Slugger vs. Swarmer.

[Master]

The Judah win was good at the time but Judah went on to be a whipping boy for the big names. Tszyu’s win over Judah is a bit like Calzaghe’s win over Lacy in the sense that it diminished over time. Tszyu did unify a weak division but he only had 34 fights in a 13 year career. I don’t think Mayweather breaks sweat beating Tszyu to be honest. Tszyu vs Gatti would’ve been interesting because Gatti could punch and Tszyu wasn’t hard to find so it would’ve made for exciting action while it lasted. Tszyu did nothing in his career to suggest he could’ve been competitive with Floyd and the difference in speed (and reflexes) would’ve been too much.

Tszyu timing was the best I have ever seen. If he can catch Zab, he could catch Floyd and if he can hit him he can knock him out like Shane nearly did.

Are you saying Zab is as good defensively as Mayweather? Surely not Let’s not forget Judah got beat on his own backyard by Baldomir! Cotto caught Judah but couldn’t catch Floyd. It was a reaching right he caught Judah with when Zab was backing straight up with his head high and hands low. Tszyu isn’t Mosley.

Kostya beat a prime Judah who was a master boxer at the time. After that Zab was never the same again.

You don’t honestly believe that? You bum the strangest fighters. Who had Judah beaten going into the Tszyu fight?

It was a unification fight and Zab was favourite but got blitzed. Kostya is a great boxer with amateur and professional pedigree. What is not to like.

Your taste is weird.

[GaMo]

The Judah win was good at the time but Judah went on to be a whipping boy for the big names. Tszyu’s win over Judah is a bit like Calzaghe’s win over Lacy in the sense that it diminished over time. Tszyu did unify a weak division but he only had 34 fights in a 13 year career. I don’t think Mayweather breaks sweat beating Tszyu to be honest. Tszyu vs Gatti would’ve been interesting because Gatti could punch and Tszyu wasn’t hard to find so it would’ve made for exciting action while it lasted. Tszyu did nothing in his career to suggest he could’ve been competitive with Floyd and the difference in speed (and reflexes) would’ve been too much.

Tszyu timing was the best I have ever seen. If he can catch Zab, he could catch Floyd and if he can hit him he can knock him out like Shane nearly did.

Are you saying Zab is as good defensively as Mayweather? Surely not Let’s not forget Judah got beat on his own backyard by Baldomir! Cotto caught Judah but couldn’t catch Floyd. It was a reaching right he caught Judah with when Zab was backing straight up with his head high and hands low. Tszyu isn’t Mosley.

Kostya beat a prime Judah who was a master boxer at the time. After that Zab was never the same again.

You don’t honestly believe that? You bum the strangest fighters. Who had Judah beaten going into the Tszyu fight?

It was a unification fight and Zab was favourite but got blitzed. Kostya is a great boxer with amateur and professional pedigree. What is not to like.

Your taste is weird.

I was talking about your sudden love for Judah. You say you like active fighters yet Tszyu only fought 34 times in 13 years!

[El Kabong]

The absolute KEY in a slugger vs swarmer matchup is who controls the distance...that is THE key.

A swarmer wants to get inside and smother his opponent's attack with his own attack. A slugger wants to have distance to get leverage on punches and keep the swarmer off of him. A swarmer wants to tie up to get inside, a slugger should tie up to get a break in the action and reset on the break should his footing or position in the ring be wrong.


I'm thinking Foreman-Frazier was Slugger vs Swarmer, Douglas-Tyson ended up being Slugger vs Swarmer, Liston vs Patterson was Slugger vs Swarmer, Argeullo-Rooney was slugger vs swarmer, all of those fights saw the Slugger get the W. Tyson-Holmes was Swarmer vs Slugger, Patterson-Johanssen was Swarmer vs Slugger, Marciano-Louis was Swarmer vs Slugger.


So again, all of those fights were decided by DISTANCE...Swarmer on the inside is bad for the slugger, Slugger on the outside bad for the Swarmer happens every time, every time!







