably halve overnight. It is not a good idea for us but then hunting is not huge here and those that wish to can use guns to hunt.

Anyway... there's more. But those are some of the ones off the top of my head.

I apologise to @El Kabong in advance

[TitoFan]

@Beanz

What sets you and Miles apart from a few of us on NK, and on U.S. foreign policy is simple.

Neither of you is willing to accept what most other countries know for a fact. That NK is the global equivalent of a rabid chihuahua.... barking at the bigger dogs and demanding equal footing on the world stage. The chihuahua will bite. It may not do too much damage. And if it bites a bigger dog that will probably be the end of the chihuahua. But its temperament make it one of the world's less liked dogs. Pretty much the same with NK. Problem is, both you and Miles are so bent on criticizing Trump, that you go as far as excusing NK to do it. That's your prerogative of course, but it's wrong, IMO. I on the other hand, can do both. Criticize the hell out of Trump..... then turn around and do the same with NK. Facts stand on their own merit, such as Miles justifying NK threats to nuke Guam because the U.S. hasn't built a light water reactor for them yet. Yeah... makes a lot of sense. The only thing that justifies using nukes against innocent people is if you yourself are threatened with nukes first. I've yet to see you or Miles quote Trump as doing exactly that, particularly before Kim Jong-un made his own threats.

On U.S. foreign policy, we're probably not that far apart without actually realizing it. The U.S. is perfectly capable of dressing something up as "national security", and use it as an excuse to invade or attack another country. When in reality there are more likely powerful economic interests involved. So nowhere will you see me defend most of U.S. interventions in other parts of the world. Personally, I think the U.S. would be better served to spend its billions at home, helping people in need, and financing programs that benefit its citizens. However, to criticize the U.S. for going after Osama and terrorists in general after 9-11 is a bit shortsighted and ignorant, IMO. No country in the world would've turned the other cheek after an attack like that. Unless of course you belong to the group of conspiracy theorists who probably think the U.S. attacked itself to have an excuse to go attack someone else.

[TitoFan]

What's amazing about these attempts to defend NK is that they're all fueled by U.S. foreign policy and/or Trump hate. Were we discussing NK in any other framework, it would be a slam dunk argument that NK is that pesky little global wannabe bully with unrealistically lofty goals of global grandeur. To compare the amount of nuclear bomb tests between NK and the U.S. is frankly...... well..... shortsighted is too kind a word. Really? We're going to go there? You're going to compare nuclear capabilities of the most powerful nation in the world, with a dictatorial regime with Napoleonic complexes? Wow. I'd say apples and oranges, but it's more like apples and beef stew.

If Trump was the first and only POTUS to have issues with NK, I'd say ok... maybe you've got a sliver of a case. But he isn't.... and you don't.

[Beanz]

People love chihuahuas. They have a lot of heart.


Neither myself or Miles have defended NK. You have to say that in order to legitimize Trump threatening them with fire and fury.

1054 Nuclear tests and you think Trump has the right to bring about WW3 because of somebody conducting 6 ?

[brocktonblockbust]

People love chihuahuas. They have a lot of heart.


Neither myself or Miles have defended NK. You have to say that in order to legitimize Trump threatening them with fire and fury.

1054 Nuclear tests and you think Trump has the right to bring about WW3 because of somebody conducting 6 ?

You dumbass has Donald Trump said he was going to put a hydrogen bomb in a missile and launch it at New York City or Paris or Frankfurt ? and has he then launched several missiles over for example Pakistan or Japan or Vietnam or Australia over their airspace? You don't even know what you're comparing anymore

[Gandalf]

@Beanz

What sets you and Miles apart from a few of us on NK, and on U.S. foreign policy is simple.

Neither of you is willing to accept what most other countries know for a fact. That NK is the global equivalent of a rabid chihuahua.... barking at the bigger dogs and demanding equal footing on the world stage. The chihuahua will bite. It may not do too much damage. And if it bites a bigger dog that will probably be the end of the chihuahua. But its temperament make it one of the world's less liked dogs. Pretty much the same with NK. Problem is, both you and Miles are so bent on criticizing Trump, that you go as far as excusing NK to do it. That's your prerogative of course, but it's wrong, IMO. I on the other hand, can do both. Criticize the hell out of Trump..... then turn around and do the same with NK. Facts stand on their own merit, such as Miles justifying NK threats to nuke Guam because the U.S. hasn't built a light water reactor for them yet. Yeah... makes a lot of sense. The only thing that justifies using nukes against innocent people is if you yourself are threatened with nukes first. I've yet to see you or Miles quote Trump as doing exactly that, particularly before Kim Jong-un made his own threats.

On U.S. foreign policy, we're probably not that far apart without actually realizing it. The U.S. is perfectly capable of dressing something up as "national security", and use it as an excuse to invade or attack another country. When in reality there are more likely powerful economic interests involved. So nowhere will you see me defend most of U.S. interventions in other parts of the world. Personally, I think the U.S. would be better served to spend its billions at home, helping people in need, and financing programs that benefit its citizens. However, to criticize the U.S. for going after Osama and terrorists in general after 9-11 is a bit shortsighted and ignorant, IMO. No country in the world would've turned the other cheek after an attack like that. Unless of course you belong to the group of conspiracy theorists who probably think the U.S. attacked itself to have an excuse to go attack someone else.

