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Thread: The Brexit Thread

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  1. #361
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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Numbers? Really?

    1. You have linked not to evidence but to an advocacy group that argues for increased restrictions on immigration to the United Kingdom founded by Lord Green of Deddington, a former British ambassador to Saudi Arabia.

    Let that sink in while you do the toffs/Deepstate/Glaobalist/Corporate Monsters work for them

    2. The EU for all its faults is unsurprisingly given it's name a union. It is this principle of co-operation whether it is embodied in communities or between workers or countries you argue against as though workers are not really workers unless you put a label on them

    3. Again you are arguing that the slice of cake you want to eat has nothing to do with the cake it was cut from. If you vote UKIP or Brexit then you are pretending that your meaningless vote never happened in order to again play make believe and pretend the EU election you just voted in is not democratic.

    4. What i actually said was "So don't pretend that democracy is about serving only the portion of the electorate you agree with. That is hugely dishonest."

    It was your argument and not you I was calling dishonest much like the massive American voices (Bannon etc) who are begging for a no deal Brexit when they have no belief in democracy at best they want a republic but actually something more like a dictatorship. This is why Brexiteers will think nothing of calling the EU Nazis while they seek to silence any argument but extremist stances and refuse to partake in democracy

    5. This is a classic example of a nonargument and you taking yourself out of what makes no sense. We have had 3 years of seeing how less accountable Parliament is then even the EU. And again you blame migrants instead of those who refuse to change in British politics. Watch the Yannis video before you smash up stuff like a hooligan for the sake of 'borders' and 'Sovreignty' like some imaginary feudal lord of the manor.

    6. Most of this is borderline racist bullshit with no grounding in reality. It doesn't mean you are a racist but you aren't half doing their work. Lazy stereotyping. I have worked in Europe. My family often work in Europe. None of us are part of a Euro elite class. Not even just work. Science, education, Cultural exchange these pathways and networks are entrenched and valuable and you want to tear them up. What a vandal. Brother in law working in Spain right now and my own younger brother just come back from teaching in a German Uni. You just buy lies by the barrel load of dodgy blokes in Thanet.

    7. It is audited but should be overhauled. Watch the Yanis video.

    8. Again you just made that up. You even post videos of debates on here. The secrets of Nige etc meanwhile are whitewashed by you

    9. This time this is actually you being dishonest. How is singing the praises of the counties I love me ranting about my pet hates? You are inverting reality. It is a positive thing I am celebrating but you are intent on hating it. And then to add insult to injury you agin make crap up and suggest I am supporting letting in illegal immigrants or are somehow despite working in the CJS am pro crime. The most insidious thing though is your use of lanuguage. You insinuate that they are millions of unvetted criminals responsible for horrific crimes 'let in' by the EU when you know the majority of migrants are not criminals at all. Propaganda mate and again no reasonable arguments at all.

    I have never said or thought the simplistic things that you suggest or made the easy to destory strawman arguments you are inventing. It's not debate really is it?[/QUOTE]

    In a little more detail. One by one as numbers are a good method of organizing points.

    1. It doesn't matter who Lord Blah Blah is, the point is that immigration has been very high and that for many years people have been getting more and more upset by it. The UK is for British citizens and not the world, so it does matter when millions upon millions pour in and especially during a period of economic turmoil thus causing division, depressing wages, and burdening the welfare system.

    2. The EU was supposed to be a trading bloc, not a new Empire as it is rapidly turning into with completely open borders within and seemingly beyond. I disagree that it is a union of communities as Italy is very different to the UK and the UK very different to Spain. We can all get on of course, but we are different and should respect that. It is a community of economic exchange and it is appalling that the borders were opened as they were. I think there is something to be said for maintaining cultures and nation states rather than dissolving them. I think this is where you and I differ. I do not see myself as European. I am English and by extension British. I will never be European as in being akin to an Italian or a French person. I have nothing against Italy, but I am not an Italian and an Italian is not English. This strange unifying badge of European is a fake and imposed one. By ideologues.