As for Kostya Tszyu, he didn't fight all that much, but hey more power to the guy if you can survive off of a fight a year then there ya go, boxing takes a lot out of you. Now I would have CERTAINLY loved to see him fight more talented fighters and more famous fighters I don't know why that didn't happen. The Judah fight was his big win, a 38 year old JC Chavez meeeh, he couldn't KO Roger Mayweather so I doubt Floyd would have been hit by him.

[Master]

The Judah win was good at the time but Judah went on to be a whipping boy for the big names. Tszyu’s win over Judah is a bit like Calzaghe’s win over Lacy in the sense that it diminished over time. Tszyu did unify a weak division but he only had 34 fights in a 13 year career. I don’t think Mayweather breaks sweat beating Tszyu to be honest. Tszyu vs Gatti would’ve been interesting because Gatti could punch and Tszyu wasn’t hard to find so it would’ve made for exciting action while it lasted. Tszyu did nothing in his career to suggest he could’ve been competitive with Floyd and the difference in speed (and reflexes) would’ve been too much.

Tszyu timing was the best I have ever seen. If he can catch Zab, he could catch Floyd and if he can hit him he can knock him out like Shane nearly did.

Are you saying Zab is as good defensively as Mayweather? Surely not Let’s not forget Judah got beat on his own backyard by Baldomir! Cotto caught Judah but couldn’t catch Floyd. It was a reaching right he caught Judah with when Zab was backing straight up with his head high and hands low. Tszyu isn’t Mosley.

Kostya beat a prime Judah who was a master boxer at the time. After that Zab was never the same again.

You don’t honestly believe that? You bum the strangest fighters. Who had Judah beaten going into the Tszyu fight?

It was a unification fight and Zab was favourite but got blitzed. Kostya is a great boxer with amateur and professional pedigree. What is not to like.

Your taste is weird.

I was talking about your sudden love for Judah. You say you like active fighters yet Tszyu only fought 34 times in 13 years!

Judah was a very talented fighter but people remember his losses.

[GaMo]

The Judah win was good at the time but Judah went on to be a whipping boy for the big names. Tszyu’s win over Judah is a bit like Calzaghe’s win over Lacy in the sense that it diminished over time. Tszyu did unify a weak division but he only had 34 fights in a 13 year career. I don’t think Mayweather breaks sweat beating Tszyu to be honest. Tszyu vs Gatti would’ve been interesting because Gatti could punch and Tszyu wasn’t hard to find so it would’ve made for exciting action while it lasted. Tszyu did nothing in his career to suggest he could’ve been competitive with Floyd and the difference in speed (and reflexes) would’ve been too much.

Tszyu timing was the best I have ever seen. If he can catch Zab, he could catch Floyd and if he can hit him he can knock him out like Shane nearly did.

Are you saying Zab is as good defensively as Mayweather? Surely not Let’s not forget Judah got beat on his own backyard by Baldomir! Cotto caught Judah but couldn’t catch Floyd. It was a reaching right he caught Judah with when Zab was backing straight up with his head high and hands low. Tszyu isn’t Mosley.

Kostya beat a prime Judah who was a master boxer at the time. After that Zab was never the same again.

You don’t honestly believe that? You bum the strangest fighters. Who had Judah beaten going into the Tszyu fight?

It was a unification fight and Zab was favourite but got blitzed. Kostya is a great boxer with amateur and professional pedigree. What is not to like.

Your taste is weird.

I was talking about your sudden love for Judah. You say you like active fighters yet Tszyu only fought 34 times in 13 years!

Judah was a very talented fighter but people remember his losses.

People remember his losses because those were his big fights! Tszyu was a good fighter who unified a weak division and defended his titles at the bare minimum. Floyd would beat him no problem and deep down you know it.

