Why do people confuse exposure with hype?

[Kev]

I've seen Sergio Mora threads over the last couple days saying he is overratted. I've also seen similar threads recently about John Duddy, Alfonso Gomez, Sam Peter etc.

But what do people really mean when they say a fighter is overratted? Overeratted by whom?

I've responded about Mora in another thread so I won't again here but take John Duddy for example. People say he is overratted but how is he? The vast majority of knowledgeble fight fans and virtually all boxing writers, commentators etc rate him completely accurately, an exciting brawler who has a crowd pleasing style and defensive frailties, I've never heard anyone make any greater claims than that.

It's exactly the same for Alfonso Gomez who is always a popular subject for the overratted tag. Again overatted by whom? Has ANY boxing writer or commentator ever described his a potential world beater? Has anybody ever posted as much on here?

Sam Peter is another example, with people saying he's overatted now he got knocked down by Jameel McCline. But how was he rated before? He's a strong guy with big power, a decent chin and has an excellent chance as establishing himself as a world champion in the future. That's how he was rated before, and it's still accurate now.

Nobody has ever rated him as a potential all time great heavyweight or the next Mike Tyson, he is what he is and has been rated as such.

I actually think the most overatted thing in boxing is the use of the overratted tag, which people churn out every time a fighter has a poor performance.

[luvfightgame]

Exactly my sentiments. As you responded in the other post. There's gotta be a better word.

Someone came up with hyped.

Then "overhyped"

Anything better?

[Kev]

Exactly my sentiments. As you responded in the other post. There's gotta be a better word.

Someone came up with hyped.

Then "overhyped"

Anything better?

Maybe overexposed?

I don't think Sergio is overhyped or overratted at all, I think his strengths and weaknesses have been well assessed. Maybe he gets too much exposure although I'd actually disagree with that personally. He has got a lot less exposure than Peter Manfredo and Alfonso Gomez despite winning the show. I think what it boils down to is that people just don't like him much and they hate to see him on tv at all.

To be honest apart from when he fights very little is said about him. It's not that he's overatted, it's just that people don't warm to him hence their wanting to bash him all the time.

If you just look at him totally objectively he's an unbeaten fighter, who has a slick awkward style but lacks power. He has a reasonably impressive resume having won the Contender show and beating established boxers like Ishe Smith, Peter Manfredo and Jess Brinkely all of whom have fought world champions or ex world champions. With only 11 fights going into the Contender he was one of the least experienced but came through and has remained unbeaten since.

That's just the facts as they are. Nobody yet knows if he can go onto become a major player in the division and no boxing commentator has ever hyped him as being the next big thing in the division. But with Miranda and Jermain Taylor moving up and Winky's future uncertain the field at 160 is pretty much wide open. He's on the fringe of breaking into the top 10 and we'll see were he goes from there.

[Violent Demise]

Actually Peter has been viewed as the potential savior of the Heavyweight division. A murderous puncher with a granite jaw. Well it's become obvious that Peter doesn't possess the power that people were led to believe he had. And his jaw is not granite as previously taught. So it's easy to call Peter overrated. Because technically he is. Is he a bad fighter? No. Can he become undisputed champion? He's has a good a chance as the other heavyweights. But he's not the dominate fighter he was hyped up to be.

[luvfightgame]

Yeah that's probably more descriptive. Overexposed. However I think Mora's lack of exposure is due to inactivity and that he doesn't want to play up his role as "The Contender".

Although it's his meal ticket, I think he shows some reluctance to his appearances.

Manfredo and Gomez have been much more active. Especially Manfredo. Although he got thrown under the bus on the JC shot. Which I personally think he got screwed. I think he would have put up a decent fight had he been given the chance, and walked away with more respect from the average fan.

Mora has been horribly inactive. Out of sight, out of mind.

[Kev]

Actually Peter has been viewed as the potential savior of the Heavyweight division. A murderous puncher with a granite jaw. Well it's become obvious that Peter doesn't possess the power that people were led to believe he had. And his jaw is not granite as previously taught. So it's easy to call Peter overrated. Because technically he is. Is he a bad fighter? No. Can he become undisputed champion? He's has a good a chance as the other heavyweights. But he's not the dominate fighter he was hyped up to be.

I've never heard anyone describe him as the saviour of the heavyweight division.

Certainly no reputable writer or broadcast team has ever bestowed that tag upon him. HBO, Showtime and every writer all lament the current state of the heavyweight division. When Tyson began his rise to prominence that's all that was ever talked about, there was a buzz in the heavyweight division, Peter has never approached anything like that level of anticipation. In fact he's completely unknown outside boxing circles.

