Vitali Klitschko claims 'preliminary agreement' to fight David Haye

[Nameless]

I disagree that Vitali did look so bad, Johnson is considered a boxer hard to hit with a very tough style. Vitali landed a couple of times, just not flush often but I don't see how it makes him so lousy compared to before, just because Johnson has a hard style to match. Beside, Valuev didn't use any meaningful jab at all where Klitschko willl and with his huge range he won't miss. Also, his power is a lot more dangerous than what Barrett who did knock down Haye had. I have difficulties to really think that somebody seriously think Haye has a chance against Vitali.

[eagle]

http://sports.williamhill.com/bet/EN...10/Boxing.html

While you're there search the result section for the fights I listed

A British bookmakers. Nuff said.

What odds you got then?

Well the odds are obviously gonna be closer in Hayes home country than they are everywhere else due to the hype job done on him there. Much like you'll find in just about any fighters home country. I've told u my odds, i believe Haye beating Vitali is up there with Douglas beating Tyson, Clay beating Liston and even Rahman beatin Lewis.

[Fenster]

A British bookmakers. Nuff said.

What odds you got then?

Well the odds are obviously gonna be closer in Hayes home country than they are everywhere else due to the hype job done on him there. Much like you'll find in just about any fighters home country. I've told u my odds, i believe Haye beating Vitali is up there with Douglas beating Tyson, Clay beating Liston and even Rahman beatin Lewis.

The odds wont be much different anywhere else.

You don't understand odds, you're naming 40/1 shots (Tyson-Douglas) with 7/1 shots (Ali-Liston).

So you think Haye is between 7 and 40/1? The professionals think 7/4? Good job you don't bet pal

[eagle]

What odds you got then?

Well the odds are obviously gonna be closer in Hayes home country than they are everywhere else due to the hype job done on him there. Much like you'll find in just about any fighters home country. I've told u my odds, i believe Haye beating Vitali is up there with Douglas beating Tyson, Clay beating Liston and even Rahman beatin Lewis.

The odds wont be much different anywhere else.

You don't understand odds, you're naming 40/1 shots (Tyson-Douglas) with 7/1 shots (Ali-Liston).

So you think Haye is between 7 and 40/1? The professionals think 7/4? Good job you don't bet pal

So u honestly believe the odds reflect the chance Haye has against Vitali? The professionals also thought Douglas was 40/1 to beat Tyson so u can see its not always that bright to listen to them as well. The average gambler aint a pro and dont know shit about boxing really.

[Violent Demise]

They were all betting underdogs. Fact.

Book makers ain't exactly the most knowledgeable Boxing fans. Fact

That is one serious chump comment. Fact.

But tell me I'm wrong

[killersheep]

Well the odds are obviously gonna be closer in Hayes home country than they are everywhere else due to the hype job done on him there. Much like you'll find in just about any fighters home country. I've told u my odds, i believe Haye beating Vitali is up there with Douglas beating Tyson, Clay beating Liston and even Rahman beatin Lewis.

The odds wont be much different anywhere else.

You don't understand odds, you're naming 40/1 shots (Tyson-Douglas) with 7/1 shots (Ali-Liston).

So you think Haye is between 7 and 40/1? The professionals think 7/4? Good job you don't bet pal

So u honestly believe the odds reflect the chance Haye has against Vitali? The professionals also thought Douglas was 40/1 to beat Tyson so u can see its not always that bright to listen to them as well. The average gambler aint a pro and dont know shit about boxing really.

The odds obviously don't reflect EXACTLY the chances in the fight however they are a great gauge of a close expectation of the fight. Haye is seen as someone with a reasonable chance of winning however he is less than likely to win hence the odds of 7/4. There is no way you can put this on the level of Douglas/Tyson. Douglas was so overlooked by Tyson, the media, the boxing public in general that he was expected to get flattened in the first round.

[zbolt]

even with signed fight contracts, a fight still has chances of getting cancelled (can't make weight, tho not on heavies, injuries, etc.)

[USA LOVES THE KLITSCHKOS]

Everyone who keeps talking about how bad VK looked with Johnson and how haye will give him a beat down.Answer these questions. Does haye protect himself like Johnson? No he don't. Can he take a hit. No he can't. Some said VK looked slow and old. Is VK faster than NV? Yes on his worst day. Is VK more aggressive than NV? Much much more. And just think haye won by MD, hmmm but yet he will out class VK and KO him. Haye talked so much shit about what he was going to do to NV until he was put to the test and then his heart begain to pump chickenshit. Now he runs his mouth again like he's a fearless warrior.When he finally get's in the ring with VK he will once again second guess himself and when or if he does hit VK with his almighty widowmaker (as some would like to call it)and it has no affect then haye will realize VK(like death) can't be stopped (not by him anyway) and hayes blood will once again turn to chickenshit.

[Nameless]

The odds wont be much different anywhere else.

You don't understand odds, you're naming 40/1 shots (Tyson-Douglas) with 7/1 shots (Ali-Liston).

So you think Haye is between 7 and 40/1? The professionals think 7/4? Good job you don't bet pal

So u honestly believe the odds reflect the chance Haye has against Vitali? The professionals also thought Douglas was 40/1 to beat Tyson so u can see its not always that bright to listen to them as well. The average gambler aint a pro and dont know shit about boxing really.

The odds obviously don't reflect EXACTLY the chances in the fight however they are a great gauge of a close expectation of the fight. Haye is seen as someone with a reasonable chance of winning however he is less than likely to win hence the odds of 7/4. There is no way you can put this on the level of Douglas/Tyson. Douglas was so overlooked by Tyson, the media, the boxing public in general that he was expected to get flattened in the first round.

Yeah it's true. However, seeing how Haye did act with the Klitschko, I doubt them will overlook him and I feel more that they will be like men on a mission.

