Why dont fighters clean out divisions before moving up?

[gudnite vienna]

It really annoys me this, just look at Pac and Mayweather in recent times, why not fight every great fighter in your division before moving up!

Pac took on Diaz when there were better fighters holding belts, and Mayweather didnt fight Tzyu at LW for instance?

Why?

[TheBranMan]

Because it sounds better to say that you've moved up through X divisions

I agree with you though. Greatness does not equate to weight fluctuations.

[Spicoli]

Molla and name affair fights.It can dumb down the sport at times,limits due exposure to some lesser known capable fighters and assumes quite a bit.Its all about trinket collecting,not so much about the best fighting the best..we should demand it....or at least stop paying for spoonfed crap.

[miron_lang]

It really annoys me this, just look at Pac and Mayweather in recent times, why not fight every great fighter in your division before moving up!

Pac took on Diaz when there were better fighters holding belts, and Mayweather didnt fight Tzyu at LW for instance?

Why?

MONEY


Floyd was looking for DLH all along
After Diaz Pac could have fought Campbell or any belted fighter for what? maybe 3 to 5M. He was guranteed 12M againts DLH.

[milmascaras1]

cleaning out one's division is a lost passion for today's boxers. nowadays a fighter would rather win a paper title and instead of defending that title against the number one contender, they go up in weight and pick and choose the easiest opponents.

in my opinion, i believe a fighter that cleans out his division before going up to another weight class is much more impressive than a fighter who wins a title and ducks that divisions top contenders. fighters of the past like julio cesar chavez, who holds the record for 27 title defenses and many others like sugar ray leonard, marvin hagler, salvador sanchez, bernard hopkins, shane mosley, finito lopez and countless others are looked at as legends because they fought and beat the best of their division before moving up. add oscar de la hoya to this list because along with his six division titles at least he had 17 successful title defenses which by today's standards is pretty darn impressive.

[Kev]

What fighters specifically are we talking about here?

You have to understand that the majority of multi-weight champs are actually on their way to another division when they are fighting in one, and so can't afford to hang around.

Look at Manny, that guy fought everybody worth fighting in the featherweight divisions then wanted to test himself against the p4p best and guys like Oscar, Floyd and Manny.

The lightweight division was never anything more than a pass through, he was moving up in weight, got another belt on the way and has now reached his new destination with the Mayweather dream fight.

You can't have a go at him for not fighting the best at lightweight, that was never his intention, he was headed for Floyd.

I do agree in the case of Floyd Mayweather that he should have fought some legitimate welterweight opposition seeing as he has been there for years but most fighters who move through weight classes do so to get to a specific opponent, nobody has the time to clear out every division they fight in especially when half of them are just quick drive throughs on the way to where they want to get to.

[milmascaras1]

when pacquiao vacated his lightweight title he in no way had his sights on floyd mayweather. only after beating diaz did pacquiao go after de la hoya for a megabucks fight. call me old school but i believe it is much more impressive to fight the best fighters in your division before moving up to fight just for a paper title. and FYI, pacquiao only had 3 fights at featherweight, beating barrera and drawing with marquez. at super featherweight he lost to a fading morales, beat barrera and got a gift decision against marquez. but instead of fighting the very dangerous marquez to see who really was the better fighter he went up to lightweight and cherrypicked on david diaz instead of nate campbell, juan diaz, joel casamayol etc...not saying he wouldn't have beaten all three but he never tried. to me, what is more impressive is someone like julio cesar chavez who had 27 title defenses vs. pacquiao's 5. he olds the jr. welterweight record for title defenses at 16 after having more than 80 pro fights. now, that is much more impressive because he took all comers instead of fleeing them.

