Cotto"s only HOPE to wın ıs by KO FAST

[TitoFan]

For the record, I happen to think Cotto could've beaten Pacquiao had he had Pedro Diaz in his corner like he had for Margarito II. Even without a corner, Cotto was snapping Manny's head back with an excellent jab early in the fight. With a good fight plan, Cotto had a better than average chance to pull off the upset. But... that's water under the bridge. Mayweather, I'll admit, is a more difficult style matchup for Cotto than Pacquiao is. Too bad Pac-Cotto II didn't happen.

[p4pking]

He isn't more comfortable moving than he used to be per say, merely less comfortable exchanging punches imo. Cotto always had tremendous skills when he wanted to use them. Does anyone really think that if Margarito was the same fighter who beat Miguel, he would've been kept at bay completely like that in the rematch? Whether he used loaded wraps or not in the first fight, Margarito had dick all left and it was a great chance for Cotto to look good. Now I understand why Cotto was safety first in that fight of course. He had real reason to be wary and he deserves a lot of credit for not letting Tony lay hands on him. I just don't think it was in any way a good preparation for this one. As Rant said, Miguel hasn't fought anyone with a modicum of real skills since Pacquiao and may have a false sense that he can be successful boxing here. I expect him to get completely lost after the opening rounds without a plan C.

[Rantcatrat]

It's tough not to like Cotto. He's the epitomy of a likeable fighter. He's had a great career, borderline Hall of Fame. He's a proven warrior. He's a gentemen outside the ring. Heck, as evidence, I've never seen Floyd so complimentary toward an opponent before a fight.

However, let's be honest with ourselves, Cotto has zero chance of winning this fight. What follows are the reasons.

(1) Cotto doesn't have a single physical advantage over Floyd: (i) he's not faster; (ii) he's not fresher; and (iii) he's not bigger. Correct on all counts.

(2) The current Cotto doesn't present any stylistic problems for Floyd. He not a bigger, pressure fighter, which just based on styles, should be the toughest style for Floyd. The new Cotto boxes more, but he's not a better boxer than Floyd. Again... no issues here.

(3) Cotto is ill-prepared for the fight because he has never faced elite competition at 154 and he's been relatively inactive the last couple of years. The theory that the promoters are pumping out that Cotto will be tough beacause the fight is at 154 is smoke and mirrors at its finest. Actions speak louder than words. Cotto has showed us nothing to make us believe that he is more effective at 154. Cotto hasn't had one challenging fight on paper, at any weight class, since he lost to Pacquiao. In a relatively decent division, he hasn't faced one top ten junior middleweight. It's remarkable really that the Ring Magazine has ranked him that high for a win over Yuri Foreman. This is just my theory, but I believe Cotto isn't fighting at 147 any longer because he's a veteran that doesn't want to deal with cutting weight. Frankly, there are a number of guys, besides Floyd and Manny, between 147 and 160 that would probably beat Cotto right now. To my untrained eye, Cotto hasn't been the same since Margarito I. That doesn't equate to saying Cotto isn't still a very good fighter, because he is, but he's no longer a p4p level fighter. Not sure whether I agree with all of this. See my comments below.

(4) Mayweather is the best p4p fighter in the world.

Where does all that leave us? Cotto, who is on a downward trajectory and hasn't faced an elite fighter since Pacqauio, facing the best fighter in the entire world. It's not a recipe for success if you're a Cotto fan. There's just no other way to look at it.

Expect Mayweather to dominate Cotto from round 2 onward. In addition, because Cotto fades in the later rounds of fights, a good bet would be a late round technical knockout, maybe his corner throwing in the towel after Cotto has lost most of the rounds.

Note that in no way is this post meant as a slight on Cotto. He's a terrific boxer who has had an exemplary career.

Well thought out post and some excellent points, Rant. However, there are some things you've omitted. See my imbedded comments above, and some additional ones below.

1. I agree that Cotto's best weight is 147. His height and frame are best suited for that division. He's done acceptably well at 154, but 147 is his natural weight. However, Floyd himself comes from the lower divisions. So he is by no means the naturally larger man himself. Powerwise, I think Cotto has the edge.