    3. These elections should not even be taking place and you know it. Labour and Tory have both held the country. Short of an uprising, protest voting is the only alternative. The elite are not going to obey their public thus they need to fall and Jeremy Corbyn campaigned to stay and must fall too. May is a walking corpse at this stage ready for a retirement home.

    4. I have nothing to do with Bannon. I simply believe in an independent nation state and always have. A nation state that the people, an active populace, holds to account regularly.

    5. Not sure I mentioned smashing anything up there, but this is why the people must continue to avoid the Labour/Tory false option. Sure, Corbyn is alright, but his party are basically Tories in Red. Both parties have to disappear at this stage. It is time for something entirely new. However, it must not cave like the Greeks and hold strong and forge good ties with the world. A nation has the right to sovereignty. It should not be a mafia. The elite are scared and cowardly and do not want to leave. How can a remainer be negotiating to leave? Of course it makes no sense. Off with all of them.

    6. Nope, I speak facts. Check out the welfare conditions and minimum wages in different European countries. Economically some are better than others. There is no denying that some countries are a better option than others. If Romania was so great, then why are Brits not flooding there in their millions. You know the answer and it is not in racist old me.

    7. I would love to see the figures.

    8. You know that is not made up. Hardly transparent, right?
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-10456206.html

    9. No, I say you hate on people who are not fascists or far right by calling them just that. I know as you do it to me too and I am hardly far right and you know that.

  2. #362
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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Ban numbered responses.

    Fuck me it is not the class room.

    My immediate neighbour is Italian as is his wife. I myself have worked in Milan for 6 months once.

    It is pretty relevant when you take the Thatcherite view that there is no such thing as community.

    It sums up your entire ethos.

    Nationhood above everything else and to the detriment of both individuals and communities.


    You keep quoting statistics from clearly biased and invested group led by agenda driven aristocrats, Corporate giants, bent businessmen and corrupt politicians and then demanding that I deny and ignore any personal experience, or the experiences of anyone I may know whether they be relatives, friends or work colleagues. It is made even more ridiculous by the fact that you do not live and work in either the UK or Europe but you are so eager for your narrative to be presented as the truth about a situation you have no experience of and nothing to gain or lose from. A bit like the Troy, UKIP and Brexit part candidates who live in France, Spain etc and are demanding a no deal Brexit.

    Crazy Stuff.
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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    Ban numbered responses.

    Fuck me it is not the class room.

    My immediate neighbour is Italian as is his wife. I myself have worked in Milan for 6 months once.

    It is pretty relevant when you take the Thatcherite view that there is no such thing as community.

    It sums up your entire ethos.

    Nationhood above everything else and to the detriment of both individuals and communities.


    You keep quoting statistics from clearly biased and invested group led by agenda driven aristocrats, Corporate giants, bent businessmen and corrupt politicians and then demanding that I deny and ignore any personal experience, or the experiences of anyone I may know whether they be relatives, friends or work colleagues. It is made even more ridiculous by the fact that you do not live and work in either the UK or Europe but you are so eager for your narrative to be presented as the truth about a situation you have no experience of and nothing to gain or lose from. A bit like the Troy, UKIP and Brexit part candidates who live in France, Spain etc and are demanding a no deal Brexit.

    Crazy Stuff.
    I don't give a damn. I lived in the same house as an Italian for several years. Nice enough chap, but he was not English and I am not Italian.

    You deny statistics just as you deny any evidence based around Tommy Robinson. You cannot reason with someone that denies data.

    I have lived in many more parts of the UK than you have and know plenty of people from many different countries. You live in a provincial mostly white middle class town with very little migration and no grooming. Go and live in London for a few years or go and live in Manchester for a few years and get back to me. Otherwise I really do think you are in a bit of a bubble yourself.

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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    In fact I spent nearly as much time in the North East of England as Robinson just last year. When was the last time you walked around Longsight?

  5. #365
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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    Ban numbered responses.

    Fuck me it is not the class room.

    My immediate neighbour is Italian as is his wife. I myself have worked in Milan for 6 months once.

    It is pretty relevant when you take the Thatcherite view that there is no such thing as community.

    It sums up your entire ethos.

    Nationhood above everything else and to the detriment of both individuals and communities.


