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Thread: "P4P no.1!" Chocolatito-vs-Thai Bang Bang Merchant - (Golovkin-Jacobs undercard)

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    Default "P4P no.1!" Chocolatito-vs-Thai Bang Bang Merchant - (Golovkin-Jacobs undercard)

    Not seen anyone mention Chocolatito-Srisaket in the Golovkin-Jacobs thread so i'm giving the little basher-genius his own thread.

    This is clearly a mismatch, right? The bookies give the typical padded record Thai no chance - he is generally 9/1 just to win. However....

    Having a closer look, on a formline through Cuadras those odds are way to big. Cuadras gave Chocolatito a real tough fight last time. Although a rightful winner, the "P4P no.1" looked knackered and battered at the end - understandably as not only is Cuadras a top fighter but also looked naturally bigger and stronger. Or to put it another way, Chocolatito wasn't as effective stepping up to superfly - his 4th weightclass.

    Now Srisaket doesn't have the boxing movement/awkwardness of Cuadras, in fact he's an open target for Choco to unleash his awesome combos, but he too is the natural superfly, is a super aggressive lefty - defence is his offense - and can crack ribs and rattle bonces. He was down on the cards but visibly hurt Cuadras several times and wasn't getting totally outclassed when the fight was stopped - due to an axe wound on the Mexican's bonce.

    It looks like Srisaket's sparko streak - 38 of his last 39 wins have been by stoppage - is just a typical Thai record, but he's won all his title fights by chinnage too, so over-inflated record or not, there's substance to it. The TD loss to Cuadras is his only blip in the past seven years.

    Cuadras said this week - the Thai is much stronger and harder hitting than Choco, it'll be a close fight.

    Chocolatito is utterly brilliant and could easily make the Thai look like a mug. However, considering the weightclass, his grueling last fight and the pressure of now being a main attraction (all the extra media shit and stuff), at 9-1 I think it's worth taking a chance this is Barrera-Pac 1.

    Incidently Srisaket Sor Rungvisai (The Thai) is called Wisaksil Wangek on my betting slip. Boxing.
    Last edited by Fenster; 03-19-2017 at 11:20 AM.
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    Default Re: "P4P no.1!" Chocolatito-vs-Thai Bang Bang Merchant - (Golovkin-Jacobs undercard)

    I had no idea about this fight and haven't seen the Thai fellow at all, but stoked to hear about it as I'll be watching. Seems like GGG and Gonzales seem to get on the same bill fairly often, can't go wrong there. Cuadras is also fighting in what should be just before this one, so a nice card is almost a guarantee.

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    Default Re: "P4P no.1!" Chocolatito-vs-Thai Bang Bang Merchant - (Golovkin-Jacobs undercard)

    Glad he's on the card and huge chance to shine. For all of the talk of 'greats' Chocolatito has seemed a bit sluggish and not hard to catch over last couple. Wangek great numbers but before and after Cuadras he's been knocking over stunt men largely. How'd you like to make your pro debut against a guy 40-4

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    Default Re: "P4P no.1!" Chocolatito-vs-Thai Bang Bang Merchant - (Golovkin-Jacobs undercard)

    I think Chocolatito will only get better at the weight. Cuadras has the wrong idea about him. He'll have more for Cuadras in the return.

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    Default Re: "P4P no.1!" Chocolatito-vs-Thai Bang Bang Merchant - (Golovkin-Jacobs undercard)

    Thailand is going through a revival at the lower weight classes in international boxing. This is good since in Thailand international boxing plays 2nd to Muay Thai, which is OK since Muay Thai is part of their national identity and a beautiful art. But perhaps now that the country has 2 active high level champions (Knockout CP Freshmart being the other) the sport will regain some of its popularity and we can see a bit more of their Muay Thai fighters cross over to put up some good fights at the level weights. Due to their Muay Thai background most Thai international boxers are front foot heavy which makes them fan friendly fighters.

    On another note sure we can argue the decision. But in my opinion Gonzalez has become too complacent. He needed to lose in order to advance to the next chapter of his career. Now where does this next chapter take him? That's up to him. But I have been noticing psychological and physical regression with him and this is usually a sign of lack of motivation. A competitive loss and a bit of meditation can be the right medicine for this problem.
    Last edited by wanderingfighter; 03-19-2017 at 07:57 PM.

