Boxing Forums



User Tag List

Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 46 to 60 of 60

Thread: Reflexes a-side, what is the best defence

Share/Bookmark
  1. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    3,556
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    1748
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Reflexes a-side, what is the best defence

    Not necessarily, look at Eddy Futch's fighters, or some of Freddy Roach's. Not all of them are great at it but average fighter can do it too. Hell, even Freddy Roach wasn't a world beater but he learned those moves too. Look at the shoulder-roll counter that Futch taught most of his fighters. One of them was dropping a left lead to draw right hand counter, the punch can be parried or blocked with the left shoulder, and a right hand, or flicker jab can be thrown in retaliation.

    The average guy will get hit the first few times as you may have faced, but naturally as you know there's timing in landing a punch, there's timing in defense as well. Unless you've fine-tuned it down to the feeling and reflex of it, I'll agree that learning boxer is going to be pretty reserved about it. Even James Toney was a big gym rat when he was learning these moves, if you want to get it down you have to work it into your sparring/bag-work and especially your sparring sessions.
    If you hear a voice within you saying that I am not a painter, then by all means paint and that voice will be silenced.

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    151
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    0
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Reflexes a-side, what is the best defence

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris N.
    Quote Originally Posted by sleeplessrevolution
    in my opinion, reflexes aside i think the 2nd best defense is still the "boxer stance" because it is more likely for a boxer to be hittable when his arms are put down than say a style like winky where his arms are always up and ready for a cover.
    A good fighter will drop his arms to invite an attack that they'll counter, that's one way sucker a guy to throw a punch. Look at Archie Moore who's one of the earlier fighters to adopt a defense like Winky's. Moore had his hands up for most of the fight, but when he was trying to set them up he'd drop a hand or two.

    I agree with Olympian, for the most part defense is making your opponent miss which weaves into setting your own attacks up.

    In regards to a good defensive fighter worth mentioning is "the untouchable" Nocolino Locche. He reminded me of Willy Pep in a few respects, you couldn't land a jab on him with a machine gun, he could shoulder-roll, sucker a guy to throw a punch and turn the tables on them like the fighters before him.

    Funny to think that all these moves, even the sharp perception of defense was almost universal in the 40's and 50's. Now it's seldom that you'll see a complete defensive package, but a few names these days bring back that old magic.
    "Making your opponent miss whether your hands is up or down" means you still need "reflex" to do that. and the topic says reflex aside, what is the best defense right? "If your hands is down" and you don't have a reflex to support it in order to make the opponent miss, then you'll only be just a live human punching bag.

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,186
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    0
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Reflexes a-side, what is the best defence

    I think the best defense is James Toney type rolling the shoulder and blocking. I know guys say moving the head is great, but when a guy gets older that head stops moving, and even if it moves a little less that is enough to get hit hard. Having a jab and blocking it and rolling the shoulder is better and the use of experience can actually make a guy more defensive later than he was when he was young, but the head movement like Mike Tyson had was great until Mike got less motivated. Then guys started to hit him more, and also Tyson used his head movement to slip inside and land body shots, when he stopped using his head movement he started to get hit more since he was not on the inside as effectively and the guys were not as off balance for his counter shot, and he was on the outside in the range of his opponents.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    3,556
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    1748
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Reflexes a-side, what is the best defence

    You got it about the shoulders. James Toney, the Mayweathers made good use of their shoulders. Why not? I think it's become a neglected aspect that was once universal half a century ago.

    If you hear a voice within you saying that I am not a painter, then by all means paint and that voice will be silenced.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    3,556
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    1748
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Reflexes a-side, what is the best defence

    Quote Originally Posted by sleeplessrevolution
    "Making your opponent miss whether your hands is up or down" means you still need "reflex" to do that. and the topic says reflex aside, what is the best defense right? "If your hands is down" and you don't have a reflex to support it in order to make the opponent miss, then you'll only be just a live human punching bag.
    It's called timing punches. If your relflexes are shot it doesn't matter if you hands are up or down you're going to hit all day. Arche Moore in his later fights didn't have great reflexes but it was his experience and the perception that went with it that allowed him to counter and draw his opponents. You don't need RJJ/PBF reflexes to set a guy up or counter, but you need enough reflexes and some well trained eyes to time a punch and land your own. This goes hand in hand w/ defense.
    If you hear a voice within you saying that I am not a painter, then by all means paint and that voice will be silenced.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    151
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    0
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Reflexes a-side, what is the best defence