2. Cotto lost to a cheating Margarito, and was beaten by Pacquaio after abandoning his fight plan early in the fight and going toe-to-toe with the faster Pac. The latter was completely the product of Cotto having a nobody in his corner. He had feuded with his uncle, Evangelista, and had hooked up with Joe Santiago, who had nothing to offer to Miguel. Nothing. Had he had the corner he has now, with Cuban trainer Pedro Diaz, it might have been a whole 'nother story.

3. With Diaz in his corner, Cotto has shown the remarkable ability to reinvent himself. To go back to his boxing and ring generalship roots, when he used to dismantle his opponents with a mixture of hooks to the body, good movement, and power shots inside. He did just that against the much bigger Margarito in their rematch.


So while none of this obviously necessarily translates into a Cotto victory, it does mean he has a better chance than most people give him against Mayweather.

The only other disagreement I have is your HOF assessment. Lots of less worthy fighters have been picked for the HOF. Cotto, in my opinion, is a shoo-in.

Thanks for the kind words, Tito.

Diaz looks a great coach for Cotto, but it's one thing to implement a plan against Margarito, it's quite another to implement a plan against Mayweather. Also, for the record, even in the Margarito fight, he appeared to be fading toward the end. I'm not sure if Diaz can fix that type of problem.

As to the weight class issue, I actually think Floyd may be more effective at his age at 150 than he would be at 147, at least I don't believe it'll negatively affect him.

[TitoFan]

It's tough not to like Cotto. He's the epitomy of a likeable fighter. He's had a great career, borderline Hall of Fame. He's a proven warrior. He's a gentemen outside the ring. Heck, as evidence, I've never seen Floyd so complimentary toward an opponent before a fight.

However, let's be honest with ourselves, Cotto has zero chance of winning this fight. What follows are the reasons.

(1) Cotto doesn't have a single physical advantage over Floyd: (i) he's not faster; (ii) he's not fresher; and (iii) he's not bigger. Correct on all counts.

(2) The current Cotto doesn't present any stylistic problems for Floyd. He not a bigger, pressure fighter, which just based on styles, should be the toughest style for Floyd. The new Cotto boxes more, but he's not a better boxer than Floyd. Again... no issues here.

(3) Cotto is ill-prepared for the fight because he has never faced elite competition at 154 and he's been relatively inactive the last couple of years. The theory that the promoters are pumping out that Cotto will be tough beacause the fight is at 154 is smoke and mirrors at its finest. Actions speak louder than words. Cotto has showed us nothing to make us believe that he is more effective at 154. Cotto hasn't had one challenging fight on paper, at any weight class, since he lost to Pacquiao. In a relatively decent division, he hasn't faced one top ten junior middleweight. It's remarkable really that the Ring Magazine has ranked him that high for a win over Yuri Foreman. This is just my theory, but I believe Cotto isn't fighting at 147 any longer because he's a veteran that doesn't want to deal with cutting weight. Frankly, there are a number of guys, besides Floyd and Manny, between 147 and 160 that would probably beat Cotto right now. To my untrained eye, Cotto hasn't been the same since Margarito I. That doesn't equate to saying Cotto isn't still a very good fighter, because he is, but he's no longer a p4p level fighter. Not sure whether I agree with all of this. See my comments below.

(4) Mayweather is the best p4p fighter in the world.

Where does all that leave us? Cotto, who is on a downward trajectory and hasn't faced an elite fighter since Pacqauio, facing the best fighter in the entire world. It's not a recipe for success if you're a Cotto fan. There's just no other way to look at it.

Expect Mayweather to dominate Cotto from round 2 onward. In addition, because Cotto fades in the later rounds of fights, a good bet would be a late round technical knockout, maybe his corner throwing in the towel after Cotto has lost most of the rounds.

Note that in no way is this post meant as a slight on Cotto. He's a terrific boxer who has had an exemplary career.

Well thought out post and some excellent points, Rant. However, there are some things you've omitted. See my imbedded comments above, and some additional ones below.

1. I agree that Cotto's best weight is 147. His height and frame are best suited for that division. He's done acceptably well at 154, but 147 is his natural weight. However, Floyd himself comes from the lower divisions. So he is by no means the naturally larger man himself. Powerwise, I think Cotto has the edge.