One post to humour you, Tito. Yes, I will preface your response by saying that yes, yes, yes, I like hot drinks, like jackets etc. Very droll.

I said that the US broke the terms of the 1994 deal thus reneging on any agreement. North Korea at that point had as much right to develop its weapons just as the US had, Pakistan had, Israel had etc. Do I like it? No. Do I like the North Korean regime? No? However, a nation has the right to defend its borders. Trump is testing nukes and expanding the arsenal. Nobody advocates sanctions, nobody cares. You do not think I would prefer a region without nukes, without military bases etc?

The threat to throw rockets into the sea around Guam was a response to the imposed sanctions. Were sanctions applied to the US and the UK after Iraq? Were sanctions applied to Israel after the Gaza massacre? Are sanctions applied to Saudi Arabia now for its actions in Yemen? No. All I do is point out the double standards.

Do I like countries threatening one another? No. However, you all have double standards when it comes to all of these issues. The thing is if you try to argue a point with you your default mode is to call someone an apologist or a hater and then launch personal vitriol. You do not seem to actually know how to discuss an issue. You then make up things like me saying a lack of reactors was a reason to nuke someone. I never said that.

Several times I made the point that actual bombs are killing actual people in the world and that that is more meaningful that than threats to do so. Both are wrong, but it's a bit strange having a country with hundreds of nuke tests, thousands of nukes, actual use of nukes and actual bombs killing people, country toppling one after the other, and for you to sit there like butter wouldn't melt and say it is hating to point out that it is odd for that nation to call out another or sanction them over a weapons program. That's where you cannot have a discussion, because you do not want to hear it. It's easier to call someone a hater and call them a few names.

That's why I do not want to post. It is basically this and loads of threads arguing for nukes. I thought we were a little community able to accomodate and discuss and fall out sometimes, but lately it has been overkill. How many NK threads does Brock need to start? What does it have to do with him? You are on a little island out there somewhere. How about the regional players handle it themselves? What does it have to do with you? You were the ones pushing for sanctions yet doing drills on their border.

Nuts really. Cognitive dissonance is the technical term.

[brocktonblockbust]

oh what rubbish the latter post, really.

real bombs are falling on real people? what the FUCK does that imply, that the US should not bomb terrorists in Afghanistan/Pakistan? And are those hydrogen bombs? Nuclear even? Are they haphazardly launched over an entire nation with missiles that have a 50% fail/disintegrate ratio and could fall onto a city of 10 million FFS?

talk about comparing apples to oranges, what a fucking fruitcake! (yeah and dredge up a 1945 double atomic blast to somehow bring into a current 2017 situation, that's a real beauty.

[TitoFan]

People love chihuahuas.

The only people I know who actually own chihuahuas are 80-year old women.

Neither myself or Miles have defended NK.

Right. And I have some beachfront property in Oklahoma I'd be interested in selling you both.

1054 Nuclear tests and you think Trump has the right to bring about WW3 because of somebody conducting 6 ?

Oversimplification at its finest..... but you go ahead and continue that train of thought. I'll take the bus.

One post to humour you, Tito. Yes, I will preface your response by saying that yes, yes, yes, I like hot drinks, like jackets etc. Very droll.

For the life of me I can't figure out what the hell does this have to do with anything, but ok. I'd lay off the meth for awhile.

The threat to throw rockets into the sea around Guam

Just like the U.S. dropped nuclear bombs into the sea around Japan in 1945, right?

I'm telling you...... when having lost an argument, you come up with the funniest wording to substitute the truth.

That's where you cannot have a discussion, because you do not want to hear it. It's easier to call someone a hater and call them a few names.

What names have I called you, Miles? Is that another safe space you run to when you have zero argument?

I've called Trump and Jong-un names. I've yet to do the same with you.

[Master]

North Korea

UN led sanctions against them with the support of China to starve them to their senses.

Race Relations in the U.S.

Trump should take the side of anti-racism and not perpetuate the hatred further by condemning the racists that killed the woman.

Climate Change

Trump should sign the Paris Accord.
The individual states should ignore Trump and try and meet their requirements.
U.S. foreign policy

They should have one that support the UN.

Gun control in the U.S.

Phase out gun use through education and tighter restrictions until all guns are banned for civilians.

[brocktonblockbust]

North Korea

UN led sanctions against them with the support of China to starve them to their senses.

Race Relations in the U.S.

Trump should take the side of anti-racism and not perpetuate the hatred further by condemning the racists that killed the woman.

Climate Change

Trump should sign the Paris Accord.
The individual states should ignore Trump and try and meet their requirements.
U.S. foreign policy

They should have one that support the UN.

Gun control in the U.S.

Phase out gun use through education and tighter restrictions until all guns are banned for civilians.

1984

[GaMo]

Somebody should invade North Korea and capture Kim
Then Putin and him should fight hand to hand in a pit
In a fight to the death with a mortal kombat style ending
I wanna see Putin uppercut fat boy onto some spikes.