[luvfightgame]

Actually Peter has been viewed as the potential savior of the Heavyweight division. A murderous puncher with a granite jaw. Well it's become obvious that Peter doesn't possess the power that people were led to believe he had. And his jaw is not granite as previously taught. So it's easy to call Peter overrated. Because technically he is. Is he a bad fighter? No. Can he become undisputed champion? He's has a good a chance as the other heavyweights. But he's not the dominate fighter he was hyped up to be.

I've never heard anyone describe him as the saviour of the heavyweight division.

Certainly no reputable writer or broadcast team has ever bestowed that tag upon him. HBO, Showtime and every writer all lament the current state of the heavyweight division. When Tyson began his rise to prominence that's all that was ever talked about, there was a buzz in the heavyweight division, Peter has never approached anything like that level of anticipation. In fact he's completely unknown outside boxing circles.

You never heard Peter's promoter then.

He's made those type of statements often. And it was being said by Showtime before he lost to Wlad.

[LEGION]

Exactly my sentiments. As you responded in the other post. There's gotta be a better word.

Someone came up with hyped.

Then "overhyped"

Anything better?

Maybe overexposed?

I don't think Sergio is overhyped or overratted at all, I think his strengths and weaknesses have been well assessed. Maybe he gets too much exposure although I'd actually disagree with that personally. He has got a lot less exposure than Peter Manfredo and Alfonso Gomez despite winning the show. I think what it boils down to is that people just don't like him much and they hate to see him on tv at all.

Very thought provoking posts Bilbo, definate CC. I think alot of us expect too much from fighters, and the more "exposure" they get or the higher they climb the ropes the more demanding true fans of boxing get. Media sure has alot to do with it and when people see these guys getting air time I guess we think they should be top of the food chain entertainment, hence some see hype as being the bastard son of exposure, or vice-versa. I don't under or overrate Mora, I don't rate him at all at this time, other than being a "hyped" up soap opera reject, and a spoiled brat. A guy who wanted to call the shots with a match against Taylor when he was the champ and Mora was famous for beating up another nobody named Manfredo in the Contender. I just don't like him. Don't know if I really helped to answer your question, sorry if I rambled.

[Kev]

Actually Peter has been viewed as the potential savior of the Heavyweight division. A murderous puncher with a granite jaw. Well it's become obvious that Peter doesn't possess the power that people were led to believe he had. And his jaw is not granite as previously taught. So it's easy to call Peter overrated. Because technically he is. Is he a bad fighter? No. Can he become undisputed champion? He's has a good a chance as the other heavyweights. But he's not the dominate fighter he was hyped up to be.

I've never heard anyone describe him as the saviour of the heavyweight division.

Certainly no reputable writer or broadcast team has ever bestowed that tag upon him. HBO, Showtime and every writer all lament the current state of the heavyweight division. When Tyson began his rise to prominence that's all that was ever talked about, there was a buzz in the heavyweight division, Peter has never approached anything like that level of anticipation. In fact he's completely unknown outside boxing circles.

You never heard Peter's promoter then.

He's made those type of statements often. And it was being said by Showtime before he lost to Wlad.

Ah come on you really count a fighter's own promoters hype as being genuine hype! In that case Hasim Rahman is the greatest fighter since Ali and George Foreman - that Bob Arum line made me laugh for weeks!

[Spicoli]

I think overhyping is the case of networks.There basically trying to move a "product" and ensure heightened fan fare and Interest ,Ratings and $$$$$
Overexposure is much easier to alter and apply. such is the case for example should Mora ever step into the ring with Pavlik or...Cough...Taylor,Then he will simply be "Exposed" forget the Over.

[JT Rock]

To me Bilbo old friend it boils down to semantics as well as people using words to loosely without really ascertaining the value of a fighter... i think most people get caught up in the romance of one writer or the jeers of another and formulate an opinion which is not based on their own observation remember any fighter can be what you want them to be depending on what writer you want to believe. I havent commented on Mora because I have only seen the guy fight 2x and I am impartial to him could careless to tell you the truth.

Peter has all the potential in the world but needs to mature as a fighter which I thought he did against Toney in their 2nd fight which he jabbed beautifully and countered. I think with mccline he figured him as a fringe contender so he fought the 1st part of the fight recklessly as to be over anxious and trying to put an exclamation point on his interim champion status.

I said it before I cant remember a fighter so steeped in controversy in which he brought 0 of it on himself.. he has done everythin that has been expected of him and thats win!!!  By the standard Peter is judged by Wlad Klit musn't really be legitamate at all then, he has been KO 3 times and Knocked down numerous occasions but is lauded as the greatest since Ali.