[Primo Carnera]

The Judah win was good at the time but Judah went on to be a whipping boy for the big names. Tszyu’s win over Judah is a bit like Calzaghe’s win over Lacy in the sense that it diminished over time. Tszyu did unify a weak division but he only had 34 fights in a 13 year career. I don’t think Mayweather breaks sweat beating Tszyu to be honest. Tszyu vs Gatti would’ve been interesting because Gatti could punch and Tszyu wasn’t hard to find so it would’ve made for exciting action while it lasted. Tszyu did nothing in his career to suggest he could’ve been competitive with Floyd and the difference in speed (and reflexes) would’ve been too much.

Tszyu timing was the best I have ever seen. If he can catch Zab, he could catch Floyd and if he can hit him he can knock him out like Shane nearly did.

Are you saying Zab is as good defensively as Mayweather? Surely not Let’s not forget Judah got beat on his own backyard by Baldomir! Cotto caught Judah but couldn’t catch Floyd. It was a reaching right he caught Judah with when Zab was backing straight up with his head high and hands low. Tszyu isn’t Mosley.

Kostya beat a prime Judah who was a master boxer at the time. After that Zab was never the same again.

You don’t honestly believe that? You bum the strangest fighters. Who had Judah beaten going into the Tszyu fight?

It was a unification fight and Zab was favourite but got blitzed. Kostya is a great boxer with amateur and professional pedigree. What is not to like.

Your taste is weird.

I was talking about your sudden love for Judah. You say you like active fighters yet Tszyu only fought 34 times in 13 years!

Judah was a very talented fighter but people remember his losses.

Yep, and there were a lot of losses. To every top fighter he ever fought. So , yes a talented fighter, but short of top, top level.

[GaMo]

The Judah win was good at the time but Judah went on to be a whipping boy for the big names. Tszyu’s win over Judah is a bit like Calzaghe’s win over Lacy in the sense that it diminished over time. Tszyu did unify a weak division but he only had 34 fights in a 13 year career. I don’t think Mayweather breaks sweat beating Tszyu to be honest. Tszyu vs Gatti would’ve been interesting because Gatti could punch and Tszyu wasn’t hard to find so it would’ve made for exciting action while it lasted. Tszyu did nothing in his career to suggest he could’ve been competitive with Floyd and the difference in speed (and reflexes) would’ve been too much.

Tszyu timing was the best I have ever seen. If he can catch Zab, he could catch Floyd and if he can hit him he can knock him out like Shane nearly did.

Are you saying Zab is as good defensively as Mayweather? Surely not Let’s not forget Judah got beat on his own backyard by Baldomir! Cotto caught Judah but couldn’t catch Floyd. It was a reaching right he caught Judah with when Zab was backing straight up with his head high and hands low. Tszyu isn’t Mosley.

Kostya beat a prime Judah who was a master boxer at the time. After that Zab was never the same again.

You don’t honestly believe that? You bum the strangest fighters. Who had Judah beaten going into the Tszyu fight?

It was a unification fight and Zab was favourite but got blitzed. Kostya is a great boxer with amateur and professional pedigree. What is not to like.

Your taste is weird.

I was talking about your sudden love for Judah. You say you like active fighters yet Tszyu only fought 34 times in 13 years!

Judah was a very talented fighter but people remember his losses.

Yep, and there were a lot of losses. To every top fighter he ever fought. So , yes a talented fighter, but short of top, top level.

Top level? He got beat in his own backyard against Malinaggi and Baldimir!

[Ron Swanson]

Tszyu has a low fight total because he was at top level early. Everyone slows down fight numbers when on top.(title in less than 3 years, his 14th fight)

Something to consider is Tszyu has a huge right, so obviously his best wins would come against southpaws. His jab wasn’t his bread and butter which means he wouldn’t have fared well against Floyd. Think of how inept Manny looked, you have to have a formidable jab to stay with Floyd.