    You keep quoting statistics from clearly biased and invested group led by agenda driven aristocrats, Corporate giants, bent businessmen and corrupt politicians and then demanding that I deny and ignore any personal experience, or the experiences of anyone I may know whether they be relatives, friends or work colleagues. It is made even more ridiculous by the fact that you do not live and work in either the UK or Europe but you are so eager for your narrative to be presented as the truth about a situation you have no experience of and nothing to gain or lose from. A bit like the Troy, UKIP and Brexit part candidates who live in France, Spain etc and are demanding a no deal Brexit.

    Crazy Stuff.
    I don't give a damn. I lived in the same house as an Italian for several years. Nice enough chap, but he was not English and I am not Italian.

    You deny statistics just as you deny any evidence based around Tommy Robinson. You cannot reason with someone that denies data.

    I have lived in many more parts of the UK than you have and know plenty of people from many different countries. You live in a provincial mostly white middle class town with very little migration and no grooming. Go and live in London for a few years or go and live in Manchester for a few years and get back to me. Otherwise I really do think you are in a bit of a bubble yourself.
    I live in a poor city. It most certainly is not middle class and neither am I. There are council houses on the opposite side of my street and i was born and brought up on a council estate. I have lived in caravans and even a tent for a while. I have lived and worked all over the UK including London. You assume to much. The point is you do not live here and have not for many years. I voted in the referendum and voted in the EU elections yesterday. You did neither and yet like many people who are not living here you seek to not only dominate the conversation but to dismiss anyone with a different view than your fantasy.

    There are many, many immigrants in my city. From all over the world. We are a naval port form which people like Scott, Darwin, Cook atc left to explore the world. You like most Northerners think the South West is like The South East and it is not. There is huge poverty here and in both counties.

    I can also assure you i have met, talked, sat down, volunteered and lived with many more of the people you demonize than you can imagine. I don't think that makes my opinion more valid than yours but it sure as hell is more informed.
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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    It is 96% white and is hardly suffering like some of the cities of the North. I lived for years in Manchester and freelanced around places like Salford. That is or certainly was poverty stricken and the social problems immense.

    I have a friend here from where you are and a few of us from the North tease him about it as we have seen and heard things he couldn't dream about. Armes robberies are no laughing matter. Car radios stolen. People stabbed. The works.

    I have lived in 8 cities in the UK and met people from all parts of the country and indeed the world such are the perks of life on the road.

  7. #367
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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    It is 96% white and is hardly suffering like some of the cities of the North. I lived for years in Manchester and freelanced around places like Salford. That is or certainly was poverty stricken and the social problems immense.

    I have a friend here from where you are and a few of us from the North tease him about it as we have seen and heard things he couldn't dream about. Armes robberies are no laughing matter. Car radios stolen. People stabbed. The works.

    I have lived in 8 cities in the UK and met people from all parts of the country and indeed the world such are the perks of life on the road.
    'Life on the road' ?

    You will believe what you like mate. I have had guns pulled in my face, my Mrs stabbed multiple times etc it is not something I broadcast, but you are deluded if you think you have some kind of monopoly of experience when it comes to the harsher realities of life.
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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    I really do not wish to be rude as I am sure there is deprivation as there is anywhere, but the poorest and most suffering towns are mostly in the North East and West. They say it is 'grim up North' as it really is. Statistically so and in my memory bank too. I quite like Manchester actually, but no doubt some of its surrounding environs are amongst the roughest in the country. Going home at 10pm through Longsight is never a laugh, but you get on with it. Others here are from rough places. Think Batman is and maybe Al will know a few rough and ready towns. Mark TKO will know Leeds is rough.

