What to do about boxing judges?

[Master]

Judges should have their scores monitored and if there are consistant scores that are against the actual fight then they should go through a disciplinary and work improvement process. If they are found to be not fit to work then they should be sacked.

[killersheep]

Judges should have their scores monitored and if there are consistant scores that are against the actual fight then they should go through a disciplinary and work improvement process. If they are found to be not fit to work then they should be sacked.

The big problem here is who is responsible for this? Same problem with my pro/rel idea. If it's a sanctioning bodies responsibility or an athletic commission how do they enforce it to other groups?

[Master]

Judges should have their scores monitored and if there are consistant scores that are against the actual fight then they should go through a disciplinary and work improvement process. If they are found to be not fit to work then they should be sacked.

The big problem here is who is responsible for this? Same problem with my pro/rel idea. If it's a sanctioning bodies responsibility or an athletic commission how do they enforce it to other groups?

The state boxing fights are held at.

[Spicoli]

Judges should have their scores monitored and if there are consistent scores that are against the actual fight then they should go through a disciplinary and work improvement process. If they are found to be not fit to work then they should be sacked.

The big problem here is who is responsible for this? Same problem with my pro/rel idea. If it's a sanctioning bodies responsibility or an athletic commission how do they enforce it to other groups?

The state boxing fights are held at.

The kicker is we have a hand full of states that don't even have commissions and or have to "borrow" a neighbors or have no boxing at all. We've seen just recently that even some of the larger commissions cannot...or will not even enforce their own contracted specifications and requirements and overlook pre and post fight procedures.

There is no accountability for judges. I do think we are seeing certain cases of more reviews etc but on a large scale the judging process is all very helter skelter if not made up as the go. Judges should have zero interactions with promoters let alone having them seated 2,3 seats ringside in some cases. Its a drop in the bucket but all judges should be officially introduced on camera, before and after as scores are read. I don't want to put scarlet letters on them just a starting step to take away some of the anonymity. I don't see anything changing at all until we see some type of unified commission who will clean up its own house. Just far too many localized ties and influences.

[killersheep]

Judges should have their scores monitored and if there are consistant scores that are against the actual fight then they should go through a disciplinary and work improvement process. If they are found to be not fit to work then they should be sacked.

The big problem here is who is responsible for this? Same problem with my pro/rel idea. If it's a sanctioning bodies responsibility or an athletic commission how do they enforce it to other groups?

The state boxing fights are held at.

So if a judge is banned in New Jersey what's to stop them from judging in New York?

[killersheep]

Judges should have their scores monitored and if there are consistent scores that are against the actual fight then they should go through a disciplinary and work improvement process. If they are found to be not fit to work then they should be sacked.

The big problem here is who is responsible for this? Same problem with my pro/rel idea. If it's a sanctioning bodies responsibility or an athletic commission how do they enforce it to other groups?

The state boxing fights are held at.

The kicker is we have a hand full of states that don't even have commissions and or have to "borrow" a neighbors or have no boxing at all. We've seen just recently that even some of the larger commissions cannot...or will not even enforce their own contracted specifications and requirements and overlook pre and post fight procedures.

There is no accountability for judges. I do think we are seeing certain cases of more reviews etc but on a large scale the judging process is all very helter skelter if not made up as the go. Judges should have zero interactions with promoters let alone having them seated 2,3 seats ringside in some cases. Its a drop in the bucket but all judges should be officially introduced on camera, before and after as scores are read. I don't want to put scarlet letters on them just a starting step to take away some of the anonymity. I don't see anything changing at all until we see some type of unified commission who will clean up its own house. Just far too many localized ties and influences.

Yes a completely incorruptible international organization like FIFA.

Seriously though, I really hope we head in that direction. ONE set of rules, ONE champ per division, ONE organization responsible for enforcing the rules.

[Hulk]

I wanted to know what you guys thought should be done reform judges in boxing. Should ex-fighters be judges? Open scoring? Other ideas? Nothing has ever been done about the epidemic of bad judging decisions. Whether it be Macklin/Sturm or Cloud/Campillo, judges have consistently fucked up. Of course there are good ones, like the judges who scored the Rubio/Chavez fight and two of the judges for the Donaire/Vasquez fight. Let me know what your ideas are. I'm interested in hearing them

Bingo.

This is what I think should be done, obviously some ex-fighters could have a bias or prejudice against some promoters, trainers etc. But, the vast majority would judge fairly I feel as they know what its like to be SCREWED by the judges.

[Beanz]

There is probably nothing stopping ex boxers applying to be judges now. Why would they want to do it though? A lot of lower level boxers seem to become referees, but not judges. Is it a money issue?

[Master]

Same thing with ex-footballers, they do not earn enough and have too much aggro to deal with being a judge or referee.

