Condition

[Salty]

ok so this was probably staring me in the face and I only just realized it.

Perhaps the whole idea of the fifth phase being a break and the horizontal running are not completely unrelated.

In plants you will get a different response to stress depending on the severity and duration of the stress. Some responses just take a little longer to kick in or are only applicable within a certain range.

So I don't see why the same thing wouldn't apply to humans. I mean our bodies really can't be bothered going to a huge effort to make our system ready for a particular type of effort if our effort is over almost as soon as we begin. That would be a waste of resources.

So if we're fighting over the remote on the coach for 5 seconds before going back into a resting state I wouldn't expect the body to react in the same way it would to tolerate the stress of exercising over a longer duration.

Still it'd be great to have the mechanisms which help you maximise exercise benefit and minimise damage as soon as you begin exercise - which is why we warm up. Perhaps that extra 20 mins or so after the warm up allows the slower physiological responses to kick in (maybe hormonal ?).

The horizontal running takes away stress but probably activates some of the same responses that vertical running would? So if you had it as part of your warm up - you wouldn't be stressing anything but you'd also have you body a little more prepared than you otherwise would before exerting stress?

It would also allow correct posture to be supported. No stress, chemical/ hormonal preparation and physical support for the correct form before starting exercise would all be a huge benefit right?

Maybe, sorta, kinda - ish?

Found a good article on the lactate shuttle concerning the transporters MCT1 and MCT4 and seems to fit your plant ideas. Increasing these (mainly MTC1) results in an elevated lactate transport capacity, which in turn delays both muscle lactate accumilation and intracellular pH decrease (burning sensation when exercising). The ways to improve these are related to intensity, duration of exercise and existing levels of fitness.

Also found a good article about a centrifugal replacement for weights, although don't really know if that's, I'll just continue on the quest.

[Sharla]

ok so this was probably staring me in the face and I only just realized it.

Perhaps the whole idea of the fifth phase being a break and the horizontal running are not completely unrelated.

In plants you will get a different response to stress depending on the severity and duration of the stress. Some responses just take a little longer to kick in or are only applicable within a certain range.

So I don't see why the same thing wouldn't apply to humans. I mean our bodies really can't be bothered going to a huge effort to make our system ready for a particular type of effort if our effort is over almost as soon as we begin. That would be a waste of resources.

So if we're fighting over the remote on the coach for 5 seconds before going back into a resting state I wouldn't expect the body to react in the same way it would to tolerate the stress of exercising over a longer duration.

Still it'd be great to have the mechanisms which help you maximise exercise benefit and minimise damage as soon as you begin exercise - which is why we warm up. Perhaps that extra 20 mins or so after the warm up allows the slower physiological responses to kick in (maybe hormonal ?).

The horizontal running takes away stress but probably activates some of the same responses that vertical running would? So if you had it as part of your warm up - you wouldn't be stressing anything but you'd also have you body a little more prepared than you otherwise would before exerting stress?

It would also allow correct posture to be supported. No stress, chemical/ hormonal preparation and physical support for the correct form before starting exercise would all be a huge benefit right?

Maybe, sorta, kinda - ish?

Found a good article on the lactate shuttle concerning the transporters MTC1 and MTC4 and seems to fit your plant ideas. Increasing these (mainly MTC1) results in an elevated lactate transport capacity, which in turn delays both muscle lactate accumilation and intracellular pH decrease (burning sensation when exercising). The ways to improve these are related to intensity, duration of exercise and existing levels of fitness.

Also found a good article about a centrifugal replacement for weights, although don't really know if that's, I'll just continue on the quest.

Nice work Salty!

[Salty]

After re-reading your post sharla it defently fits your idea, I'll type it up real soon and see what you think

Edit: Trying to make it readable for everyone but at the same time have quality. Don't know if it relates to Scrap's invention but training your Lactate Threshold is defently a good idea and the article i'm writing up will cover training for it, so be patient. Hope I can get it done by tomorrow or it will have to wait for a week and a bit.

[Salty]

Ok I’m assuming a few things here to save me a lot of time, if you want more info I’ll try to help when I get back but I’m sure someone else could defently help you out.

Lactate Shuttle – What is it and why is it important?

Process of the Lactate Shuttle is as follows…

1. Pyruvate (pyruvic acid) is formed when glycogen and glucose are being broken down at high rates in your muscles (called glycolysis which is the conversion of these into pyruvate). Pyruvate is then converted to Lactate (lactic acid) as it increases in the muscles.
2. Lactate is now formed and transported away from the muscle cells into surrounding tissue and blood. This allows glycolysis to persist and thus continuing the supply of energy to our muscles.
3. The muscle cells which the lactate is transported to can cause the lactate to be broken down to fuel (mainly ATP) or can be used to build glycogen.