[Fenster]

Book makers ain't exactly the most knowledgeable Boxing fans. Fact

That is one serious chump comment. Fact.

But tell me I'm wrong

Wrong. Bigtime wrong.

Major bookmakers not only employ experts to compile odds but also have inside info.

As Killer said, the odds are just a guide. A far better guide than someone on a forum saying "he has no chance" - anyone can say that.

So anyone that think's Haye has ZERO chance should save up all their pocket money, raid the piggybank and get stuck into that 2/5, which is obviuosly huge value

[rjj tszyu]

For the first time, I now think Haye can take both brothers. Vitali really showed signs of decline to me on saturday. I just hope he doesn't look past Ruiz and mess up first.

[Rantcatrat]

Although I asked earlier in the thread, I'll try again, for the people who think Haye will beat Vitali, can you explain your reasoning?

For as bad as Klitschko supposedly looked, did you know he threw more than 1000 punches? A heavyweight throwing a thousand punches? When was the last time that happened? Did you know he also thew 750 jabs? 750 jabs? That is a RECORD for a heavyweight. In fact, no other heavyweight has even come close to that number (the closest according to compubox was 600). Who cares if the jabs weren't strong punches? Moreover, check out the punch deficit: Johnson landed 65 total punches and Klitschko landed 300, Johnson landed 5 total power punches and Klitschko landed 140.

It seems to me that people are confusing a boring performance with a lousy performance. The two aren't the same.

Also, consider that in each fight Vitali somehow manages to dominate with a captial, and violent, D. He comes with a gameplan that is slightly altered for each opponent and it works every, single time. When was the last time he even lost a round? 2003? What makes you think Haye has the key to the puzzle that is Vitali Klitschko? His Hayemaker? Lennox punched harder than Vitali and Haye isn't even close to the Lennox level.

I am not bookie and can't claim to have the insight they have, but it appears that these odds are a classic case of hype getting in the way of logic.

It's a similar situation with the Pacquiao v. Mayweather odds. Pacquiao is the man, but no way he beats Mayweather and the odds are unreasonably close for that fight.

My money is on Mayweather and Klitschko. Fenster, where's yours?

[Fenster]

My money is on Mayweather and Klitschko. Fenster, where's yours?

At the current prices, my money would be on Vitali by KO/TKO/DQ (6/5) and Floyd by PTS (7/4)

I would be HOPING and in no way shocked if Haye beat Vitali and Pac beat Floyd though.

As I said earlier - Vitali is 38, injury prone and I don't care what anyone says or what the statistics say he looked poor TO ME on Saturday night

[Rantcatrat]

My money is on Mayweather and Klitschko. Fenster, where's yours?

At the current prices, my money would be on Vitali by KO/TKO/DQ (6/5) and Floyd by PTS (7/4)

I would be HOPING and in no way shocked if Haye beat Vitali and Pac beat Floyd though.

As I said earlier - Vitali is 38, injury prone and I don't care what anyone says or what the statistics say he looked poor TO ME on Saturday night

I agree with the Vitali and Floyd bets. I also hope Pac beats Floyd. I don't like Haye so I won't hope he wins, but for him, but as in Pac/Floyd, it probably would be good for boxing if Pac and/or Haye wins. I just don't see it happening.

Here's the thing about Vitali, who does he have to beat for people to begin to recognize his greatness? Unlike Floyd's situation, in which people say, Paul Williams or Shane Mosley etc, Vitali doesn't cherry pick, he fights everyone in his division. When he beats Haye and everyone else in the top ten, people will continue to doubt him, fair or not. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing him knock Valuev out.

With Haye, he received a big boost in publicity from simply challenging the Klitschkos even though he bitched out in the end for business reasons and probably had no intention of actually fighting them. Haye will probably pull more of the same now: make money off their name and continue to fight contenders until they are too old, someone beats them, or they retire. At the end of the day, it makes some business sense too. Why risk losing your marketability when you may be served by Vitali as opposed to stacking ends against lesser opponents?

[Fenster]

My money is on Mayweather and Klitschko. Fenster, where's yours?

At the current prices, my money would be on Vitali by KO/TKO/DQ (6/5) and Floyd by PTS (7/4)

I would be HOPING and in no way shocked if Haye beat Vitali and Pac beat Floyd though.

As I said earlier - Vitali is 38, injury prone and I don't care what anyone says or what the statistics say he looked poor TO ME on Saturday night

I agree with the Vitali and Floyd bets. I also hope Pac beats Floyd. I don't like Haye so I won't hope he wins, but for him, but as in Pac/Floyd, it probably would be good for boxing if Pac and/or Haye wins. I just don't see it happening.

Here's the thing about Vitali, who does he have to beat for people to begin to recognize his greatness? Unlike Floyd's situation, in which people say, Paul Williams or Shane Mosley etc, Vitali doesn't cherry pick, he fights everyone in his division. When he beats Haye and everyone else in the top ten, people will continue to doubt him, fair or not. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing him knock Valuev out.

With Haye, he received a big boost in publicity from simply challenging the Klitschkos even though he bitched out in the end for business reasons and probably had no intention of actually fighting them. Haye will probably pull more of the same now: make money off their name and continue to fight contenders until they are too old, someone beats them, or they retire. At the end of the day, it makes some business sense too. Why risk losing your marketability when you may be served by Vitali as opposed to stacking ends against lesser opponents?

You've got the wrong end of the stick with Haye... but whatever, you don't like him so nothing will change that for now.

As for Vitali - part of his problem is his brother. When you get TWO standout fighters in a division everyone needs them to fight. Obviously they can't. Two champs is bullshit. You need to be a stand alone heavyweight ruler to get serious attention/respect.