[elcolibri]

I wanted to know what you guys thought should be done reform judges in boxing. Should ex-fighters be judges? Open scoring? Other ideas? Nothing has ever been done about the epidemic of bad judging decisions. Whether it be Macklin/Sturm or Cloud/Campillo, judges have consistently fucked up. Of course there are good ones, like the judges who scored the Rubio/Chavez fight and two of the judges for the Donaire/Vasquez fight. Let me know what your ideas are. I'm interested in hearing them

Interesting discussion here.

You guys may be interested in this site I helped build called Eye On The Ring. It's like Rotten Tomatoes, except instead of films, there's fights you can score (and rate). But the principle idea is a collective repository for fan cards. When the group of us who started the site had discussions about why we should build it, bad judging was a main issue discussed. (To be fair, I know of at least one other site that does what we do. But we hope to add so much more extra analysis to our data that we expect to be the best.)

Also this is the first time I've heard of the idea of a fourth judge. (I'm a new fan! Only got into boxing over the last couple few years...) But I don't know if more judges really will help.

[elcolibri]

I wanted to know what you guys thought should be done reform judges in boxing. Should ex-fighters be judges? Open scoring? Other ideas? Nothing has ever been done about the epidemic of bad judging decisions. Whether it be Macklin/Sturm or Cloud/Campillo, judges have consistently fucked up. Of course there are good ones, like the judges who scored the Rubio/Chavez fight and two of the judges for the Donaire/Vasquez fight. Let me know what your ideas are. I'm interested in hearing them

Interesting discussion here.

You guys may be interested in this site I helped build called Eye On The Ring. It's like Rotten Tomatoes, except instead of films, there's fights you can score (and rate). But the principle idea is a collective repository for fan cards. When the group of us who started the site had discussions about why we should build it, bad judging was a main issue discussed. (To be fair, I know of at least one other site that does what we do. But we hope to add so much more extra analysis to our data that we expect to be the best.)

Also this is the first time I've heard of the idea of a fourth judge. (I'm a new fan! Only got into boxing over the last couple few years...) But I don't know if more judges really will help.

Forgot to add link. But tried and can't until I have more posts -- you can find it at eye on the ring dot com if needed.

[Hulk]

There is probably nothing stopping ex boxers applying to be judges now. Why would they want to do it though? A lot of lower level boxers seem to become referees, but not judges. Is it a money issue?

Top level judges like Jerry Roth, Melvina Lathan, Duane Ford, Chuck Giampa, all make very good money.

Ex-fighters should replace them as top level judges, because all of the aforementioned judges have screwed over countless fighters, altering and ruining careers due to corruption and ignorance.

Mostly corruption.

[Spicoli]

There is probably nothing stopping ex boxers applying to be judges now. Why would they want to do it though? A lot of lower level boxers seem to become referees, but not judges. Is it a money issue?

Top level judges like Jerry Roth, Melvina Lathan, Duane Ford, Chuck Giampa, all make very good money.

Ex-fighters should replace them as top level judges, because all of the aforementioned judges have screwed over countless fighters, altering and ruining careers due to corruption and ignorance.

Mostly corruption.

I think there have been more than a few, I remember Harold Gomes was a judge for a number of years. While it may bring a more honest respect or perspective for what they are judging I dont think it would do away with the ever present influence of the promoter and governing body. I believe they ultimately decide if an official gets work...it almost seems similar to jury selection?!

One thing I've never been big on was how many judges serve as refs as well, even on same nights. You'd think it has to sway focus big time.

[redbaron]

I am always a fan of systems, in this case. I believe that judges should be rated class A, B, C, D, E etc.
Now fights would have to be ranked in order of importance:

A. Title fight
B. Eliminator
C. top 20 ranked fighters
D. top 50 ranked fighters
E. lower ranks, etc.
F. unsanctioned fights

This system of 6 ranks is simply for example and I'm not married to the idea. Now everyone starts as an F, in order to go from F to E judges would have to go through a certification program (fees can pay for the classes) that explains how to score a fight and includes testing and approval from a sanctioning body.

Now to move up from E to D a judge must judge 10 fights at lower levels without recourse from a sanctioning body. If the judge is found to be inept the cert can be revoked and the judge goes back an F status, otherwise they can apply to move up to D status.

This will continue from D to C, C to B and B to A. This makes incentive (bigger paydays) based on a successful track record as opposed to just knowing someone.

I like this idea very much. Someone should hire you to implement this sort of program. I just wish someone high-ranking in the boxing world would have the balls to propose it.

[TitoFan]

Flog them unmercifully.

Just kidding (I think). I saw someone was browsing this thread and thought it was an appropriate one to bump at this time.