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    Default Re: "P4P no.1!" Chocolatito-vs-Thai Bang Bang Merchant - (Golovkin-Jacobs undercard)

    Holy fuck! Oh yes, this thread is getting shamelessy bumped, and then bumped again, and again and again.
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    Default Re: "P4P no.1!" Chocolatito-vs-Thai Bang Bang Merchant - (Golovkin-Jacobs undercard)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Not seen anyone mention Chocolatito-Srisaket in the Golovkin-Jacobs thread so i'm giving the little basher-genius his own thread.

    This is clearly a mismatch, right? The bookies give the typical padded record Thai no chance - he is generally 9/1 just to win. However....

    Having a closer look, on a formline through Cuadras those odds are way to big. Cuadras gave Chocolatito a real tough fight last time. Although a rightful winner, the "P4P no.1" looked knackered and battered at the end - understandably as not only is Cuadras a top fighter but also looked naturally bigger and stronger. Or to put it another way, Chocolatito wasn't as effective stepping up to superfly - his 4th weightclass.

    Now Srisaket doesn't have the boxing movement/awkwardness of Cuadras, in fact he's an open target for Choco to unleash his awesome combos, but he too is the natural superfly, is a super aggressive lefty - defence is his offense - and can crack ribs and rattle bonces. He was down on the cards but visibly hurt Cuadras several times and wasn't getting totally outclassed when the fight was stopped - due to an axe wound on the Mexican's bonce.

    It looks like Srisaket's sparko streak - 38 of his last 39 wins have been by stoppage - is just a typical Thai record, but he's won all his title fights by chinnage too, so over-inflated record or not, there's substance to it. The TD loss to Cuadras is his only blip in the past seven years.

    Cuadras said this week - the Thai is much stronger and harder hitting than Choco, it'll be a close fight.

    Chocolatito is utterly brilliant and could easily make the Thai look like a mug. However, considering the weightclass, his grueling last fight and the pressure of now being a main attraction (all the extra media shit and stuff), at 9-1 I think it's worth taking a chance this is Barrera-Pac 1.

    Incidently Srisaket Sor Rungvisai (The Thai) is called Wisaksil Wangek on my betting slip. Boxing.
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    Really need to find this and watch when I have the time. Used to have and record the US shows when we had Sky and Boxnation HD but Virgin only has Boxnation SD and it is apparently terrible and often virtually unwatchable. Resent paying for that kind of service.

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    Default Re: "P4P no.1!" Chocolatito-vs-Thai Bang Bang Merchant - (Golovkin-Jacobs undercard)

    Chocolatito is just not big enough at this weight.

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    Default Re: "P4P no.1!" Chocolatito-vs-Thai Bang Bang Merchant - (Golovkin-Jacobs undercard)

    No i'm far from becoming the new ross - I'm not blissfully unaware that i'm thick as shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr140 View Post
    All the division Gonzalez has been in does not even have 800 active fighters in it all between 500-700 fighters.
    There's over 2000 fighters between strawweight and superfly (the divisions he's fought in). But even if a division has only 500 active fighters at least they have to train and make weight.

    There's 1200 heavyweights. What percentage are genuinely skilled boxers/athletes? Loads of them are borderline obese, they have skill but the luxury of not having to train. So I would assume the overall quality of the smaller weights trumps the lack of quantity argument.

    It makes sense that welterweight historically provides the best quality and quantity as it's the closest to the average size of all men from all over the world.
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    Default Re: "P4P no.1!" Chocolatito-vs-Thai Bang Bang Merchant - (Golovkin-Jacobs undercard)

    welterweight probly isn't the average size of men anymore

    more like super middle or light heavy wouldn't you say?
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    Default Re: "P4P no.1!" Chocolatito-vs-Thai Bang Bang Merchant - (Golovkin-Jacobs undercard)

    Super middle or light heavy is more like the average weight men in western countries walk around at. If you look at people from all over the place in fighting shape, I think Fenster is definitely right here. The majority of people have never been fit enough to do 12 rounds, and if they were would be much lighter. A light heavyweight is generally a big man, if they weren't worried about competing in an endurance sport or making the weight they would be well heavier than most.

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    Default Re: "P4P no.1!" Chocolatito-vs-Thai Bang Bang Merchant - (Golovkin-Jacobs undercard)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    No i'm far from becoming the new ross - I'm not blissfully unaware that i'm thick as shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr140 View Post
    All the division Gonzalez has been in does not even have 800 active fighters in it all between 500-700 fighters.
    There's over 2000 fighters between strawweight and superfly (the divisions he's fought in). But even if a division has only 500 active fighters at least they have to train and make weight.