2. Cotto lost to a cheating Margarito, and was beaten by Pacquaio after abandoning his fight plan early in the fight and going toe-to-toe with the faster Pac. The latter was completely the product of Cotto having a nobody in his corner. He had feuded with his uncle, Evangelista, and had hooked up with Joe Santiago, who had nothing to offer to Miguel. Nothing. Had he had the corner he has now, with Cuban trainer Pedro Diaz, it might have been a whole 'nother story.

3. With Diaz in his corner, Cotto has shown the remarkable ability to reinvent himself. To go back to his boxing and ring generalship roots, when he used to dismantle his opponents with a mixture of hooks to the body, good movement, and power shots inside. He did just that against the much bigger Margarito in their rematch.


So while none of this obviously necessarily translates into a Cotto victory, it does mean he has a better chance than most people give him against Mayweather.

The only other disagreement I have is your HOF assessment. Lots of less worthy fighters have been picked for the HOF. Cotto, in my opinion, is a shoo-in.

Thanks for the kind words, Tito.

Diaz looks a great coach for Cotto, but it's one thing to implement a plan against Margarito, it's quite another to implement a plan against Mayweather. Also, for the record, even in the Margarito fight, he appeared to be fading toward the end. I'm not sure if Diaz can fix that type of problem.

As to the weight class issue, I actually think Floyd may be more effective at his age at 150 than he would be at 147, at least I don't believe it'll negatively affect him.

I don't know. Maybe I'm putting too much stock into the Diaz issue. But fact is... Cotto was trained by his uncle until they began feuding. From there, Cotto went with a nobody. Why the hell he did that... nobody knows. Only that Cotto wanted to call his own shots. A big mistake. Pedro Diaz was an excellent boxing trainer with the amateur Cuban team. He has unorthodox training techniques, and.... he makes it clear WHO is the boss in the preparation. I think it's something Cotto sorely needed. I'm pretty sure he (Diaz) must've addressed the stamina issues. Again... I don't know. Mayweather is a steeper hill to climb than a rematch with Pacquiao would've been. But you never know. I guess we'll find out on May 5th.

[Althugz]

Also for the record P4p, I do see Mayweather winning this fight by eventual stoppage. So again, we're in agreement there.That doesn't make him any less of a credible opponent is all I'm saying. I see Floyd stopping Pac too if they eventually get it going.

Cotto is a credible opponent for anyone at or around 147-160. He's a borderline hall of fame boxer. He's got a good mix of talent and skills and he's a warrior. However, what makes his attractive as an opponent for Mayweather has nothing to do with his skills and all to do with his name and the money he brings to the table. I think there are several fighters at or around that weight that beat Cotto.

Like I said in another post, I don't believe Cotto has been the same since Margarito I. He seems fragile. In addition, I don't think he's any better at 154 than he was 147. I actually think at 154 he's probably more beatable because of his size. He's too small for a big junior middleweight.

Well the only challenge for Floyd at this point that might make him even remotely uncomfortable is Martinez at 160. I actually have a funny feeling he might go that route next. Roger hinted at it.
But beyond Pacquiao I cant think of a better fight at the moment than Cotto vs Floyd. His last fight he gave the young up and comer a shot at his throne and now he's giving it to a credible champion. I see nothing wrong with his opponent selection. (apart from the pathetic excuses both he and Pacquiao come up with for not getting it on but hey)

[Rantcatrat]

Also for the record P4p, I do see Mayweather winning this fight by eventual stoppage. So again, we're in agreement there.That doesn't make him any less of a credible opponent is all I'm saying. I see Floyd stopping Pac too if they eventually get it going.

Cotto is a credible opponent for anyone at or around 147-160. He's a borderline hall of fame boxer. He's got a good mix of talent and skills and he's a warrior. However, what makes his attractive as an opponent for Mayweather has nothing to do with his skills and all to do with his name and the money he brings to the table. I think there are several fighters at or around that weight that beat Cotto.

Like I said in another post, I don't believe Cotto has been the same since Margarito I. He seems fragile. In addition, I don't think he's any better at 154 than he was 147. I actually think at 154 he's probably more beatable because of his size. He's too small for a big junior middleweight.

