Does anyone think George Zimmerman is guilty of murder?

[greynotsoold]

We had an incident near here last week where a man returned to his home, in an area a bit off the path, and found a strange car in his drive and his front door kicked in. He took his pistol from his glovebox, went inside as was confronted by a guy with a pillowcase full of the homeowner's property. He shot the man dead. It turned out that that man had already broken into and robbed several other homes in that area.
What I couldn't believe was the response. Rather, the number of people saying that the homeowner had an 'obligation' not to enter his house- thereby provoking a confrontation- and that he should have locked himself in his vehicle and called the police. That got shouted down pretty quickly- this is Montana, after all- but I think we have let to many Californians move here.

[El Kabong]

Who started the condescending shit on this thread, asshole?
Take a good guess.

Need some help?
Look back through the thread.
You responded to a post of mine directed at someone else with your patented sarcasm.

But no-o-o-o-o-o-o-o......
You'd rather keep up your obnoxious shit and continue it, until someone slaps your ass down.

I asked a simple question which you ignored....did you just now go back and get irritated about it? And the whole pushing thing....the fuck was that about "If someone pushes you can you shoot them?"....when I read posts like that I wonder if you have difficulty understanding when someone has an opportunity to remove themselves from a situation which could be dangerous. In the case of George Zimmerman, he apparently wasn't offered such a window to leave without firing a shot.





Doesn't look like it was just something as innocent and avoidable as a "push" to me. My main gripe is with the media coverage which has looked like this



To be honest I'm not affected either way guilty, not guilty whatever, but I'm also not going to parse out every single time when using a gun is justified especially to someone hell bent on gun control.

[TitoFan]

Ok, I'm just saying... where do you draw the line regarding "being in danger".

Without getting off topic, I'd be careful with that kind of legislation. What if someone cuts in front of you at a hardware store line? What if you think rightly or wrongly that someone looked a little too long at your girlfriend? What if you complain in either of those cases... and the other guy is armed? Will he feel threatened and in danger? It just opens a whole 'nother can of worms.

If Zimmerman truly shot Trayvon as result of a good old-fashioned scuffle.... a self-defense verdict is walking on some truly thin ice, IMO.

So you think Zimmerman just shot Trayvon because his feelings got hurt?

Was that necessary?

You're at a bar and some guy shoves you.
You're armed, and you feel threatened, so you shoot the guy dead.
How should that be legally handled?

There's always the opportunity to remove yourself from that situation UNLESS someone is sitting on top of you and pounding your head into the ground....then yes you can shoot him without repercussion because (and follow me closely on this part) YOUR LIFE WAS IN DANGER.

Zimmerman was getting the shit kicked out of him as one can tell by the broken nose and how the back of his head was fucked up.


But hey what do I know, I'm smart enough not to get in fights

You didn't get a rise out of me the first time, so if at first you don't succeed....










But bottom line: The case means little to me also. I was more shocked about the much less publicized case of the guy in Jacksonville who emptied his gun into a teenager-filled SUV at a gas station because they were playing loud music (and he wanted to play macho man in front of his girlfriend).

Although the following statement will go totally ignored by you, I've never made a big deal about Trayvon being black and Zimmerman not being black.

[El Kabong]

Was that necessary?

Maybe you hadn't seen how injured Zimmerman was, and if not then my bad, but the guy wasn't being tickled he was getting his ass thoroughly kicked as evidenced by the pictures. Now what caused the fight, how did the events play out, that MIGHT warrant a look at a manslaughter charge but if Zimmerman's story is to be believed and he was walking back to his car after getting the street sign name for the cops and was then attacked out of the blue by Trayvon then there is 0 case for murder or manslaughter it is a simple self defense case.

Although the following statement will go totally ignored by you, I've never made a big deal about Trayvon being black and Zimmerman not being black.

No, the media did and the MEDIA is what I have the issue with. Just like the Duke Lacrosse case, they're trying they're hardest to convict a guy before his case is heard in court. Just take a look at Al Sharpton's next show and tell me he's not trying to steer people into a certain frame of mind.

