Ward/Kovalev 2...who wins?

[Primo Carnera]

look at some of his other wins too, ones that look decent on paper

Allan Green on points, all the trouble in the world v sakio bika, less than convincing win against AA, even 9 rounds with paul smith, Miranda on points

all these fighters have been beaten much more convincingly by other fighters

Ok. If he's not , who is. It's ok saying "who has he beat?" , but he's been no.1 in his division, stepped up and no.1 in the next division, and over a long period of time.
When he was inactive, I was his biggest critic, but now he's active you have to give credit where it's due.
Tell me another fighter who has beaten somebody else in the top 5 p4p in his last 2 fights? Not even Floyd did that.
So , again, if he isn't, fine, but who is?

[erics44]

look at some of his other wins too, ones that look decent on paper

Allan Green on points, all the trouble in the world v sakio bika, less than convincing win against AA, even 9 rounds with paul smith, Miranda on points

all these fighters have been beaten much more convincingly by other fighters

Ok. If he's not , who is. It's ok saying "who has he beat?" , but he's been no.1 in his division, stepped up and no.1 in the next division, and over a long period of time.
When he was inactive, I was his biggest critic, but now he's active you have to give credit where it's due.
Tell me another fighter who has beaten somebody else in the top 5 p4p in his last 2 fights? Not even Floyd did that.
So , again, if he isn't, fine, but who is?

well it might be opinion that ward would beat anyone at any weight but I personally think to have a lb4lb it has to be based on stats and there are a few fighters with better recent records

canelo, golovkin, loma, pac, and probably a few more have better recent records than ward, more names

and you have to consider circumstance, for one all the fighters above are fighting away from home

ward beating kov in America with 3 American judges and an American ref was an impressive result no doubt, but was it even as impressive as Kov getting the rough end of a decision against ward in America with an American ref and 3 American judges?

[Primo Carnera]

look at some of his other wins too, ones that look decent on paper

Allan Green on points, all the trouble in the world v sakio bika, less than convincing win against AA, even 9 rounds with paul smith, Miranda on points

all these fighters have been beaten much more convincingly by other fighters

Ok. If he's not , who is. It's ok saying "who has he beat?" , but he's been no.1 in his division, stepped up and no.1 in the next division, and over a long period of time.
When he was inactive, I was his biggest critic, but now he's active you have to give credit where it's due.
Tell me another fighter who has beaten somebody else in the top 5 p4p in his last 2 fights? Not even Floyd did that.
So , again, if he isn't, fine, but who is?

well it might be opinion that ward would beat anyone at any weight but I personally think to have a lb4lb it has to be based on stats and there are a few fighters with better recent records

canelo, golovkin, loma, pac, and probably a few more have better recent records than ward, more names

and you have to consider circumstance, for one all the fighters above are fighting away from home

ward beating kov in America with 3 American judges and an American ref was an impressive result no doubt, but was it even as impressive as Kov getting the rough end of a decision against ward in America with an American ref and 3 American judges?

Some valid points above, but going on your way of judging it , none of those names above have better names on their recent record than Ward does, not even Pac.
Through no fault of their own, none of them have beaten any p4p rated guys, apart from debatably people 2 weights below them.
Loma is undisputably a great fighter and maybe depending how you're judging it is no.1, but going on who they've beat, you can't say that. After all, he's had single digit pro fights in total.
Canelo may not have "home advantage " but he's Constantly had everything else in his favour with his catch weights etc.
GGG is constantly criticised for not fighting anyone.
So like I say nobody has recently beaten anyone of the p4p status of Kov.

[erics44]

I see what you are saying, kov could well be the best result out of all results recently

but is beating kov twice in the last 6 years enough to make ward lb4lb, particularly when both fights were in America with 3 American judges and an American ref?

I don't think so

[Primo Carnera]

I see what you are saying, kov could well be the best result out of all results recently

but is beating kov twice in the last 6 years enough to make ward lb4lb, particularly when both fights were in America with 3 American judges and an American ref?

I don't think so

fair enough , but we've gone from recent to "the last 6 Years". and like I said , who is your no.1 ?
personally I think p4p is a meaningless load of horseshit that people can rate depending on what they give priority to. there are way too many different parameters to be able to say for definite. so it will always be debated.

[Master]

[Batman]

I see what you are saying, kov could well be the best result out of all results recently

but is beating kov twice in the last 6 years enough to make ward lb4lb, particularly when both fights were in America with 3 American judges and an American ref?

I don't think so

fair enough , but we've gone from recent to "the last 6 Years". and like I said , who is your no.1 ?
personally I think p4p is a meaningless load of horseshit that people can rate depending on what they give priority to. there are way too many different parameters to be able to say for definite. so it will always be debated.

P4P rankings aka my top 10 favourite boxers at the moment.

[Ron Swanson]

Early numbers suggest Kovalevs whole side will walk with about 1.2 million. After promotional expenses, paying Kathy, paying manager, paying trainers, paying the tax man Kovalev will probably have less than 100k. Absolutely disgusting what they did to him.

