Difference Between BJJ and jujutsu?

**amat** · 04-20-2007 04:20 AM

What are the differences?

**Heavy D** · 04-20-2007 05:44 AM

Jiu Jitsu is a japanese (i think) traditional martial art along the lines of Gung Fu and Karate, focusing on the throat strikes and eye gouges and breaking arms and whatnot.

BJJ was a branch off from normal JJ pioneered by the Gracies among others in Brazil (having learned JJ in whatever country it was originated) that focused on what really worked in a fight. They basically decided that ground game was where it was at and wound up for the most part focusing solely on submissions.

However, I think this was a bit flawed, as the average bum on the street, or even average Traditional martial artist (TMAist), has even a basic understanding of striking....hit hard and/or hit fast. Any bum could knock out Ali or Tyson if they got lucky. However, because so many martial artists focused solely on striking or gimmick, complex submissions, they couldn't cope with a solely submission artist. They did so well because they were able to take people out of their game and into theirs. It was the equivalent of taking a poker player and making him play blackjack...both equally difficult to master but entirely seperate. Sure, the poker player may get some lucky cards and win a blackjack game, or vice versa, but on the whole, each player would win his game the majority of the time.

**VictorCharlie** · 04-20-2007 03:04 PM

My understanding is that Helio had trained with a Master of Jiu jitsu in japan. He augmented the martial art by coming up with techniques that were not based on strength and size. Helio was not a very big man and needed a fighting style that would allow his technique to be able to overcome bigger foes. I'm not positive but I think the fighting from the guard off his back effectively is one of his big improvements.

**amat** · 04-20-2007 04:24 PM

Wow. CC.

**Punisher136** · 04-20-2007 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by Heavy D

Jiu Jitsu is a japanese (i think) traditional martial art along the lines of Gung Fu and Karate, focusing on the throat strikes and eye gouges and breaking arms and whatnot.

BJJ was a branch off from normal JJ pioneered by the Gracies among others in Brazil (having learned JJ in whatever country it was originated) that focused on what really worked in a fight. They basically decided that ground game was where it was at and wound up for the most part focusing solely on submissions.

However, I think this was a bit flawed, as the average bum on the street, or even average Traditional martial artist (TMAist), has even a basic understanding of striking....hit hard and/or hit fast. Any bum could knock out Ali or Tyson if they got lucky. However, because so many martial artists focused solely on striking or gimmick, complex submissions, they couldn't cope with a solely submission artist. They did so well because they were able to take people out of their game and into theirs. It was the equivalent of taking a poker player and making him play blackjack...both equally difficult to master but entirely seperate. Sure, the poker player may get some lucky cards and win a blackjack game, or vice versa, but on the whole, each player would win his game the majority of the time.

i think that is a monumentally false belief.

**Heavy D** · 04-21-2007 06:09 AM

For starters, you're taking it a bit too literally, of course certain people couldn't knock out Ali. But any punch at the right time under a certain set of circumstances can knock someone out. It happens all the time, especially in MMA.

E.G. Goulet getting dropped like 3 seconds into a fight by a short jab. It just happened to catch him right and the body didn't like it and shut down. Also watch the Vernon White vs Chuck fight...those two guys traded haymakers the whole fight. And what knocked White out? A jab thrown by Chuck WHILE backpeddling. Not exactly the most forceful punch he had thrown. But it just so happened to land in a way that White dropped.

Or hell...even Harry Houdini. The guy was famed for being able to take a punch to the gut by ANYBODY. And what killed him? A college boxer popped him one in the gut when he wasn't ready and it lead to his death. Anybody can get caught the wrong way by a punch at any given time, as small as the likelyhood may be.

**voodoo_dude** · 04-21-2007 08:08 AM

with traditional Jiu Jitsu there are generally more standup techniques (I dont mean stricking). Joint locks, defending and countering a strike, defending and countering some kind of attack against you (e.g headlock, choke, someone grabbing you). There is also alot of emphasis on throws/takedowns that dont require physical strength and how to subdue the person when they are on the floor.

theres probably alot im forgetting this is just how I would describe what my dad taught when he was a sensei in London

**Punisher136** · 04-21-2007 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Heavy D

For starters, you're taking it a bit too literally, of course certain people couldn't knock out Ali. But any punch at the right time under a certain set of circumstances can knock someone out. It happens all the time, especially in MMA.

E.G.  Goulet getting dropped like 3 seconds into a fight by a short jab. It just happened to catch him right and the body didn't like it and shut down. Also watch the Vernon White vs Chuck fight...those two guys traded haymakers the whole fight. And what knocked White out? A jab thrown by Chuck WHILE backpeddling. Not exactly the most forceful punch he had thrown. But it just so happened to land in a way that White dropped.

Or hell...even Harry Houdini. The guy was famed for being able to take a punch to the gut by ANYBODY. And what killed him? A college boxer popped him one in the gut when he wasn't ready and it lead to his death. Anybody can get caught the wrong way by a punch at any given time, as small as the likelyhood may be.

i did take that a bit to literally because everyone has a knockout reflex. I've seen a couple of different explanations on how knockouts actually happen. The first one i saw was that the quick snapping of the neck causes a breif lack of blood to the brain which causes a "mini stroke" resulting in unconsciousness. Another one was that said snapping motion of the neck interfers with electric signals traveling thru the brain stem theres a momentary stoppage of the signals and it results in unconsciousness. Then there was that national geographic thing that said its the brain slamming off the skull. Now are all these plausible explanations or is one correct and the others just coincidentally happen at the same time?

**amat** · 04-22-2007 12:45 AM

Only asked because my brother has been around MMA a bit helping out with wrestling for fighters like David Terrell and a lot of the Northern California fighters and is just now getting his first classes from a jujutsu blackbelt, was wondering what the difference was. But from the sounds of it, he's being taught BJJ from a guy with a regular jujutsu background. At least I think.

Thanks D, VC and V_D, CC's all around.

**Heavy D** · 04-22-2007 06:05 AM

I'm pretty sure it's the concussion effect. The brain gets rattled, and when that happens, pretty much everything shuts itself down. Granted, I have no science to back that up, and I don't think anybody's POSITIVE, but generally when things happen to your brain, the rest of the body shuts down (e.g. going into shock).