More on......Strength training!

[Von Milash]

Ok,

so just when I thought I understood this, I guess I don't.

So, if push-ups aren't max strength, what good are they?

Must you work MAX strength, and if so, how? Do your 1RM?

Let's take the shot put. If you ONLY ever worked with a 10lb ball, would your strength increase such that you could ALWAYS make gains on your distance? I personally feel you'll eventually max out. A shot put is a great example because you need strength to move the object, but hands speed too to help give it distance. So how would you train a shot-putter? Would you put him on a heavier ball, say 15pounds, 20pounds, etc, and then go back to the 10pound ball?



with my cable contraption, do you think I should increase the loads on the bar to my 1RP, or just under? Or, as in the case of Evander H, are lighter loads good for speed development. I read in a report by these guys www.impulsepower.com that POWER comes from the CNS, and lighter loads are better for that.

How do you engage/develop fast twitch muscle? Do we really need fast twitch muscle to punch harder? some say you must do 1RM loads, but your movement will be slow, and we all know that slow/heavy movements do nothing for speed. If that was the case then everyone could break 100m receords simply by doing knee raises with super-ultra heavy (1RM) ankle weights. Or here's another case... if all you ever did was squat super heavy loads then you'd be the greatest standing broad jumer ever. But we know that's not the case as weak/skinny guys can leap bounds over guys with merely strong thighs. ie, olympic high jumers vs muscle heads.

so, I'm confused. But like I said before, I really do feel the gains in power in my left arm, even if my approach (ie, selected loads/reps/sets) isn't perfect. So please enlighten me, oh great MD's, Scraps and all you other kinesiologists. Thanks. cc's in advance.

[Scrap]

Von , one point of interest on your machine as regards throwing the jab. What youre doing is strengthing the right shoulder more than the left without flexability and tightening the dorsals on that side leading to headaches. Id recomend you put a dumbell in the non punching hand the same weight for muscle balance and movement or down the line there could be problems

[Von Milash]

scrap I'm going to buy the cable to interface my video camera and pc this weekend. and wil hopefully have a couple short vids up on youtube by sunday night. the bastards didn't send my textbook on time b/c it was on backorder so I have a lot of reading to do to catch up to the rest of the class otherwise I'd have plenty of time.

If anyone is interested it got 4.5 stars.

http://www.amazon.com/Walking-Talk-B...e=UTF8&s=books

[Jamoie]

A couple of points then.....

No, pushups do not work your max strength. Not directly. A man who does pushups all his life will be able to bench press more than a man who doesnt, but thats just down to stimulating muscle fibers full stop. When you get specialist like we do there are a number of factors concerned.
Why ask if theyre any good, when pushups work muscular endurance, core stability, explosiveness and speed. (with the variations)

Of course if max strength is your main goal, then get off the floor and get onto that bench, but they can be beneficial to boxers.

There is an ever-ongoing argument about the best way to improve your max strength.
Theres the hardcore powerlifters, 1 rep maxing all day, then theres the strength trainers, using programs like the 5x5(look it up, an EXCELLENT (some argue the best) strength training program)

One thing remains constant though, and thats the use of compound and olympic lifts for strength. You want to get strong, squat, deadlift and clean and jerk till you cant stand.

Then, last point, we employ fast twitch muscle fibers by moving heavy objects, fast. EG clap pushups or SHOTPUTTING. We need fast twitch to punch harder because thats exactly what your hand is doing, moving fast.

A shotputter throws a 10lb ball for three months, records her distance at the end. She then moves up to a 15lb ball for three months. At the end of the three months she then throws the 10lb ball again, guaranteed that that ball will go further (disconcerning other minor factors)

I know somebody who bench presses explosively (yes, he is crazy) and he says it is phenomenal how much everything has benefited. His max strength is going up, aswell as his punch power and general power overall

[md]

A shot putter would train to be strong and powerful in their whole body.

Not doing the same exercise over and over stops you "maxing out". That's why sprinters do heavy slow squats, light fast squats, jump squats, box squats, wide squats, single leg squats, lunges, side lunges, jump lunges etc. not to mention the speed work they do on the track.

Push-ups work max strength if your really weak but if your normal they're for muscular endurance or can be for training power.

Studies have shown that periodising your training by varying speed and intensity works best.

I wouldn't 1rm your cable thing, it'll mess up your biomechanics. 3/4 rep 95% bench press then transfer the strength gain into power.

[Von Milash]

The thing that perplexes me the most is that when we throw a punch, we're engaging fast twitch muscle. But in order to work fast twitch muscle (ie, to make it stronger) many people say to lift heavy loads--close to 1RM. Do you see the irony here?

This is why I'm still touting my theory of RWT.

[Von Milash]

I wouldn't 1rm your cable thing, it'll mess up your biomechanics. 3/4 rep 95% bench press then transfer the strength gain into power.

Interesting. The makers of the thing that evander used say go heavier at first to develop coordination/muscle memory, then go lighter as you get better.

Jamoie, I agree that going up in weight will result in increased gains at the lower weight. The big quesiton is, how much heavier should you go? Right now that's the million dollar question, IMO.