[Hulk]

Early numbers suggest Kovalevs whole side will walk with about 1.2 million. After promotional expenses, paying Kathy, paying manager, paying trainers, paying the tax man Kovalev will probably have less than 100k. Absolutely disgusting what they did to him.

Think there's anyway he felt jobbed and pulled a Nicholas Walters move when the low blows and fight got tough?

[Master]

Early numbers suggest Kovalevs whole side will walk with about 1.2 million. After promotional expenses, paying Kathy, paying manager, paying trainers, paying the tax man Kovalev will probably have less than 100k. Absolutely disgusting what they did to him.

Think there's anyway he felt jobbed and pulled a Nicholas Walters move when the low blows and fight got tough?

Tim Witherspoon alleges he did the same thing against Bone Crusher Smith when he fought him a second time.

[erics44]

I see what you are saying, kov could well be the best result out of all results recently

but is beating kov twice in the last 6 years enough to make ward lb4lb, particularly when both fights were in America with 3 American judges and an American ref?

I don't think so

fair enough , but we've gone from recent to "the last 6 Years". and like I said , who is your no.1 ?
personally I think p4p is a meaningless load of horseshit that people can rate depending on what they give priority to. there are way too many different parameters to be able to say for definite. so it will always be debated.

man, I am absolutely in agreement the lb4lb stuff is bollox

mainly because you can have one fella seen as the best boxer in the world when in reality hes not even close

the best boxers in the world are the bigger boxers, no other sport has a handicap dependent on the physicalities of the participants

in other sports, if youre not big enough youre not good enough

[TitoFan]

I see what you are saying, kov could well be the best result out of all results recently

but is beating kov twice in the last 6 years enough to make ward lb4lb, particularly when both fights were in America with 3 American judges and an American ref?

I don't think so

fair enough , but we've gone from recent to "the last 6 Years". and like I said , who is your no.1 ?
personally I think p4p is a meaningless load of horseshit that people can rate depending on what they give priority to. there are way too many different parameters to be able to say for definite. so it will always be debated.

man, I am absolutely in agreement the lb4lb stuff is bollox

mainly because you can have one fella seen as the best boxer in the world when in reality hes not even close

the best boxers in the world are the bigger boxers, no other sport has a handicap dependent on the physicalities of the participants

in other sports, if youre not big enough youre not good enough

Wow.

[erics44]

I see what you are saying, kov could well be the best result out of all results recently

but is beating kov twice in the last 6 years enough to make ward lb4lb, particularly when both fights were in America with 3 American judges and an American ref?

I don't think so

fair enough , but we've gone from recent to "the last 6 Years". and like I said , who is your no.1 ?
personally I think p4p is a meaningless load of horseshit that people can rate depending on what they give priority to. there are way too many different parameters to be able to say for definite. so it will always be debated.

man, I am absolutely in agreement the lb4lb stuff is bollox

mainly because you can have one fella seen as the best boxer in the world when in reality hes not even close

the best boxers in the world are the bigger boxers, no other sport has a handicap dependent on the physicalities of the participants

in other sports, if youre not big enough youre not good enough

Wow.

not agree?

would tito have beaten lennox lewis?

[TitoFan]

I see what you are saying, kov could well be the best result out of all results recently

but is beating kov twice in the last 6 years enough to make ward lb4lb, particularly when both fights were in America with 3 American judges and an American ref?

I don't think so

fair enough , but we've gone from recent to "the last 6 Years". and like I said , who is your no.1 ?
personally I think p4p is a meaningless load of horseshit that people can rate depending on what they give priority to. there are way too many different parameters to be able to say for definite. so it will always be debated.

man, I am absolutely in agreement the lb4lb stuff is bollox

mainly because you can have one fella seen as the best boxer in the world when in reality hes not even close

the best boxers in the world are the bigger boxers, no other sport has a handicap dependent on the physicalities of the participants

in other sports, if youre not big enough youre not good enough

Wow.

not agree?

would tito have beaten lennox lewis?

No. Just like Ricky Hatton wouldn't have beaten John Ruiz.



But ok.... "the best boxers in the world are the bigger boxers."

With your ironclad argument, you've nailed the case shut.

[erics44]

I see what you are saying, kov could well be the best result out of all results recently

but is beating kov twice in the last 6 years enough to make ward lb4lb, particularly when both fights were in America with 3 American judges and an American ref?

I don't think so

fair enough , but we've gone from recent to "the last 6 Years". and like I said , who is your no.1 ?
personally I think p4p is a meaningless load of horseshit that people can rate depending on what they give priority to. there are way too many different parameters to be able to say for definite. so it will always be debated.

man, I am absolutely in agreement the lb4lb stuff is bollox

mainly because you can have one fella seen as the best boxer in the world when in reality hes not even close

the best boxers in the world are the bigger boxers, no other sport has a handicap dependent on the physicalities of the participants

in other sports, if youre not big enough youre not good enough

Wow.

not agree?

would tito have beaten lennox lewis?

No. Just like Ricky Hatton wouldn't have beaten John Ruiz.



But ok.... "the best boxers in the world are the bigger boxers."

With your ironclad argument, you've nailed the case shut.

I don't see anything coming back

tito wouldn't be in the top 100 heavies yet he was elite at his weight