[Kev]

when pacquiao vacated his lightweight title he in no way had his sights on floyd mayweather. only after beating diaz did pacquiao go after de la hoya for a megabucks fight. call me old school but i believe it is much more impressive to fight the best fighters in your division before moving up to fight just for a paper title. and FYI, pacquiao only had 3 fights at featherweight, beating barrera and drawing with marquez. at super featherweight he lost to a fading morales, beat barrera and got a gift decision against marquez. but instead of fighting the very dangerous marquez to see who really was the better fighter he went up to lightweight and cherrypicked on david diaz instead of nate campbell, juan diaz, joel casamayol etc...not saying he wouldn't have beaten all three but he never tried. to me, what is more impressive is someone like julio cesar chavez who had 27 title defenses vs. pacquiao's 5. he olds the jr. welterweight record for title defenses at 16 after having more than 80 pro fights. now, that is much more impressive because he took all comers instead of fleeing them.

Firstly, please learn to punctuate, your posts are impossible to read.

Secondly if you don't think beating Morales, Barrera and Marquez is clearing out your division then we will never likely agree on anything.

Manny obviously had a plan in moving to 147 (5) as soon as he left super featherweight.

I don't know if you've noticed but in the last few years many of the best fighters in the world have been migrating towards the welterweight division because that's where the best fighters were.

Cotto, Floyd, Hatton, Manny (even Marquez) all moved up, and Oscar and Mosely moved down. Like hungry sharks they all congregated there because that's where the big fights were.

I don't see anything wrong with that at all. Manny went after the best fighters in the world.

He has fought Marquez, De La Hoya, Hatton, Cotto and now Floyd Mayweather.

I just cannot understand for the life of me why you'd rather he'd still be at 135 or 140 beating the likes of Guzman, Ali Funeka, Juan Diaz and Humberto Soto when has fought a whose who of the best p4p fighters in the world in his last 5 or 6 fights.

If you aren't happy with Manny's resume then you are clearly impossible to please and rather stupid, no offense of course.

As for those who stay in their own single division taking on all comers, it depends how much talent is in the divison. Many divisions in boxing have very few world rated fighters and rather than facing all comers many are just choosing to be a big fish in small pond.

It's not that hard to have 10, even 20 plus defences against B list opposition, it's much harder to move through 10 weight classes like Manny has done and fight a whose who of the best fighters in the world in most of them.

[milmascaras1]

bilbo,

firstly, if you don't like my lack of punctuation then don't read my comments pendejo. secondly, it's obvious you're one of those nuthugging pactardos so i won't even attempt to try to reason with you because you people don't know how to reason. it's as if your lives evolve around one boxer that frankly i think that is really sad. as far as pacquiao's resume goes, yes, he does have an impressive record and resume. but let's not act as if he's the only one with a great record and resume. the truth is this, pacquiao has ducked many fighters when he was in the lower weights. the only reason why he's fighting the big guys is because he's making a gazillon dollars. he'd be a complete idiot if he refused that money. and let's not forget that he refused to give marquez a trilogy but he sure in the hell gave morales one after beating in their second fight. yes, pacquiao has a very nice shiney record but upon closer review, it's not what it's made out to be.

[MGG]

cleaning out one's division is a lost passion for today's boxers. nowadays a fighter would rather win a paper title and instead of defending that title against the number one contender, they go up in weight and pick and choose the easiest opponents.

in my opinion, i believe a fighter that cleans out his division before going up to another weight class is much more impressive than a fighter who wins a title and ducks that divisions top contenders. fighters of the past like julio cesar chavez, who holds the record for 27 title defenses and many others like sugar ray leonard, marvin hagler, salvador sanchez, bernard hopkins, shane mosley, finito lopez and countless others are looked at as legends because they fought and beat the best of their division before moving up. add oscar de la hoya to this list because along with his six division titles at least he had 17 successful title defenses which by today's standards is pretty darn impressive.

Good post Mil. De la hoya, Leonard and Hearns took full advantage of the move up in weight game. Certainly Leonard and Hearns paid their dues when fighting at a standard weight, though it was later in the game for them.

[CutMeMick]

It really annoys me this, just look at Pac and Mayweather in recent times, why not fight every great fighter in your division before moving up!

Pac took on Diaz when there were better fighters holding belts, and Mayweather didnt fight Tzyu at LW for instance?

Why?

You really can't compare Pac to PBF as far as moving up in weight.