[Jamoie]

The thing that perplexes me the most is that when we throw a punch, we're engaging fast twitch muscle. But in order to work fast twitch muscle (ie, to make it stronger) many people say to lift heavy loads--close to 1RM. Do you see the irony here?

I suppose it depends on the lift though. Doing a slow 1rm bench press wont employ your fast twitch muscle fibers, but a clean and jerk would.

[Von Milash]

now see, what I've read suggests that the slow 1RM press WILL recruit them.

[md]

A 1rm effort is what it's called, it's the maximum you can lift once. You recruit every motor unit available at that time i.e. slow (type1) and fast (type 11). It's the type 11 that are mostly doing the effort because these fibres are stronger.

Another quite good thing about using heavy resistance is that you train the type1 muscles which maintain good posture.

The irony is in the name Von from now on we should call them type1 and type11 fibres and then the confusion will end.

Von, I'd bet the makers of that machine don't even tell you to work at even 50% of your 1rm. I can understand the logic, once your used to using it, working relatively heavy then going lighter and faster.

[Von Milash]

that's correct. In fact, the machine only comes with 35lbs of weight plates. But their contention is that for neuromusclular coordination, power, etc, that's all you need, and work towards lighter loads... ie, 5-10lb. keep in mind that for what that machine works (and my power puncher 2000 ) your arms literally aren't strong enough to work much more than that. you'd be surprised at how weak all those little muscles are that contribute to a left hook or jab. Maybe not you being a doctor, but most people. it's obviously vastly different from a bench press.

[md]

Ha ha cc for your perseverence. Snatch drills are good for those cheeky little muscles. Also find out about serratus anterior and train them.

Have you put chains on your "power puncher 2000" yet to make it a "variable resistance power puncher 2007" ?

[Von Milash]

no, but I haven't forgot your (excellent) suggestion! There's some super heavy chain at this mom and pop hardware store I found...just godda price it. But I've even come up with a design for a chain holder...yes, made out of 3/4" black iron pipe.

[landmine950]

Are you trying to build strength? just good old fashion brute strength?

Bench? Here's my old routine on a heavy day.would take 1 1/2 hours JUST FOR BENCH!

using only 25 and 45 lb plates and a 40 pound Olympic bar (no collars)

0X20=40 warm up
0x20= 40 warm up
25x18 =90
45x16= 135
25+45 x 14 =185
45+45 X12 = 225 (personnel best was 225 x 30 reps)
This was where the "Pretty boys"in the gym would like to work in on the bench and show that they could do sets at 225.
25+45+45 X10 = 275 (personnel best was 275 x17)
Pretty boys get scared here and remember that they did chest yesterday!

45x45x45 x8 = 315 (pb 315 x
steroid users bag out here at 315 for 2 or so
25+45+45+45 X6 = 375 (very hard usually did 4 and 2 cheats)
heres where we invite the boys back and they usually decline.
45+45+45+45 X4 =405 (here's where people in the gym stop what they are doing and start watching)
this is 4 big plates and it looks really cool!!
25+45+45+45+45 X2 = 455 (on a heavy day,wrapped wrists,slapping forehead)
45+45+45+45+45 X2 = 495 max bench usually cheat or negatives
this is 5 big plates. bar bends when you do it.looks cool.
Lou ferrigno, the hulk,did more steroids then a cattle ranch and his personal best bench was 520 at 6'7" and 330 pounds.

If you still have any "piss" left in ya drop down 2 weights at a time and do a negative pyramid

note that there are 12 sets here with the first 6 or so being only warm up.

I tried doing less weight and reps on the way up and I always seemed weaker at the max weight.

Big rests in between sets..5-10 minutes.

Note that these are cheat and not pure strict form bench in that you have a spotter "touching "the bar and bounce a touch off of your chest at the bottom.
The most I ever benched "Perfectly" with a judge was 385.
where the bar has to be motionless on your chest before you push it up. I could have done more but was only allowed 3 sets at the bench and couldn't get the pump i was used to.

We would do one other body part medium that day.
only do a heavy day every 7 days.
Eat like a fucking pig.
sleep all you can

We had a similar routine for seated row (max at 800 lbs) and tricep push down.
stick with basics. Squat,bench,seated rows,tricep pushdow.curls.
Only do stuff that feels good.( i hate preacher bench,) find a groove,get a good partner.

I have many times taken a 5'9" 175 pound guy and Had him at 200+ pound body weight and benching 315 in 3 months!

Don't do steroids! whatever gains you get from them you will lose them and more when you go off cycle. I was almost always the biggest
6'4" 277# and strongest guy in any gym and I NEVER DID STEROIDS EVER!

wheni was 16 i was 6'4" and weighed 161 lbs! couldn't bench my body weight.

this systems called pyramiding and was used and promoted by Arnold who learned it from Franco Columbo a world record holder in the bench and now a Dr in Chiropractics

Hope it helps. obviously change the weight numbers for your current ability.

[Von Milash]

good info. thanks! cc.