Well the only challenge for Floyd at this point that might make him even remotely uncomfortable is Martinez at 160. I actually have a funny feeling he might go that route next. Roger hinted at it.
But beyond Pacquiao I cant think of a better fight at the moment than Cotto vs Floyd. His last fight he gave the young up and comer a shot at his throne and now he's giving it to a credible champion. I see nothing wrong with his opponent selection. (apart from the pathetic excuses both he and Pacquiao come up with for not getting it on but hey)

I don't really disagree given what's out there. Lara would be a tougher challenge than Cotto, but who wants to face Lara? He brings no money to the table and he's tough. One thing that bothers me is why is Cotto ranked number one at junior middleweight? He hasn't faced anyone in the top ten.

[Slim the BoxingManiac]

[QUOTE=Althugz;1068157][QUOTE=Slim the BoxingManiac;1068096][QUOTE=armin;1067815][QUOTE=Slim the BoxingManiac;1067808]

Every person that's on Floyd's nuts right now doesn't seem to realize his cherry picking ways. far above the level of fighters cotto has fought recently, don't think the

Shane was still shot. Margarito's golden wraps were taken, of course he wasn't going to win the fight. Marquez was top level, but he wasn't good for the weight. He hadn't taken the proper time to go up to the weight like he did in his last fight with Manny. Ortiz is crap. Plain crap. The only victory that gives him any light is the one against Berto. Berto sucks, too. The both of them collectively suck at boxing. But the point stands. In his entire career, Ortiz had ONE notable victory. ONE. Don't even try to tell me that he was top level.


Also, Cotto was not weight drained for the Pac fight, fellas. He was one pound lighter. One pound. In the fight before Manny, he was at 146, and against Manny he weighed 145. There should be a minimum two pound weight loss before we should even halfheartedly joke that somebody is weight drained.

You know what collectively sucks? Your posting coupled with your mates fighting each other on youtube in some caravan site..For some reason..like many on this site, you're totally and irrationally butthurt about Floyd.

I agree with Lyle here. How the furk is Cotto anywhere near shot or damaged goods? I haven't seen him slip..I've seen his style change for sure. He's on his toes a lot more but that's a great adjustment on his part, no? Better defense. Sure he doesn't work the body as hard but the dude can box and box well! I don't give a shit what people say about the Pacquiao fight either because if Cotto was such easy pickings why did Pacquiao want to drain him again at 145 for the rematch?? And if it wasn't a problem for Cotto why did Cotto refuse this time round? He clearly DOESN'T feel comfy at 145 regardless of what you, as fans might say.

Two things piss me off about this thread. Boxing fans disrespect about Cotto and once again the hindsight that Shane was "shot" and that his win over "Margarito" was a given. Gtfo of here!! How many of you picked him to win? "Oh Margaritos head wasn't in it"...sure whatever you say.
These are the same cry babies that said "Omg Floyd MUST MUST MUST fight Shane!! He's scared..he's duckin n dodging him!!"......Then he signs up to fight him.."Oh erm..respect I guess. Didnt think Floyd would step up"

Of course he does a number on him and Shane got old "Mid fight" Never heard that one before??

If you could hear yourselves you'd slap yourself in the face for being so retarded.

You guys are the biggest Floyd fans of all if you think this fight is gonna be a stroll in the park for him. You guys obviously rate him highly!

If it does end up being a stroll for him, then damn...he's good. Straight up.

Alright, mate. Lets have a rational discussion about this. To aid us, we'll use numbered points.

1. My sparring session with my buddy has nothing to do with anything. Nothing at all. I live in South Dakota. We have more cows than people. I could very well be using my time by doing copious amounts of drugs, or something neat like that. Why does that video bother you so much?

2. Irrationally butthurt about Floyd? My problem with Floyd is that everybody is rating him too highly. There's a lot of boxing fans out there that are saying that Floyd is going to make easy work of Cotto, as if Cotto isn't the best fighter he's fought in four years. Cotto has an excellent resume and an excellent set of skills, but because of his fights with Margarito and Pac, they're choosing to believe he's over the hill. I firmly believe them to be mistaken. Will Cotto win? Probably not, but I really do hope so. He's a lot better than people are giving him credit for. I don't like Floyd as a person, but he's gained a lot of my respect by fighting Cotto, as well as my $60 for the PPV next Saturday. As a fighter, he's a genius, and he deserves a good portion of the praise he gets.