Pac has def. faced some of the best in some of the divisions he's been in.
More so then PBF I belive...

[Dizaster]

You could also flip the question around as well in a lot of cases..

Why don't fighters try moving up a division when they have completely cleaned out the existing one..

Hatton is a good example of someone who did... He really had 140 owned and was absolutely no doubt the world champion at that weight.. And moved up which I think was a brave thing by him...

But I think as Mick said about Pac, as long as you at least take on someone in the division with credit, and beat them in a manner where people can really reasonable argue that you'd be the favorite against anyone else in that division, then moving up is okay...
And also when you think about it, moving up is the bigger risk and challenge anyway... Not in all cases... You can find people at a lower weight who you'd pick over a lesser ranked fighter at a higher weight..

[Kev]

bilbo,

firstly, if you don't like my lack of punctuation then don't read my comments pendejo. secondly, it's obvious you're one of those nuthugging pactardos so i won't even attempt to try to reason with you because you people don't know how to reason. it's as if your lives evolve around one boxer that frankly i think that is really sad. as far as pacquiao's resume goes, yes, he does have an impressive record and resume. but let's not act as if he's the only one with a great record and resume. the truth is this, pacquiao has ducked many fighters when he was in the lower weights. the only reason why he's fighting the big guys is because he's making a gazillon dollars. he'd be a complete idiot if he refused that money. and let's not forget that he refused to give marquez a trilogy but he sure in the hell gave morales one after beating in their second fight. yes, pacquiao has a very nice shiney record but upon closer review, it's not what it's made out to be.

Ok let's play your game for a moment.

So Hatton, De la Hoya, Cotto and Mayweather should never have happened, he should have cleared out 135 first.

So what four opponents do you think he should have fought that were better for boxing and his resume than those?

[generalbulldog]

when pacquiao vacated his lightweight title he in no way had his sights on floyd mayweather. only after beating diaz did pacquiao go after de la hoya for a megabucks fight. call me old school but i believe it is much more impressive to fight the best fighters in your division before moving up to fight just for a paper title. and FYI, pacquiao only had 3 fights at featherweight, beating barrera and drawing with marquez. at super featherweight he lost to a fading morales, beat barrera and got a gift decision against marquez. but instead of fighting the very dangerous marquez to see who really was the better fighter he went up to lightweight and cherrypicked on david diaz instead of nate campbell, juan diaz, joel casamayol etc...not saying he wouldn't have beaten all three but he never tried. to me, what is more impressive is someone like julio cesar chavez who had 27 title defenses vs. pacquiao's 5. he olds the jr. welterweight record for title defenses at 16 after having more than 80 pro fights. now, that is much more impressive because he took all comers instead of fleeing them.

Firstly, please learn to punctuate, your posts are impossible to read.

Secondly if you don't think beating Morales, Barrera and Marquez is clearing out your division then we will never likely agree on anything.

Manny obviously had a plan in moving to 147 (5) as soon as he left super featherweight.

I don't know if you've noticed but in the last few years many of the best fighters in the world have been migrating towards the welterweight division because that's where the best fighters were.

Cotto, Floyd, Hatton, Manny (even Marquez) all moved up, and Oscar and Mosely moved down. Like hungry sharks they all congregated there because that's where the big fights were.

I don't see anything wrong with that at all. Manny went after the best fighters in the world.

He has fought Marquez, De La Hoya, Hatton, Cotto and now Floyd Mayweather.

I just cannot understand for the life of me why you'd rather he'd still be at 135 or 140 beating the likes of Guzman, Ali Funeka, Juan Diaz and Humberto Soto when has fought a whose who of the best p4p fighters in the world in his last 5 or 6 fights.

If you aren't happy with Manny's resume then you are clearly impossible to please and rather stupid, no offense of course.

As for those who stay in their own single division taking on all comers, it depends how much talent is in the divison. Many divisions in boxing have very few world rated fighters and rather than facing all comers many are just choosing to be a big fish in small pond.

It's not that hard to have 10, even 20 plus defences against B list opposition, it's much harder to move through 10 weight classes like Manny has done and fight a whose who of the best fighters in the world in most of them.

