In my eyes, Mayweather-Alvarez proves Arum was the problem

[Beanflicker]

I'm sure Arum deserves his fair share of the blame, he's a scumbag we all know that. But IMO it was the ego of two prima-donna boxing talents that got in the way of this mega fight.

[Rantcatrat]

What were the numbers for the Guerrero-Floyd fight?

[Master]

Yes Arum is to blame but if Manny really wanted the fight he could have forced Arum to make it.

[Vendettos]

Not to be a dick but, we all knew this.

However I don't think Floyd was disappointed that the fight never happened.

He would have gotten less money percentage vs Pacquiao because he's also a big draw.

However now he'd get a much bigger chunk since Pacquiao has lost 2, so I believe Floyd would be happier to accept now.

[Manju]

The problem with this argument is that, to put it in Scientific Method terms, Alvarez does not control for PacMan. You haven't isolated the variable to Arum.

In other words, while Alvarez is a top lb-4-lber, he's still not where PacMan was during the time in question: a sure-fire HOFer who may very well break the top-10 or even 5 all-time list.

So, its still possible that fear of PacMan was the problem. Not saying it was, but its plausible. In other words, if you have the courage to chat up a pretty girl at the local pub, it doesn't follow that you would've necessarily done the same with Megan Fox.

[g3org3]

The problem with this argument is that, to put it in Scientific Method terms, Alvarez does not control for PacMan. You haven't isolated the variable to Arum.

In other words, while Alvarez is a top lb-4-lber, he's still not where PacMan was during the time in question: a sure-fire HOFer who may very well break the top-10 or even 5 all-time list.

So, its still possible that fear of PacMan was the problem. Not saying it was, but its plausible. In other words, if you have the courage to chat up a pretty girl at the local pub, it doesn't follow that you would've necessarily done the same with Megan Fox.

Are your serious pacman top 10 or 5 of all time bullshit

[Manju]

Are your serious pacman top 10 or 5 of all time bullshit

Well, during the timeframe in question...approximately from Pac's ODLH fight to the Margarito one (with Hatton, Cotto, and Clottey in between) the idea of PacMan being ranked that high seemed plausible.

Indeed, the Mayweather camp's reaction lends credence to the argument. Those fights formed the basis of the "Pac must be doing PEDs" theory. No fighter in history coming up that much in weight had proceeded to dominate like Pac did. That was PBF & Co's own argument. We were witnessing something unprecedented, something impossible to do without cheating. And frankly, I don't blame them for being skeptical.

But if you don't blame them, then you must concede that Pac was doing something historical. Roberto Duran, who routinely cracks the top-10 and is somewhat comparable to Pac, was not able to dominate welterweights like this...and he was bigger than PacMan.

Does the KO to JMM now put him out of the running? I haven't the slightest, but its irrelevant. The PacMan who dominated welters is the one we are comparing to Alvarez. They are in different leagues.

Having said that, what will likely really prevent Pac from cracking the top-10 is the PBF non-fight. The same may apply to PBF himself. Had these 2 men met in their prime, the winner would've likely been catapulted up to the cream of the all-time crop. They needed each other.

So take PBF for example. No matter what he does, its going to be hard to rank him above SRL. The latter defeated Duran, Hagler, and Hearns....at or close to their primes. PBF has JMM, thats impressive. Maybe ODLH and Mosely, but they were aging. But a win against a prime PacMan could've realistically catapulted him over SRL, given the rest of his dominance.

And the reason that is, is because the prime PacMan commanded a prime-Duran level of respect.