3. You make a very valid point about Cotto being comfortable with his weight, but I don't see much evidence suggesting that the one pound weight difference was so immediate in effect. In the long term, of course, there is a reason that he moved up to the Light Middleweight division.

4. I agree with your points about the boxing fans. But I honestly don't remember there being such a clamor in the boxing community to see Shane vs. Mayweather. Of course, my memory has been wrong before.

Cheers.

[DavilaJones]

In some ways this fight remeinds me of Martinez vs Macklin. Everyone expected Macklin to fight the way he normally does and he did something truly unexpected and I think won quite a few rounds too vs the champ.

The trick is to do something no one expects you to do and execute that plan well. In my mind the only thing I can think of is if Cotto forces Mayweather to press and increase his punch output then he would gain an advantage simply by the fact that he's forcing his opponent to conform to his game plan.

This being said the most important part is to execute the plan well. I do not know if he can do this consistently for 12 rounds and be successful.

[denilson200]

Floyd has stamina, and he might also be extremely durable his skills have prevented as from having to find out and I think that it'll be the same here. As I said before I think floyd takes this something like 9 to 3 or maybe late stopage. As I said before I really think cotto is damaged goods and has been for a while.

Floyd does have stamina and his defense is awesome, but we don't know if he can take consistent punishment from a guy who will be there for at least 9 rounds. Miguel Cotto can win rounds, and if he can rough Floyd up then we may have an upset on our hands.

Remember when Bernard Hopkins was seemingly untouchable at 160? That's the way I see Floyd. Their strengths in defense, getting their opponents to fight the way they want to fight, and sneaky power/stamina really casts an aura of invincibility over them. But time stands still for no one and although Floyd is faster, has a bit of an advantage in reach & height, and is a more skilled pure boxer, Miguel Cotto is a big boy and will weigh close to 165 (ballpark guess) if not more come fight night will have an edge on power, and unlike most of Floyd's other opponents Cotto can switch up to southpaw and be just as effective.


What I'm saying is, no matter how great Floyd looks right now Miguel Cotto is a very live underdog who fights with a lot of heart and will give 100% out there in the ring. For the first time in a while Floyd will have to EARN a win and that right there is good for boxing. The fact that Alvarez could lose to Mosely on the undercard makes this a night of boxing I refuse to miss out on.


Win or lose for Cotto May 5th is going to be a great night of boxing!

Cotto has two chances. Slim and none...and slim just left town.

Cotto will not win a round.

[El Kabong]

Cotto has two chances. Slim and none...and slim just left town.

Cotto will not win a round.

That's your take on it and that's fine, Mayweather has given us no reason to think he'll lose anytime soon, but stranger things have happened. Cotto is bigger & stronger than Marquez and he's more polished than Ortiz....I like his chances better than those guys. Cotto also boxes better than Mosley at this point in time. So yes I'm cheering for Cotto, but I understand he's an underdog.

[Slim the BoxingManiac]

Floyd has stamina, and he might also be extremely durable his skills have prevented as from having to find out and I think that it'll be the same here. As I said before I think floyd takes this something like 9 to 3 or maybe late stopage. As I said before I really think cotto is damaged goods and has been for a while.

Floyd does have stamina and his defense is awesome, but we don't know if he can take consistent punishment from a guy who will be there for at least 9 rounds. Miguel Cotto can win rounds, and if he can rough Floyd up then we may have an upset on our hands.

Remember when Bernard Hopkins was seemingly untouchable at 160? That's the way I see Floyd. Their strengths in defense, getting their opponents to fight the way they want to fight, and sneaky power/stamina really casts an aura of invincibility over them. But time stands still for no one and although Floyd is faster, has a bit of an advantage in reach & height, and is a more skilled pure boxer, Miguel Cotto is a big boy and will weigh close to 165 (ballpark guess) if not more come fight night will have an edge on power, and unlike most of Floyd's other opponents Cotto can switch up to southpaw and be just as effective.