    There's 1200 heavyweights. What percentage are genuinely skilled boxers/athletes? Loads of them are borderline obese, they have skill but the luxury of not having to train. So I would assume the overall quality of the smaller weights trumps the lack of quantity argument.

    It makes sense that welterweight historically provides the best quality and quantity as it's the closest to the average size of all men from all over the world.
    I disagree with you on the skill level just because there faster does not make them more skilled. Not to mention they do not have to worry about being ended in blink of a eye. I was not impressed by a guy going toe to toe with nobody that in his last few fights was going against fighters that where in there debut. If he is going life and death with unknown guy who was fight debut fighters that division makes heavyweight look stacked. I disagree with skill level not many men are that size and there no real money in the division to make people want to cut. Easy to try to say hw is unskilled but it harder to box someone who can end you in punch makes the fight look different.

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    Default Re: "P4P no.1!" Chocolatito-vs-Thai Bang Bang Merchant - (Golovkin-Jacobs undercard)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr140 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    No i'm far from becoming the new ross - I'm not blissfully unaware that i'm thick as shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr140 View Post
    All the division Gonzalez has been in does not even have 800 active fighters in it all between 500-700 fighters.
    There's over 2000 fighters between strawweight and superfly (the divisions he's fought in). But even if a division has only 500 active fighters at least they have to train and make weight.

    There's 1200 heavyweights. What percentage are genuinely skilled boxers/athletes? Loads of them are borderline obese, they have skill but the luxury of not having to train. So I would assume the overall quality of the smaller weights trumps the lack of quantity argument.

    It makes sense that welterweight historically provides the best quality and quantity as it's the closest to the average size of all men from all over the world.
    I disagree with you on the skill level just because there faster does not make them more skilled. Not to mention they do not have to worry about being ended in blink of a eye. I was not impressed by a guy going toe to toe with nobody that in his last few fights was going against fighters that where in there debut. If he is going life and death with unknown guy who was fight debut fighters that division makes heavyweight look stacked. I disagree with skill level not many men are that size and there no real money in the division to make people want to cut. Easy to try to say hw is unskilled but it harder to box someone who can end you in punch makes the fight look different.
    Many Thai fighters fight a bunch of times a year to keep active, sometimes against guys making their debut. Calling Wangek a nobody is pretty ignorant and disrespectful to his ability. He was starting to bust up Cuadras before the fight was cut short due to a cut.

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    Default Re: "P4P no.1!" Chocolatito-vs-Thai Bang Bang Merchant - (Golovkin-Jacobs undercard)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr140 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    No i'm far from becoming the new ross - I'm not blissfully unaware that i'm thick as shit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr140 View Post
    All the division Gonzalez has been in does not even have 800 active fighters in it all between 500-700 fighters.
    There's over 2000 fighters between strawweight and superfly (the divisions he's fought in). But even if a division has only 500 active fighters at least they have to train and make weight.

    There's 1200 heavyweights. What percentage are genuinely skilled boxers/athletes? Loads of them are borderline obese, they have skill but the luxury of not having to train. So I would assume the overall quality of the smaller weights trumps the lack of quantity argument.

    It makes sense that welterweight historically provides the best quality and quantity as it's the closest to the average size of all men from all over the world.
    I disagree with you on the skill level just because there faster does not make them more skilled. Not to mention they do not have to worry about being ended in blink of a eye. I was not impressed by a guy going toe to toe with nobody that in his last few fights was going against fighters that where in there debut. If he is going life and death with unknown guy who was fight debut fighters that division makes heavyweight look stacked. I disagree with skill level not many men are that size and there no real money in the division to make people want to cut. Easy to try to say hw is unskilled but it harder to box someone who can end you in punch makes the fight look different.
    I never said heavyweights lacked skill. Obviously a big man will never have the speed, stamina or punch output of a small man but makes up for it with power, longevity, wear and tear. Actual skills, boxing brain, heart, balls, dedication etc is the exact same whether you're 6'6, 240 or 5'3 115.

    I was merely rebutting the notion that there's a lack of strength in depth at lighter weights.

    Between the entire USA and Europe there are 50 registered flyweights. There are 110 in Japan alone, 141 in Mexico. Obviously the strength in depth is far, far greater depending on the region.

    Just because you don't know who the fighters are, they don't get paid 7-figure purses, fight more regular and come from a different culture (non-title bouts in between championship fights were common in the old days of western boxing) doesn't mean they lack quality. Far from it, it's the opposite.
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