[Spicoli]

In hindsight and while I always loved watching Kostya fight you couldn't get around the fact that he wasn't hard to miss with fast punches. Judah actually cracked him early until the the roof collapsed on him and the Phillips ending wasn't a complete shock as you watched it slowly unfold as nuts as that sounds. But he wasn't fighting total bums and had a solid early run with some capable fighters. What always got me was how Uncle Roger went the full 12. Judah was massive win and he earned every bit and in fairness Judah rebuilt and did more than just lose to Baldo. Even less of a slight as Mayweather saw fit to fight them both regardless and even Canelo batted out his shadow years later and acted like it meant something.

[Master]

So there you have it GaMo. Quality over quantity with Kostya which is why he only a fewer fights than others.

[GaMo]

So there you have it GaMo. Quality over quantity with Kostya which is why he only a fewer fights than others.

What quality? Judah is his best win don’t think Cotto or Mayweather consider Judah the best guy they beat because they actually fought the best. Tszyu didn’t even lose to the elite!

[mikeeod]

So there you have it GaMo. Quality over quantity with Kostya which is why he only a fewer fights than others.

What quality? Judah is his best win don’t think Cotto or Mayweather consider Judah the best guy they beat because they actually fought the best. Tszyu didn’t even lose to the elite!

This is all opinion, so not saying mine is valid and yours isn't, but undefeated fighters are the hardest to defeat.(as the saying goes). The version of Judah that Kostya beat was the best version we saw (MUCH better than the one Cotto and Paulie beat), and Kostya destroyed him. Master is right when he says Judah came back for some decent wins after, and even showed glimpses of Great potential in some losses, but Zab became inconsistent after that first loss.

I also don't think you give Sharmba Mitchell as much credit as he deserves. Mitchell was a very good fighter, with solid boxing skills and good speed. Kostya definitely doesn't have the quality of opposition that Manny, Hop, Evander, Oscar...etc. had, but he didn't duck or fight weak opposition either.

[Master]

So there you have it GaMo. Quality over quantity with Kostya which is why he only a fewer fights than others.

What quality? Judah is his best win don’t think Cotto or Mayweather consider Judah the best guy they beat because they actually fought the best. Tszyu didn’t even lose to the elite!

This is all opinion, so not saying mine is valid and yours isn't, but undefeated fighters are the hardest to defeat.(as the saying goes). The version of Judah that Kostya beat was the best version we saw (MUCH better than the one Cotto and Paulie beat), and Kostya destroyed him. Master is right when he says Judah came back for some decent wins after, and even showed glimpses of Great potential in some losses, but Zab became inconsistent after that first loss.

I also don't think you give Sharmba Mitchell as much credit as he deserves. Mitchell was a very good fighter, with solid boxing skills and good speed. Kostya definitely doesn't have the quality of opposition that Manny, Hop, Evander, Oscar...etc. had, but he didn't duck or fight weak opposition either.

Exactly.

By the time Floyd and Cotto fought Zab he was not the top fighter he was when he lost for the first time. They had the sloppy seconds of Tszyu.

[GaMo]

Judah isn’t anything special! I’m not sure why you’re trying to make out he was a great fighter when his best win (coming in against Tszyu) was against Mickey Ward. Tszyu was getting blasted around the ring in the first round and his victory could be described as a lucky punch. As for Mitchell... he was knocked out by light punchers twice at lightweight so is that win really impressive!? Floyd also stopped Mitchell so Tszyu’s two biggest wins are shared by Floyd but they’re not big wins for him because he done so much more.

[Master]

Judah isn’t anything special! I’m not sure why you’re trying to make out he was a great fighter when his best win (coming in against Tszyu) was against Mickey Ward. Tszyu was getting blasted around the ring in the first round and his victory could be described as a lucky punch. As for Mitchell... he was knocked out by light punchers twice at lightweight so is that win really impressive!? Floyd also stopped Mitchell so Tszyu’s two biggest wins are shared by Floyd but they’re not big wins for him because he done so much more.

The reason why Zab and Micthell are not great wins for Floyd was because they were finished at the top level by the time he fought them.

One of Kostya best wins was against Miguel Angel Gonzalez. He was indestructible that night.