That is the Lactate shuttle basically, there are limiting factors on this process which contribute to the lactic threshold which we all have; they are…

• Oxidative energy systems
• Speed of transport of the lactate (MCT1 &4)

When pyruvate is formed in your muscle in excerise it is directly related to the work being done, as the intensity of the exercise increases the process of glycolysis also increases. This of course creates more Lactate (lactic shuttle), your body reaches a point where it can no longer deliver enough oxygen to the muscles to oxidise the lactate into energy and thus causes the lactate to start to collect in the blood. This point is called the Lactate threshold, of which another factor is important; the speed of transport of lactate from the blood to tissue.

Monocarboxylate transporter’s (MCT’s) are proteins found in muscle tissue of which two in particular relate to the transport of Lactate in the human body. These are MCT1 and MCT4; both seem to have different functions and are independent on one another. MCT1 are mainly found in Oxidative fibres (slow twitch) while MCT4 is found mainly in Fast twitch fibres. MCT1 is located in the mitochondria and sarcolemma (cell membranes of muscle cells). Both have different functions; MCT4 removes the lactic acid from the muscles while MCT1 can either accept or “give away” lactate from tissue, depending what is required by the muscle. The best thing about these is that they are highly responsive to muscle activity (which would be predicted seeing as they are responsible for the upkeep of the glycolysis process). This means you can readily train and improve the transportation system of your body and thus improve your lactic threshold.

Your lactic threshold is the point where the intensity of the exercise is causing the glycolysis process to produce lactate in excess of what you body is capable of transporting and oxidising to energy. This point see’s a sharp increase in the level of lactate in your blood and is noted as a % of your VO2max.

Lactate Threshold – How to train

Your lactate threshold is just as if not more important to train than your VO2 max, as it is a limiting factor in the energy available to your muscles. The higher the percentage of VO2 max your lactate threshold is the more intensity you can achieve in competition. The best thing is that your lactate threshold can be improved quickly and for your whole body, without separately training each part. This confused me to start with, but if you train one part of your body such as your legs the other regions of your body also respond in the same positive way to the training. So in effect of running you actually improve the energy system or your whole body, (even training on leg improves the ability of your other leg).
However this doesn’t mean go for hours and hours of run’s each day, the most efficient way to train your lactate threshold is to train above it. By doing this your body increases MCT’s and their efficiency, increasing the speed of the transportation of the lactate throughout the body. From what I have read it seems this may be the reason why High intensity training creates greater fat loss in humans, but that’s a whole different one. MCT’s and hence lactate transport play a large part in the way which you should train, in order to improve your lactate threshold. MCT4 does not respond to mild exercise, while MCT1 responds best to endurance exercises; therefore you should aim to target both of these in your workouts. Good ideas for quick improvements are high intensity workouts including; HIIT, Fartlek and Tabata intervals. Mix it up try doing this on your punching bag for a good workout.

Relating to Scrap’s Clues

Ok this is pretty much guess work on my behalf so please make your own conclusions.

Now this leads to relating with scrap’s clues that your heart work’s 35% better on your back and that with certain movements you can produce 30% less lactic acid (I’m assuming for the same work). Therefore I’m thinking that overall your body becomes much more efficient, you have a lower blood pressure and at few beats per minute while transporting the same amount of oxygen to your muscles to oxidise the lactate. With 30% less lactate produced your lactate threshold will be artificially increased as less lactate is required to be oxidised given the same level of oxygen, pushing the point where lactate required closer to VO2 max. This would cause your MCT’s to work more efficiently at each intensity as they are not being flooded by as much lactate as normal, causing them to transport the lactate to tissue which needs fuel the most; allowing your body to adapt to a reduction in fuel to achieve the same level of output. If this were done in such a way to reduce stress on your body you would be able to improve your lactic threshold with reduced risk of injury.

Let me know what you think guys and the conclusions I’ve made, don’t really know if they are right or not but its 2 am here and my mind is buzzing thinking of ways to be able to do this if I have understood it correctly. But I doubt I have so will wait for your feedback.

[Scrap]

Good Lad,

[Scrap]

Got the first clues a few years back, but could never say it did with any certainty.Then a Lecturer wife went lame a Triathlete. I had to get her fit without impact no running for six months, but she could Cycle and swin but no running. Her Husband monitored everything, she had won the event the previous year it was a mini just over the Hour. This time She won and knocked 7 mins of her PB found that interesting

[Scrap]

Plus a few other people did .