[Beanz]

Trayvon Martin no longer has the luxury of being able to defend himself against the acusations that Zimmermans defence team are feeding the media. You have already made your mind up Lyle so why pretend otherwise?

[El Kabong]

Trayvon Martin no longer has the luxury of being able to defend himself against the acusations that Zimmermans defence team are feeding the media. You have already made your mind up Lyle so why pretend otherwise?

If it pleases the court I would like to present Lyle's Exhibit A of Media Bias



....your thoughts?

[Beanz]

Trayvon Martin no longer has the luxury of being able to defend himself against the acusations that Zimmermans defence team are feeding the media. You have already made your mind up Lyle so why pretend otherwise?

If it pleases the court I would like to present Lyle's Exhibit A of Media Bias



....your thoughts?

My thoughts are firstly this is not a court of Law. We are not privvy to ALL the facts in the case. The idea that Media Bias is exclusively the domain of of those trying to explain the death of a young unarmed black guy by trying to invent a racial element that is not there, whilst the defendants team are really the victims in this misrepresentation of the truth is ludicrous.


I would ask your thoughts but this is not a point scoring debate.


To most people outside of the states this case is pretty mind blowing. The idea that an unarmed teenager who was not trespassing is somehow responsible for being shot dead by a guy, because, you Lyle, and many others like you, assume that he started a fight with an ARMED man and therefore because the ARMED man was possibly losing and ....wait for it (because this is for many virtually incomprehensible) AFRAID FOR HIS OWN LIFE that somehow means the charges should at most be manslaughter ?


Media bias should be the least of your worries.

[Beanflicker]

Wow this kinda turned into a shit show lol.

Hey Tito, to answer your question on page one, I understand what you're saying completely, in the logic that you don't deserve to get shot for pushing someone. I'm no lawyer so I can't tell you 100% how that would go but in Florida I think that falls under the "Stand Your Ground" act, where you're not legally bound to try to escape someone who is threatening you with physical harm. This really hinges on who started the conflict, you can't initiate a conflict with someone, and then shoot them when they retaliate.

I live in Canada so I'm surrounded by people who hate guns because our laws are very strict here. I happen to like the concept of firearm possession for self protection, especially for women and smaller guys. We seen you can take one punch from someone, fall down, hit your head and die or end up living the rest of your days like Gerald McClellan.

Sometimes people get shot doing home invasions, and people will say "well a thief doesn't deserve to die for stealing". Yeah maybe not, but if it's your house being broken into and you have kids, a wife, ect there, how do you know their intention is just to steal? It's not like you can go and ask him "hey, are you just here to steal my TV or are you going to rape and kill my family."

So in that way I think the individual should have the right to protect themselves, and when you do stupid shit like assault people or break into houses, you need to be prepared for consequences.

[Beanflicker]

We had an incident near here last week where a man returned to his home, in an area a bit off the path, and found a strange car in his drive and his front door kicked in. He took his pistol from his glovebox, went inside as was confronted by a guy with a pillowcase full of the homeowner's property. He shot the man dead. It turned out that that man had already broken into and robbed several other homes in that area.
What I couldn't believe was the response. Rather, the number of people saying that the homeowner had an 'obligation' not to enter his house- thereby provoking a confrontation- and that he should have locked himself in his vehicle and called the police. That got shouted down pretty quickly- this is Montana, after all- but I think we have let to many Californians move here.

Yeah that's a tough one. Legally I don't know, but a burglar will never get sympathy from me.

[Andre]

I thought that 911 call was really telling. He was told do not follow the suspect. Also was heard to use the term fucking coon. They are going to have a long day with those two points when trying to prove self defense 100%. The ballistics will be interesting, has direction ,angle and distance been released to view yet?

[El Kabong]

To most people outside of the states this case is pretty mind blowing. The idea that an unarmed teenager who was not trespassing is somehow responsible for being shot dead by a guy, because, you Lyle, and many others like you, assume that he started a fight with an ARMED man and therefore because the ARMED man was possibly losing and ....wait for it (because this is for many virtually incomprehensible) AFRAID FOR HIS OWN LIFE that somehow means the charges should at most be manslaughter ?


