Mirko: really that great?

[Von Milash]

Let me play the devil's advocate.. hear me out.

Everybody talks about how great mirko is, but I got thinking. It seems to me that he's no greater than any other (top) kickboxer. He has skills, like a top kickboxer should. I simply feel he's one of two guys to bring in a better brand of fighting system, Mark Hunt being the other. I beleive that if other kickboxing greats would transition, Mirko would lose some of his stardom becuase his skills would immediately be matched. Guys like ray Sifo, Jerome LeBanner, Michael McDonald (in his prime), Rick Roufus, etc. are all great fighters arguably equally as skilled as Mirko.

nutshell: mirko is a skilled fighter who took a superior fighting system to pride and used it well, but others could have done the same. Thus, he's not as great as the mma world says; rather, he's simply a good kickboxer fighting against lesser quality fighting systems.

Thoughts?

[Heavy D]

Yes and no.

His LHK is a fight ender, something most others don't have. They can still win the fights, but when that LHK lands (and it lands pretty often), its generally lights out. That can make for a VERY early night for him, even if things had been going poorly.

His takedown defense is INSANE. This lets him actually use his skills. This is something many transitioning can't do as well as him (Mark Hunt being the most notable example...he's not bad, but he can't defend from top level guys). The way to be a better striker has always been to either: 1. Be lucky, or 2. Take him down. You really CAN'T take Mirko down. So they only way to win is to get lucky.

Between the two, THAT's what makes him that great, not just his excellent striking.

[Von Milash]

that's true, and a very good point. His sprawl is outstanding. But again, we really haven't seen what other top kickboxers can do in mma. Or have we? I'm not sure. I wouldn't call Hunt highly talented, he's talented, but with a rock hard head and chin, with huge punching power. Anyone that can knock over Wandy what, 3 times in a fight with a looping punch is damn strong. Another thing, we tend not to see kickboxers land lhk's but that's against other kickboxers. But when Carter Williams through one against Rick Roufus, make no mistake, it would have sent most humans to the mat. I'd really like to see a guy like Williams make the transition. Now, I'm not saying that Mirko isn't grreat, but I'm not quite convinced that others couldn't enjoy his success over time.

I guess what I'm saying is that we massively agree in the notion that great striking is of paramount important, which 99% of all mma'ers lack, but boxers and kickboxers possess, but we disagree a bit that mirko is the only one who could do it. Mirko's just been doing it longer.

I just beleive that kickboxers, TRUE kickboxers..not guys like Liddell, are too good with their fists, and the legs keep the other guy at bay.

53 seconds in and 3:03.

[youtube=425,350]yZBPOgtxWPQ[/youtube]

[Von Milash]

at 2:40 in, he throws that lhk, but being agaist a gook kickboxer, his hands were up. a traditional mma'er, 9 times out of 10, doesn't have his hands up like that. mirko capitalizes on weaker skills.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TMKNYnr09...elated&search=

[JT Rock]

Again I agree but disagree... Crocop is a presicion striker who is very fluid, most Heavies are not with the exception of Fedor... Look at Sylvia and Arlovski.. They are very Mediocre strikers at best and Mirko will be like a big fish in a small pond being in the UFC... I mean a kickboxer is no different than a regular Boxer.. if they are confident and pleased in there art why should they switch....

An effective ground game takes such a long time to master properly its a whole nother art in itself to master... Remy Bonjasky is my favorite Kickboxer he is definetly worldclass but he could do MMA and lose everytime I guess its a matter of personal choice for the athlete which art they want to master and stick with...

As far as Crocop he is definetly by far the 2nd best Heavy in the world to Fedor and then the rest of the field are pretty far behind

[Majesty]

Thats all true if you stand at a distance, but inside is where his weaknesses are which is why McDonald and Randleman caught him.

[VictorCharlie]

CroCop by MMA standards is an awesome striker, and I think why so many people are high on him is b/c he has continued to make him self more and more well rounded. You are correct that Labanner, hoost and mcdonald would be equally as adept at striking but the question is could they make themselves a well rounded fighter which is necessary to compete at the elite MMA level. Chuck is another good example of a former kick boxer(albeit not for very long or nearly as esteemed as Mirko) who improved his overall game through the years to be one of the most dominant fighters in the game. Hunt has always confounded me as a kickboxer. He really doesn't kick very much. He just has a granite chin and hits like a mack truck.

[Heavy D]

I gotta say...in all the kickboxing events I've attended, the best fighters seem to kick enough to not lose points, then do damage with fists. It just seems like most kickboxers concentrate too much on the kick aspect and barely at all on the fist.

[ukgaz]

Another thing to add is that Mirko is extremely quick for a Heavyweight which helps him get out of trouble. Combine that with his sprawl and like has already been said he almost impossible to take down. Can't wait to see him in Manchester in April

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Alexey Ignashov is better

[Von Milash]

I gotta say...in all the kickboxing events I've attended, the best fighters seem to kick enough to not lose points, then do damage with fists. It just seems like most kickboxers concentrate too much on the kick aspect and barely at all on the fist.

did you ever see that fight between Mike McD and the jet? Rick's knee loked like it was going to pop. Literally. I know what you mean though.