[Youngblood]

I understand and am following the chemistry, but am curious to what exercises could be performed on one's back that even at a reduced rate could correlate to say a tabata sprint for eg. and promote a workout as efficient with less strain.

It's not so much that I am lazy, but just why do more work then necessary. It's what first appealed to me in HIIT and tabatas. I still don't understand why anyone feels the need to do distance road work for cardio when aerobic and anaerobic benefits far outweigh it in other ways with less risk of injury, unless their goal is say for fat loss.

So I guess the question is...what exercises are best, and how are they delivered.

[Scrap]

Tabatas are more intense doing it the way its done. A sixteen year old has dropped his times for 800 metres 14 secs in a season to 1. 52.

[Sharla]

Ok I’m assuming a few things here to save me a lot of time, if you want more info I’ll try to help when I get back but I’m sure someone else could defently help you out.

Lactate Shuttle – What is it and why is it important?

Process of the Lactate Shuttle is as follows…

1. Pyruvate (pyruvic acid) is formed when glycogen and glucose are being broken down at high rates in your muscles (called glycolysis which is the conversion of these into pyruvate). Pyruvate is then converted to Lactate (lactic acid) as it increases in the muscles.
2. Lactate is now formed and transported away from the muscle cells into surrounding tissue and blood. This allows glycolysis to persist and thus continuing the supply of energy to our muscles.
3. The muscle cells which the lactate is transported to can cause the lactate to be broken down to fuel (mainly ATP) or can be used to build glycogen.

That is the Lactate shuttle basically, there are limiting factors on this process which contribute to the lactic threshold which we all have; they are…

• Oxidative energy systems
• Speed of transport of the lactate (MCT1 &4)

When pyruvate is formed in your muscle in excerise it is directly related to the work being done, as the intensity of the exercise increases the process of glycolysis also increases. This of course creates more Lactate (lactic shuttle), your body reaches a point where it can no longer deliver enough oxygen to the muscles to oxidise the lactate into energy and thus causes the lactate to start to collect in the blood. This point is called the Lactate threshold, of which another factor is important; the speed of transport of lactate from the blood to tissue.

Monocarboxylate transporter’s (MCT’s) are proteins found in muscle tissue of which two in particular relate to the transport of Lactate in the human body. These are MCT1 and MCT4; both seem to have different functions and are independent on one another. MCT1 are mainly found in Oxidative fibres (slow twitch) while MCT4 is found mainly in Fast twitch fibres. MCT1 is located in the mitochondria and sarcolemma (cell membranes of muscle cells). Both have different functions; MCT4 removes the lactic acid from the muscles while MCT1 can either accept or “give away” lactate from tissue, depending what is required by the muscle. The best thing about these is that they are highly responsive to muscle activity (which would be predicted seeing as they are responsible for the upkeep of the glycolysis process). This means you can readily train and improve the transportation system of your body and thus improve your lactic threshold.

Your lactic threshold is the point where the intensity of the exercise is causing the glycolysis process to produce lactate in excess of what you body is capable of transporting and oxidising to energy. This point see’s a sharp increase in the level of lactate in your blood and is noted as a % of your VO2max.

Lactate Threshold – How to train

Your lactate threshold is just as if not more important to train than your VO2 max, as it is a limiting factor in the energy available to your muscles. The higher the percentage of VO2 max your lactate threshold is the more intensity you can achieve in competition. The best thing is that your lactate threshold can be improved quickly and for your whole body, without separately training each part. This confused me to start with, but if you train one part of your body such as your legs the other regions of your body also respond in the same positive way to the training. So in effect of running you actually improve the energy system or your whole body, (even training on leg improves the ability of your other leg).
However this doesn’t mean go for hours and hours of run’s each day, the most efficient way to train your lactate threshold is to train above it. By doing this your body increases MCT’s and their efficiency, increasing the speed of the transportation of the lactate throughout the body. From what I have read it seems this may be the reason why High intensity training creates greater fat loss in humans, but that’s a whole different one. MCT’s and hence lactate transport play a large part in the way which you should train, in order to improve your lactate threshold. MCT4 does not respond to mild exercise, while MCT1 responds best to endurance exercises; therefore you should aim to target both of these in your workouts. Good ideas for quick improvements are high intensity workouts including; HIIT, Fartlek and Tabata intervals. Mix it up try doing this on your punching bag for a good workout.

Relating to Scrap’s Clues

Ok this is pretty much guess work on my behalf so please make your own conclusions.