    [quote=Chris N. ]
    Quote Originally Posted by sleeplessrevolution
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris N.
    Quote Originally Posted by sleeplessrevolution
    in my opinion, reflexes aside i think the 2nd best defense is still the "boxer stance" because it is more likely for a boxer to be hittable when his arms are put down than say a style like winky where his arms are always up and ready for a cover.
    It's called timing punches. If your relflexes are shot it doesn't matter if you hands are up or down you're going to hit all day. Arche Moore in his later fights didn't have great reflexes but it was his experience and the perception that went with it that allowed him to counter and draw his opponents. You don't need RJJ/PBF reflexes to set a guy up or counter, but you need enough reflexes and some well trained eyes to time a punch and land your own. This goes hand in hand w/ defense.

    A good fighter will drop his arms to invite an attack that they'll counter, that's one way sucker a guy to throw a punch. Look at Archie Moore who's one of the earlier fighters to adopt a defense like Winky's. Moore had his hands up for most of the fight, but when he was trying to set them up he'd drop a hand or two.

    I agree with Olympian, for the most part defense is making your opponent miss which weaves into setting your own attacks up.

    In regards to a good defensive fighter worth mentioning is "the untouchable" Nocolino Locche. He reminded me of Willy Pep in a few respects, you couldn't land a jab on him with a machine gun, he could shoulder-roll, sucker a guy to throw a punch and turn the tables on them like the fighters before him.

    Funny to think that all these moves, even the sharp perception of defense was almost universal in the 40's and 50's. Now it's seldom that you'll see a complete defensive package, but a few names these days bring back that old magic.
    "Making your opponent miss whether your hands is up or down" means you still need "reflex" to do that. and the topic says reflex aside, what is the best defense right? "If your hands is down" and you don't have a reflex to support it in order to make the opponent miss, then you'll only be just a live human punching bag.
    Mate counter punching needs tremendous reflex because without it you couldn't see where the punches of your opponent coming from in order for you to time and counter punch them right away.

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    151
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    0
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Reflexes a-side, what is the best defence

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris N.
    Quote Originally Posted by sleeplessrevolution
    "Making your opponent miss whether your hands is up or down" means you still need "reflex" to do that. and the topic says reflex aside, what is the best defense right? "If your hands is down" and you don't have a reflex to support it in order to make the opponent miss, then you'll only be just a live human punching bag.
    It's called timing punches. If your relflexes are shot it doesn't matter if you hands are up or down you're going to hit all day. Arche Moore in his later fights didn't have great reflexes but it was his experience and the perception that went with it that allowed him to counter and draw his opponents. You don't need RJJ/PBF reflexes to set a guy up or counter, but you need enough reflexes and some well trained eyes to time a punch and land your own. This goes hand in hand w/ defense.
    Mate counter punching needs tremendous reflex because without it you couldn't see where the punches of your opponent coming from in order for you to time and counter punch them right away.

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    6,103
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    0
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Reflexes a-side, what is the best defence

    Re: Reflexes a-side, what is the best defence



    A strong Offense. good accurate punching , power and timing !, it can be one hell of a defense.

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    3,556
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    1748
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Reflexes a-side, what is the best defence

    Anyone remember the bad old days where if you were a black fella you'd have to go into a ring with bags over your head and slug it out. Bad times... Bad times...

    Anyways if you want a good defense, assuming that you are a blind statue with the reflexes of a rock, you're at least going to have to stop making stupid mistakes. Well, Duh... If half of boxing is capitalizing on another guy's mistakes, then you are better offdoing yourseld a favor by not giving that guy all the chances to beat you.

    A lot of guys think that it's just good punching, but if they end up being predictable, and single-minded for that matter then accuracy, speed and power isn't going to make a world's difference in keeping you out of harms way/
    If you hear a voice within you saying that I am not a painter, then by all means paint and that voice will be silenced.