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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Nope, not a competition, is it? Needless to say I don't experience any danger nowadays. I will admit your place is rougher than mine. How's that for fair? I was lucky to avoid armed robbery a couple of times. Been threatened on the job by the mentally ill too. One of my recommendation letters said I was good at defusing dangerous situations. Obviously written before I turned to the Internet. 😜

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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Nope, not a competition, is it? Needless to say I don't experience any danger nowadays. I will admit your place is rougher than mine. How's that for fair? I was lucky to avoid armed robbery a couple of times. Been threatened on the job by the mentally ill too. One of my recommendation letters said I was good at defusing dangerous situations. Obviously written before I turned to the Internet. ������
    It is the car radios being stolen mate. I don't know how you coped FFS You sound like Froch having his bike nicked or May running thru a field

    It's just another useful way for you to make your own voice the loudest and derail a thread about Brexit and make it about yourself. You sound like a candidate for next tory PM.
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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Stop being such a twit. I didn't even have a car then, I took the bus. An adventure in and of itself. I am just saying your place has poverty, but is homogeneous and nothing like the Northern towns. The Chinese are your biggest ethnic group for goodness sake. Go and live in Salford for a few years and get back to me.

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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    They're going to have to change the date for when we're not going to leave the EU again, as by the time the self seriving Tories have finishing foisting a new PM on us, a PM that will only have been chosen by a few people who have paid money to be Tory party members, that PM will not have enough time to sort things out before October 31st.
    Last edited by Syntax Error; 05-25-2019 at 03:40 AM.
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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Stop being such a twit. I didn't even have a car then, I took the bus. An adventure in and of itself. I am just saying your place has poverty, but is homogeneous and nothing like the Northern towns. The Chinese are your biggest ethnic group for goodness sake. Go and live in Salford for a few years and get back to me.
    A perfect example. You look something up on the internet, think it makes you an expert and then use it to dismiss me rather than any points or arguments I may have made, even though it is irrelevant. You do not where have I lived or that much about me but again instead of dealing with the thread you use it to get personal and paint me as some kind of unreliable witness or madman and claim the moral high ground with your ' I have had it rougher than anyone could imagine' bollocks.

    I don't know if it is a northern thing but to be honest a lot of the country are sick of it. This poor me bollocks. Large parts of London and the center, Wales , and the South West have just as much poverty but don't bang on about it like they are fucking Oliver Twist ffs. The investment in your region is huge compared to down here. We literally get cut off once a year from the rest of the country when the rain washes the traintrack away and there you lot are with the BBC and lodas of big corporations relocating up North and still you bleat on like you imagine anywhere south of London is some kind of paradise. Cluless.


    Brexit. The EU Elections. Not Gandalf knows more about the UK and being working class than anyone else.

    Your entire experience of muslims seems to be one kid in your secondary school and your experience with refugees seems to be what the internet has told you.

    I am not asking you to agree with me but I do not need to pretend to be an expert on South Korea or teaching English to debate you and neither do I need to make stuff up about your life to make you seem to be lacking in credibility. That is the exact kind of thing the tabloid and mainstream media you are supposed to be against do. Dirty low tactics and fake news. When i remark on how it seems to be all about the money for you it is because you confirm yourself how you don't really want anything to do with the left all the time.

    Corbyn offers you change but you don't want the commitment so you paint his party as triators. They have promised to implement Brexit but you don't care because you just want to go on a self righteous rant. You are backing the very people who used fake news and the media for years to get us to where we are. We will end up with another unelected Prime Minster even more heartless and ruthless than this one and rather than point out how much damage the tories have done, you blame immigrants and the EU. Their are corrupt bastards behind this that knew the tories would buy their idea of blaming an EU about to punish tax cheats and point out human rights abuses in the UK, and then call a referendum to implement their plan under the guise of 'The Will of the people' , and not only did you buy into it hook , line and sinker. you helped the tories and their self serving anti poor people policies, infact with you history of being a good little servant of the corporate fake alt news ,you have helped smooth the path for them.

    You will not acknowledge a balanced view on anything.

    You didn't have a car and had to take the bus? boo hoo. Who the fucking hell do you think you are 'The Queen'?
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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    I have acknowledged that poverty exists in your town as it does everywhere to varying degrees. You get triggered incredibly easily. If you don't then why a thousand word essay on something like this? Will leave it at that. Your own words paint your own picture.

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    Default Re: The Brexit Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    I have had guns pulled in my face, my Mrs stabbed multiple times etc it is not something I broadcast, but you are deluded if you think you have some kind of monopoly of experience when it comes to the harsher realities of life.
    Blimey, come on Beanz, stop teasing us, why was you threatened with a shooter and your missus chived up?
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