Now this leads to relating with scrap’s clues that your heart work’s 35% better on your back and that with certain movements you can produce 30% less lactic acid (I’m assuming for the same work). Therefore I’m thinking that overall your body becomes much more efficient, you have a lower blood pressure and at few beats per minute while transporting the same amount of oxygen to your muscles to oxidise the lactate. With 30% less lactate produced your lactate threshold will be artificially increased as less lactate is required to be oxidised given the same level of oxygen, pushing the point where lactate required closer to VO2 max. This would cause your MCT’s to work more efficiently at each intensity as they are not being flooded by as much lactate as normal, causing them to transport the lactate to tissue which needs fuel the most; allowing your body to adapt to a reduction in fuel to achieve the same level of output. If this were done in such a way to reduce stress on your body you would be able to improve your lactic threshold with reduced risk of injury.

Let me know what you think guys and the conclusions I’ve made, don’t really know if they are right or not but its 2 am here and my mind is buzzing thinking of ways to be able to do this if I have understood it correctly. But I doubt I have so will wait for your feedback.

Looks Awesome Salty!

I've had a quick skim read and I think it all makes sense. I will definately sit down for a bit longer as soon as I get the chance to make sure I understand it.

In a way this makes some of my past/present training methods seem a little silly so I'm glad you've nutted this out now!

I should be able to access some free science journal articles online through my uni so if there's anything I don't understand and I need more info I'll have a hunt.

What you've sussed out is pretty clever though! Salty and Scrap too of course!

[Salty]

Thanks, left out a few things probably, but that's how I found out some of the info as well Sharla. Uni's are good for something

But once I had read enough info it just seemed to click and it made sense, the only thing which doesn't is rubber ball's. But when Scrap unveils his thing to the world then I guess we will see

[Sharla]

Thanks, left out a few things probably, but that's how I found out some of the info as well Sharla. Uni's are good for something

But once I had read enough info it just seemed to click and it made sense, the only thing which doesn't is rubber ball's. But when Scrap unveils his thing to the world then I guess we will see

Have you found anything about why the heart is more efficient when the body is horizontal other than it not pumping against gravity?

I've only so far found one article on how blood plasma volume is reduced with bed rest - maybe related somehow to hydration ? - which especially in muscular men might be related to K deficiency - which may be related to muscle acidification and resistance to fatigue and the lactate shuttle - all pretty sparse links so far though and I have to double check everything before I embarass myself by posting anything

I've also decided the lactate shuttle might be related to your ability to think during intese exercise but I've really got to read more to completely understand it I think!

[Sharla]

of course it might also just be that less stress equals less lactate? still thinking! Still you can reduce stress without being horizontal so I'm guessing there's more to it ....

[Salty]

Have you found anything about why the heart is more efficient when the body is horizontal other than it not pumping against gravity?

I've only so far found one article on how blood plasma volume is reduced with bed rest - maybe related somehow to hydration ? - which especially in muscular men might be related to K deficiency - which may be related to muscle acidification and resistance to fatigue and the lactate shuttle - all pretty sparse links so far though and I have to double check everything before I embarass myself by posting anything

I've also decided the lactate shuttle might be related to your ability to think during intese exercise but I've really got to read more to completely understand it I think!

I'm guessing it is because your body isn't fighting gravity anymore, so the main "leak" of energy from your system is basically removed. Your hearts no longer having to push blood from your toes up to your heart and no longer up to your brain.

Oh and forgot to mention your cardiac system is a large user of lactate as energy, such as the heart. And I did find info considering it a pseudo hormone. But sorry don't have the time supposed to b packing my bags as I type Hopefully when I get back you'll have solved the riddle.

[Sharla]

Your bodys Heart works 35% better Horizontal on your back, also with the tests weve done in the laboratry using certain techniques the body pruduces 30% less latic acid remember lactic shuttle, Fuel. Okay because youre flat gravity isnt such an issue with your venus returns your Heart isnt pumping up less stress plus theres very little impact on joints. Now you can get as much stress and impact three or four days a week as you ever want. But wouldnt it be nice with the rest of your time if you were work and help repair the damage you created and help the body work and adapt to working with less fuel injury free that sounds a good idea, its all done with rubber ,balls and all TBC

yep you're right i should have reread Scraps posts before thinking there was more -

I'm thinking horizontal if lying down reduces your blood plasma volume also then the osmotic potential of your blood might be greater? So even without drinking more water you are more hydrated. Water get's into your muscle cells more easily - you sweat less and loose less K through your sweat. Makes lactate metabolism more efficient that way too perhaps.