Media bias should be the least of your worries.

An unarmed teenager who may have instigated a fight instead of just walking away. If you're in a fight and you have a weapon and you're losing the fight there is a very real possibility your weapon will be used against you.


Lets take a look at other people and how they would have handled the situation shall we? I don't get into fights, I just don't...I don't know why, maybe I'm just well liked. But even if presented with a physical showdown I give my nemesis every single chance to leave unharmed and wouldn't you know it they always do...ALWAYS.....100% of the time. Some drunk Army guys tried to start shit with me and I let cooler heads prevail and in the end everyone gets along....maybe it's just because I'm white...or maybe I would just rather not pummel the life out of someone accidentally because it doesn't take much to kill someone even with just your hands....you punch someone and their head smacks the concrete too hard and all of a sudden your little street fight in a homicide....I don't like that idea, most people don't like that idea.

Now, what caused this situation to go from nothing happening to physical altercation ending in the death of a teenager?

There's your point of contention right there and I say had Trayvon left well enough alone, OR at the very least not started a fight he'd still be alive today. Ask George why he was following you, explain you were heading home and then it's not you in trouble it's Zimmerman for being overaggressive as a watchman. But you physically confront Zimmerman and start beating him up and tell him he's "Gonna die tonight" (that's what Trayvon said according to Zimmerman in the Police reports) and well something like THIS happens.

[El Kabong]

I thought that 911 call was really telling. He was told do not follow the suspect. Also was heard to use the term fucking coon. They are going to have a long day with those two points when trying to prove self defense 100%. The ballistics will be interesting, has direction ,angle and distance been released to view yet?

#1 He ended up NOT following Trayvon, he went to get the street sign to tell the Police where to meet him

#2 He didn't say "fucking coon" he said "fucking punks" if you watched my video you would have seen that was CNN drumming up the racial aspect of this case back when they referred to Zimmerman as and I quote "A White Hispanic"

[Andre]

We had an incident near here last week where a man returned to his home, in an area a bit off the path, and found a strange car in his drive and his front door kicked in. He took his pistol from his glovebox, went inside as was confronted by a guy with a pillowcase full of the homeowner's property. He shot the man dead. It turned out that that man had already broken into and robbed several other homes in that area.
What I couldn't believe was the response. Rather, the number of people saying that the homeowner had an 'obligation' not to enter his house- thereby provoking a confrontation- and that he should have locked himself in his vehicle and called the police. That got shouted down pretty quickly- this is Montana, after all- but I think we have let to many Californians move here.

Yeah that's a tough one. Legally I don't know, but a burglar will never get sympathy from me.

Yeah, pieces today were washed ashore of what appears to be a suspected town burglar. Police have no leads to go on.

[El Kabong]

"well a thief doesn't deserve to die for stealing".

That's debatable...I've had my car broken into before, and my house almost broken into (my dog prevented that) and there's nothing like the amount of anger one feels when that happens. You go to work and your home sits empty all day and these lowlife thieves can just pop in and pop out and make a nice amount of cash off of your hard work....FUCK THAT. If someone breaks into your house Shoot them, that is a line you do not cross man.

[Andre]

I thought that 911 call was really telling. He was told do not follow the suspect. Also was heard to use the term fucking coon. They are going to have a long day with those two points when trying to prove self defense 100%. The ballistics will be interesting, has direction ,angle and distance been released to view yet?

#1 He ended up NOT following Trayvon, he went to get the street sign to tell the Police where to meet him

#2 He didn't say "fucking coon" he said "fucking punks" if you watched my video you would have seen that was CNN drumming up the racial aspect of this case back when they referred to Zimmerman as and I quote "A White Hispanic"

Street sign. Im going on memory here, wasnt the shop and his car facing out on one road and yet the altercation took place away from there some 100 yard walk around the back of the shop in between an area between flats?