You are right about the welterweight division, historically it has been the 2nd most glamorous division behind Heavyweight, and almost all of the greatest fighters and modern talents have fought there, Both Sugar Rays, Armstrong, Mosley, trinidad, Hearns, Whitaker, De La Hoya, Duran, Benitez Floyd and Manny.

And you're right about being a big fish in a small pond, people have always said Leonard ducked Pryor, but it's funny he never went up to challenge Leonard at Welterweight, and expected Leonard to challege him at 140 instead. What is more impressive Leonard going up in weight to challenge guys or Pryor staying in Jr. welterweight beating up a blownup jr. welter in Arguello and having beating up lesser foes?

[Kev]

when pacquiao vacated his lightweight title he in no way had his sights on floyd mayweather. only after beating diaz did pacquiao go after de la hoya for a megabucks fight. call me old school but i believe it is much more impressive to fight the best fighters in your division before moving up to fight just for a paper title. and FYI, pacquiao only had 3 fights at featherweight, beating barrera and drawing with marquez. at super featherweight he lost to a fading morales, beat barrera and got a gift decision against marquez. but instead of fighting the very dangerous marquez to see who really was the better fighter he went up to lightweight and cherrypicked on david diaz instead of nate campbell, juan diaz, joel casamayol etc...not saying he wouldn't have beaten all three but he never tried. to me, what is more impressive is someone like julio cesar chavez who had 27 title defenses vs. pacquiao's 5. he olds the jr. welterweight record for title defenses at 16 after having more than 80 pro fights. now, that is much more impressive because he took all comers instead of fleeing them.

Firstly, please learn to punctuate, your posts are impossible to read.

Secondly if you don't think beating Morales, Barrera and Marquez is clearing out your division then we will never likely agree on anything.

Manny obviously had a plan in moving to 147 (5) as soon as he left super featherweight.

I don't know if you've noticed but in the last few years many of the best fighters in the world have been migrating towards the welterweight division because that's where the best fighters were.

Cotto, Floyd, Hatton, Manny (even Marquez) all moved up, and Oscar and Mosely moved down. Like hungry sharks they all congregated there because that's where the big fights were.

I don't see anything wrong with that at all. Manny went after the best fighters in the world.

He has fought Marquez, De La Hoya, Hatton, Cotto and now Floyd Mayweather.

I just cannot understand for the life of me why you'd rather he'd still be at 135 or 140 beating the likes of Guzman, Ali Funeka, Juan Diaz and Humberto Soto when has fought a whose who of the best p4p fighters in the world in his last 5 or 6 fights.

If you aren't happy with Manny's resume then you are clearly impossible to please and rather stupid, no offense of course.

As for those who stay in their own single division taking on all comers, it depends how much talent is in the divison. Many divisions in boxing have very few world rated fighters and rather than facing all comers many are just choosing to be a big fish in small pond.

It's not that hard to have 10, even 20 plus defences against B list opposition, it's much harder to move through 10 weight classes like Manny has done and fight a whose who of the best fighters in the world in most of them.

You are right about the welterweight division, historically it has been the 2nd most glamorous division behind Heavyweight, and almost all of the greatest fighters and modern talents have fought there, Both Sugar Rays, Armstrong, Mosley, trinidad, Hearns, Whitaker, De La Hoya, Duran, Benitez Floyd and Manny.

And you're right about being a big fish in a small pond, people have always said Leonard ducked Pryor, but it's funny he never went up to challenge Leonard at Welterweight, and expected Leonard to challege him at 140 instead. What is more impressive Leonard going up in weight to challenge guys or Pryor staying in Jr. welterweight beating up a blownup jr. welter in Arguello and having beating up lesser foes?

Exactly mate, the best fighters, the true greats are always to be found where the action is. That is no coincidence, as I said above, they are like hungry sharks on their way to the feeding grounds to try and take out a giant fish, most of these guys who only stay in one division and never move out of it are like barnacles stuck to a rock living on bits of slime and ocean ooze.