I think more or less this thread isin't geared to the discerning boxing fan but more of the armchair Boxrec warrior

[Kev]

To me Bilbo old friend it boils down to semantics as well as people using words to loosely without really ascertaining the value of a fighter... i think most people get caught up in the romance of one writer or the jeers of another and formulate an opinion which is not based on their own observation remember any fighter can be what you want them to be depending on what writer you want to believe. I havent commented on Mora because I have only seen the guy fight 2x and I am impartial to him could careless to tell you the truth.

Peter has all the potential in the world but needs to mature as a fighter which I thought he did against Toney in their 2nd fight which he jabbed beautifully and countered. I think with mccline he figured him as a fringe contender so he fought the 1st part of the fight recklessly as to be over anxious and trying to put an exclamation point on his interim champion status.

I said it before I cant remember a fighter so steeped in controversy in which he brought 0 of it on himself.. he has done everythin that has been expected of him and thats win!!! By most standard Wlad Klit isint really legitamate at all, he has been KO 3 times and Knocked down numerous occasions but is lauded as the greatest since Ali.

I think more or less this thread isin't geared to the discerning boxing fan but more of the armchair Boxrec warrior

lol armchair boxrec warrior I like that

[bzkfn]

I've seen Sergio Mora threads over the last couple days saying he is overratted. I've also seen similar threads recently about John Duddy, Alfonso Gomez, Sam Peter etc.

But what do people really mean when they say a fighter is overratted? Overeratted by whom?

I've responded about Mora in another thread so I won't again here but take John Duddy for example. People say he is overratted but how is he? The vast majority of knowledgeble fight fans and virtually all boxing writers, commentators etc rate him completely accurately, an exciting brawler who has a crowd pleasing style and defensive frailties, I've never heard anyone make any greater claims than that.

It's exactly the same for Alfonso Gomez who is always a popular subject for the overratted tag. Again overatted by whom? Has ANY boxing writer or commentator ever described his a potential world beater? Has anybody ever posted as much on here?

Sam Peter is another example, with people saying he's overatted now he got knocked down by Jameel McCline. But how was he rated before? He's a strong guy with big power, a decent chin and has an excellent chance as establishing himself as a world champion in the future. That's how he was rated before, and it's still accurate now.

Nobody has ever rated him as a potential all time great heavyweight or the next Mike Tyson, he is what he is and has been rated as such.

I actually think the most overatted thing in boxing is the use of the overratted tag, which people churn out every time a fighter has a poor performance.

This is a great post...from anyone else. In fact, if this was anyone else I'd be coolclicking them, saying "great post, I agree completely." But I'm displeased. You're not supposed to be the clever one with boxing knowledge, you're here for humour and to lower the tone. Remember that for future posts.

[JT Rock]

To me Bilbo old friend it boils down to semantics as well as people using words to loosely without really ascertaining the value of a fighter... i think most people get caught up in the romance of one writer or the jeers of another and formulate an opinion which is not based on their own observation remember any fighter can be what you want them to be depending on what writer you want to believe. I havent commented on Mora because I have only seen the guy fight 2x and I am impartial to him could careless to tell you the truth.

Peter has all the potential in the world but needs to mature as a fighter which I thought he did against Toney in their 2nd fight which he jabbed beautifully and countered. I think with mccline he figured him as a fringe contender so he fought the 1st part of the fight recklessly as to be over anxious and trying to put an exclamation point on his interim champion status.

I said it before I cant remember a fighter so steeped in controversy in which he brought 0 of it on himself.. he has done everythin that has been expected of him and thats win!!! By most standard Wlad Klit isint really legitamate at all, he has been KO 3 times and Knocked down numerous occasions but is lauded as the greatest since Ali.

I think more or less this thread isin't geared to the discerning boxing fan but more of the armchair Boxrec warrior

lol armchair boxrec warrior I like that

Thank you Thank You

[RozzySean]

Dead on, Bilbo. Before I even read your post, Duddy came to mind, and all of the fighters you mentioned are in that catagory, except maybe Sam Peter. You can debate that he's overrated, but for the other guys, I don't know of anybody credible who overrates them. I forgot who said it, but somebody responded to a "Is Duddy Overrated" thread with, "no he's just over-popular."

People seem to get on any fighter who is popular but not a future Champ or top contender. A lot of people don't seem to like fighters who have well managed careers, perhaps because they feel other fighters are more talented and more deserving. Fair enough, but that doesn't make a guy overrated.

Arturo Gatti is one of the most popular fighter out there, but you could name dozens of better fighters in his weight divisions who had more talent and less popularity. To me, the "contender" level fighters - Duddy, Mora, Manfredo, Gomez, Feliciano, McCrary, Augustus etc. play an important roll as gatekeepers and high level opponents. They deserve good careers and fanbases, even if they are never world champs and sometimes, one of these guys surprises everyone and manages to rise to a near-elite level by maximizing the things they do well.