What heavyweights of the past 50 years could Jack Dempsey NOT beat?

[brocktonblockbust]

Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Holyfield, Bowe, Lyle, Tyson

[erics44]

Bruno

[Beanflicker]

Jack was the shit for his time, but times change, technique improves and evolves, and obviously our athletes are a lot biggers, stronger and faster than they were 100 years ago.

I looked at a list of the world champs over the last 50 years (from Patterson on) and honestly I wouldn't pick Dempsey against any of them.

And I certainly have a hard time believing he'd do anything against our modern super-heavyweights. I know people will point out that Jess Willard was a legit SHW, but 1) Jess Willard was a bum and 2) he didn't have the explosive athletic ability combined with skill that a modern SHW has.

[El Kabong]

I'm fairly certain he would NOT beat either Klitschko Brother...might change if you use the old timey rules where you didn't have to go to a neutral corner during a knockdown, but really Dempsey was tiny and wild...easily outboxed by Gene Tunney (one of the most underrated of all times) so it wouldn't be hard to see Dempsey getting the shit boxed out of him vs solid technical fighters.

[beenKOed]

Jack was the shit for his time, but times change, technique improves and evolves, and obviously our athletes are a lot biggers, stronger and faster than they were 100 years ago.

I looked at a list of the world champs over the last 50 years (from Patterson on) and honestly I wouldn't pick Dempsey against any of them.

And I certainly have a hard time believing he'd do anything against our modern super-heavyweights. I know people will point out that Jess Willard was a legit SHW, but 1) Jess Willard was a bum and 2) he didn't have the explosive athletic ability combined with skill that a modern SHW has.

I agree, but not positive about Patterson.
The question should be about the cruiserweight division, in my opinion.
I don't really like this thread because no matter how you word a negative answer, it sounds like you are putting down Dempsey which is the last thing I want to do.

[IamInuit]

50 years eh...so from circa 1960 on. Half the time he would be the fox in the hen house and for the other half he'd be one of the hens. I personally don't think he makes the top from the mid to late 60's
to the same time in the seventies. I think he would even have his hands full with guys like Quarry.

In the eighties/nineties he and Tyson would look very Hearns/Hagler like. Jack doesn't make it out of the ring on his feet. Lewis, Ruddick, Bruno all beat him. Toney Tucker would probably pick him apart. He had real issues with anyone who could box a lick. He was the last of the grapplers and actually studied in right up the the first Tunney fight where he was the one that asked for the new neutral corner rule and then ignored it giving Tunney the long count. Jack beats the Mitch Greens and Jessie Fergusons of the world though.

So now to this era. I think Wlad and Vitali destroy him although getting a shot in on the younger brother could change things. I don't think he gets that shot in on the present day Wlad. I think Haye would be to much for him athletically but I think he would walk down most of the others in this era. Speaking of Willard well that's exactly what Helinus would look like. There is just something really lacking in the so-called heavyweight contenders of this era. Its like they don't really want it. Drunk on the riches of mediocrity and lacking that real edge. Dempsey avoided/ducked several fighters in his day including little Greb and Langford.

[Beanflicker]

I agree, but not positive about Patterson.
The question should be about the cruiserweight division, in my opinion.

I think Patterson's speed would be too much for him.

[El Kabong]

I think Patterson's speed would be too much for him.

Interesting fight though

Others to consider: Marciano, Johanssen, Liston, Cobb, Quarry, Bob Foster, Dwight Qawi, Holyfield, Joe Frazier, Tommy Hearns, James Toney, Eubank, Roy Jones Jr., Jirov, Michalzweski, Michael Spinks, Walcott, Charles, LaStarza, Max Baer, Braddock, etc.

[Master]

Ezzard Charles, Marciano, Patterson, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman ....hang on the question should be who could he beat.

[gest12645]

many would beat him. Even David Haye. Pulev even. Dempsey isn't as great as people make him - historians.

[ray corso]

.........bigger, faster, stronger BUT..............................Dumber! I don't see "modern times" in boxing meaning anything in quality and talents and techniques!
Jack Johnson was ahead of his times then. Joe Louis was a combination puncher with power in both hands! Willie Pep and Benny Leonard wewre "Master Boxer" and theres no one today who can match their artistry! Sugar Ray Robinson is still the best boxer/puncher ever and he retired in 65'!
I know the younger generation compares the Klitz Bros to the greats and actually considers them great fighters but I don't!! Their one dimentional and work in the weakest heavy era of all time! Its NOT their fault but that doesn't make them great, it makes them dominate in a weak era.
I look at the skill base! How the jab is delivered, when its delivederd and how! Is the technique solid or is a give away punch that a quality fighter could detect and capitilize on. The same goes for ALL of the fighters arsonal!!! Evaluating tecyhniques then comparing them is how you can get a truer idea as to how the past meets the now!!! Not looking at records or common opponents. Thats for the amatuers to contend with! Floyd Mayweather is a technically sound fighter and is capable of adapting to any situation but I'd bet anything that Sugar Ray Robinson would "destroy" him inside of 8 rounds!!! Henry Armstrong would wear sneakers just to catch him!! No offense to Floyd but he is NOT an ATG at welter, he's way to small and has no power compared to the great welters. At best he's be a lightweigh or a + pounds at 135 (modern day junior weight class crap) 140lbs.
If someone can demonstrate a new technique in training I'd love to see it! Or something that a fighter is doing thats never been done! When the greatest fighters, trainers and cornermen are from the past how is the so called new techniques and modern mehtods learned and what are these "methods"? Ray.

[Spicoli]

Pretty sure Dempsey would have had Seldon wetting himself at the opening bell and lifted his strap . The guy was small and unrefined by todays standards, but he wasn't some mindless iceman coming from the depths of a cave. Fierce mentality and win at all cost attitude in the ring may have been Jacks biggest edge taken from that era and brought to ours.

[Mr140]

Well he would not even fight most of the Heavyweights because they were black for one thing and he woud not get in the ring with him. I think he gets his ass handed to him by most heavyweights form the 40s on word. He was great for his time but he was not even the top dog then because he ducked the best guys and when he fought one of them got owned. I mean Tunney was a great fighter but he was not even a heavyweight really and boxed jacks ears off to the point of making him look like a bum.

[brocktonblockbust]

great thought-provoking thread. Yeah Dempsey was a bit wild wasnt he.

[Dia bando]

One thing Dempsey had, heart the will to win he may not have been the most skillful, but you
would have to nail him to the floor to beat him.!
At that point in the history of boxing a great Champ,probable most of the modern HW would
have beaten him, but one thing they would known they had been in a FIGHT.