What I'm saying is, no matter how great Floyd looks right now Miguel Cotto is a very live underdog who fights with a lot of heart and will give 100% out there in the ring. For the first time in a while Floyd will have to EARN a win and that right there is good for boxing. The fact that Alvarez could lose to Mosely on the undercard makes this a night of boxing I refuse to miss out on.


Win or lose for Cotto May 5th is going to be a great night of boxing!

Cotto has two chances. Slim and none...and slim just left town.

Cotto will not win a round.

I'm sorry, what? Are you completely retarded?

[Rantcatrat]

Cotto has two chances. Slim and none...and slim just left town.

Cotto will not win a round.

That's your take on it and that's fine, Mayweather has given us no reason to think he'll lose anytime soon, but stranger things have happened. Cotto is bigger & stronger than Marquez and he's more polished than Ortiz....I like his chances better than those guys. Cotto also boxes better than Mosley at this point in time. So yes I'm cheering for Cotto, but I understand he's an underdog.

He's too slow and he's not at his best weight class. Moreover, I'm not convinced Cotto has the hunger that it appeared he had in previous years. Margarito may have zapped him of it.

[El Kabong]

He's too slow and he's not at his best weight class. Moreover, I'm not convinced Cotto has the hunger that it appeared he had in previous years. Margarito may have zapped him of it.

People have said Cotto was too slow for years and it only hurt him 1 time vs Pac when he fought at 145 and without a trainer! They said Shane was too quick, Zab was too quick, and Miguel won both of those handily! Cotto has always been stone faced so he doesn't go all out in attack anymore it doesn't mean he's not dedicated.

[Master]

In some ways this fight remeinds me of Martinez vs Macklin. Everyone expected Macklin to fight the way he normally does and he did something truly unexpected and I think won quite a few rounds too vs the champ.

The trick is to do something no one expects you to do and execute that plan well. In my mind the only thing I can think of is if Cotto forces Mayweather to press and increase his punch output then he would gain an advantage simply by the fact that he's forcing his opponent to conform to his game plan.

This being said the most important part is to execute the plan well. I do not know if he can do this consistently for 12 rounds and be successful.

100% agree, Cotto needs a good strategy to win the rounds one at a time. Simple in theory, difficult in practice especially against Floyd.

[Althugz]

Cotto has two chances. Slim and none...and slim just left town.

Cotto will not win a round.

That's your take on it and that's fine, Mayweather has given us no reason to think he'll lose anytime soon, but stranger things have happened. Cotto is bigger & stronger than Marquez and he's more polished than Ortiz....I like his chances better than those guys. Cotto also boxes better than Mosley at this point in time. So yes I'm cheering for Cotto, but I understand he's an underdog.

He's too slow and he's not at his best weight class. Moreover, I'm not convinced Cotto has the hunger that it appeared he had in previous years. Margarito may have zapped him of it.

Now you're just clutching at straws. You have zero basis for the statements you just made - Lyle debunked your speed argument, the weight class issue..well he obviously feels its where he needs to be right now or would be at 147. Then the whole, "he's not hungry". Really? You don't think he's hungry against Floyd?? Nonsense imo

Slim :

1+2 - I dont have a problem with what you choose to film. Thats just an aside - it's your over emotional, yes irrational posting towards Floyd Mayweather. I dont think anybody overates him. He is what he is. Probably the best in our era who is still an active fighter. Another I'm sure that will be appreciated more when he's gone although if he and Pac fail to fight each other, it will slightly taint their legacy.
You start having a fit about how people are on his nuts ane he cherry picks blah blah. Every champion has at some point cherry picked and if we look back neutrally Floyd is nowhere near one of the worst offenders IMO it's how far ahead in skills he is that annoys people.

3+4 There was a HUGE clamour for MAyweather Mosley! Especiallg after the Margarito win, the noise about how Floyd is scared of Shane got louder. Nobody thought Floyd would sign for that fight but to a lot of peoples surprise, he did. Not to pick on him but Miles/Gandalf is one I distictly remember giving him respect for doing so and post-fight gave him shit for fighting a "shot mosley". I have the memory of an elephant

Well done for having a civilised debate though.