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    5,788
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    1138
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Reflexes a-side, what is the best defence

    A Young, in shape James Toney
    Life is still worth while If You Just Smile - MJ

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,186
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    0
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Reflexes a-side, what is the best defence

    Yeah James Toney has one of the best defenses I have seen. More effective than Roy Jones since Roy relies so much on speed and skill to get out of the way of punches. When Roy got a little older he was not as effective. Marlon Starling had an interesting defense with his gloves many years ago, yet a guy with handspeed usually could penetrate his gloves and since he had his gloves so high he could not punch as well since he had to come way down to counterpunch, but he had great defense. I guess if you combine Marlon Starling with James Toney that is a heck of a combination for defense without reflexes.

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    453
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    0
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Reflexes a-side, what is the best defence

    Quote Originally Posted by Taeth
    Roy Jones Jr.
    Willie Pep
    Mayweather Jr.
    Whitaker
    Winky Wright

    all had/have great reflexes but that doesn't always mean everything. Ali had great reflexes, but when he fought flat footed he was relatively easy to hit footwork aside. Leonard also appeared that way. Michael Nunn, Meldrick Taylor, Shane Mosley all have great reflexes, but they could be hit. What of the top mentioned guys had the best defensive style in that the most people could use it effectively? I would say Wright.
    Wright probably has the best textbook boxing defense, yes. That doesnt mean it is the best. There is no one best defense in terms of picking a style of defensive posture or technique and saying, "that's the best". A fighter's defense depends on the fighter; their size/body type, how he or she moves, their speed, chin, power and the type of fighter they mentally believe they are. What works in a textbook; hands-up, elbows-in-and-down defense may not work for a rangy fighter with a lot of speed who generates more power in looping punches thrown from a position where the hands are lower than normal. I would think a more James Toney/Roy Jones-like stance; with the left slightly down; guarding the body, while employeeing the use of "fades" and evasive maneuvers then immediately counterpunching (like fading back to avoid a straight punch then coming back with the counter overhand right) would be a better type of defense for this type of boxer than would a more balanced textbook defensive style (ala winky wright) or a style that called for a crouching, tight, inside-fighting defensive style (like the "peek a boo" defense made popular by Cus D'Amato that can be seen in Mike Tyson and the late Floyd Patterson), because he would be able to use his speed and range to the best of his ability. So basically I think the best defense for a fighter depends on that fighters body type, speed, power and chin. Everyone is different. Different types of defenses work better for different people. Good topic.

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,186
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    0
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Reflexes a-side, what is the best defence

    Actually one fight which shows how a guy can have good defense and not move his head that much is Roberto Duran vs. Marvin Hagler. Roberto was great at using his skill and experience to sort of be economical and get Marvin into a rhythm which then made it easy for Roberto to use his great inside defensive skills. I think if a guy can get another guy into his rhythm then the defense can work well also. Hearns was a guy who Hagler said used his offense as his defense, and it works until someone starts to swing punches recklessly.. And that is Hearns weakness. A guy who throws punches while being nail by Hearns. ANd there comes in Iran Barklay. I rambled again. Leonard was good defensively until he got older and then Norris demolished him easily. But Ray always relied on reflexes which once they go the fighter is pretty much finished like Ray Leonard and Mike Tyson.

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,449
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    959
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Reflexes a-side, what is the best defence

    High offensive output, and good jabbing always helps. Lewis, Mike Moorer, didn't have chins, but won alot of fights against good opponents. Timing with the jab can change a fight, or fighter. Forrest vs Mosely.

    Best defense= Keep your hands up.

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    6,706
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Punch Power
    1438
    Cool Clicks

    Default Re: Reflexes a-side, what is the best defence

    The thing is you can duck and move yourself like TOney and Them but keep your hands like wright... Its not as versatile for counter punching, but it is effective in blocking punches.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  




Boxing | Boxing Photos | Boxing News | Boxing Forum | Boxing Rankings

Copyright © 2000 - 2024 Saddo Boxing - Boxing