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Thread: Today in Trump

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  1. #2731
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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    Kirk, the increase on taxes which Bill Clinton was able to get passed without a republican vote, well here is an article from Forbes, it’s an old article, but as you can see it has a different view on somethings. Often, there are views other than yours Kirk, and believe it or not, you aren’t always right.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/charles.../#78f19bd36e8a
    Here's the entire argument that the column makes laid out in the first sentence:

    One of the most dangerous myths that has infected the current debate over the direction of tax policy is the oft repeated claim that the tax increases under President Bill Clinton led to the boom of the 1990s.

    Let's say that's true. It's not an argument I've ever made, but never mind. Let's accept without going into the actual facts and the evidence that it's true. Even accepting the argument it's clear from history that increasing taxes doesn't prevent economic growth. Clinton increased taxes, something that we're told will reduce growth but instead a boom happened! Let's take a trip down memory lane and see what the GOP had to say about the tax increase when it was enacted:

    Rep. John Kasich (R-Ohio), 7/28/93: “This plan will not work. If it was to work, then I’d have to become a Democrat.” (N.B.: Kasich remains a Republican, despite the economic boom and surpluses of the Clinton years.)

    Rep. Jim Ramstad (R-Minn.), 3/17/93: “[This] will stifle economic growth, destroy jobs, reduce revenues and increase the deficit.”

    Rep. Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.), 3/17/93: “It will be the kind of impact that this country can’t absorb. It will slow economic growth, contribute to the massive federal deficit.”

    Rep. Christopher Cox (R-Calif.), 5/27/93: “This is really the Dr. Kevorkian plan for our economy.”

    Rep. Dick Armey (R-Texas), 8/2/93: “The impact on job creation is going to be devastating, and the American young people in particular will suffer a fairly substantial deferment of their lives because there simply won’t be jobs for the next two to three years to go around to our young graduates across the country.”

    Rep. Joel Hefley (R-Colo.), 8/4/93: “[This] will raise your taxes, increase the deficit and kill over 1 million jobs.”

    Rep. Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.), 8/5/93: “I believe this will lead to a recession next year. This is the Democrat machine’s recession, and each one of them will be held personally accountable.”

    Rep. Armey, 8/5/93: “The economy will sputter along. Dreams will be put off and all this for the hollow promise of deficit reduction and magical theories of lower interest rates. Like so many of the president’s past promises, deficit reduction will be another cruel hoax.”

    Rep. Jim Bunning (R-Ky.), 8/5/93: “It will not cut the deficit. It will not create jobs. And it will not cut spending.”

    Rep. Robert Dornan (R-Calif.), 8/5/93: “The problem with our economy is that there is too little employment and too little growth. This plan will do nothing to improve that condition and will actually make it worse.”

    Rep. Thomas Ewing (R-Ill.), 8/5/93: “This bill is a disaster waiting to happen.”

    Rep. Phil Crane (R-Ill.), 3/18/93: “[This bill is] a recipe for economic and fiscal disaster.”

    And finally, Kasich again, 8/5/93: “Do you know what? This is your package. We will come back here next year and try to help you when this puts the economy in the gutter.”

  2. #2732
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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    https://www.cato.org/publications/co...balance-budget

    See Kirk there are things you don’t understand about the US. Look in the constitution about who has power of the purse strings as we say here. You look at Obama, Clinton, Trump but we have separate branches of government here. The balanced budget act did not come from the White House. It’s actually the reason I don’t think Trump will be able build the border walls with emergency powers, the executive lacks the power of the purse. So when you want to go back to each administration and look at numbers realize it’s not as simple as Obama or Trump or since Ford this or that. It’s not how our Country works. I don’t expect you do get that right away, it takes a while, it’s a lot of reading and mostly experience. Charts are helpful but there is shit behind the charts that give it meaning you idiot.
    This guy is right when he says that Gingrich recieved no credit for balancing the budget. That's because he did indeed have nothing to do with it. The guy who wrote this article has spent a career being wrong and lying in the service of enacting tax cuts for billionaires and deregulating their businesses. An example:

    https://archives.cjr.org/united_stat..._city_star.php

  3. #2733
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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    Here is a breakdown maybe you won’t cry about

    Reagan

    Started Presidency: $965 billion
    Ended Presidency: $2.74 trillion
    Increased 184% or 13.9% per year
    H.W. Bush

    Started Presidency: $2.74 trillion
    Ended Presidency: $4.23 trillion
    Increased 54% or 11.5% per year (only in office for four years)
    Clinton

    Started Presidency: $4.23 trillion
    Ended Presidency: $5.77 trillion
    Increased 36% or 4.0% per year
    W. Bush

    Started Presidency: $5.77 trillion
    Ended Presidency: $11.1 trillion
    Increased 93% or 8.5% per year
    Obama

    Started Presidency: $11.1 trillion
    Ended Presidency: $19.85 trillion
    Increased 78% or 7.5% per year

    When you talk about inheriting shit do you know what was going on in the US when Reagan took office. Or you just say Reagan had
    Once again, since the Ford administration, every single GOP prez has increased the deficit while in office and every Democratic prez has reduced it. There's a pattern there. Posting the numbers in nominal dollars without rationalising them by using current day value or as a percentage of GDP or so on is innumerate and means you're making apples to oranges comparisons. Wherever you got this from is just using numbers to fool people and make a bullshit argument.

  4. #2734
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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    And Kirk, although you can’t have discussion with the insults, put downs, realization that other views exist. Your answer to all is taxes. Why not smaller government. How much redundancy to we have? These government shutdowns are for nonessential workers and look at how many people it effected. By the way I don’t mean to sound cold but I don’t have a lot of sympathy for them. They will come back and receive all back pay accumulated. Private sector doesn’t get that. You are out the door and good luck. It could start through attrition and get rid of some waste we have that only benefits lobbyists groups. You saw Schumer and Nancy want to make corporate tax cuts eliminated unless corporate buybacks are limited or taken away. I said, when we talked about it I did think if the cuts to federal taxes were the only thing that accounted for corporate growth this year than next year could be a problem but these things usually have a few years to have an effect. I said before went trump started this he put some caps on buybacks I don’t think he or congress would have the power to enact such a thing. Buybacks aren’t all bad. If you can buy a company for less than it is worth I’d buy it as well. Buy low sell high.
    What am I supposed to say, I respectfully disagree with the brilliant argument you googled up? You haven't got a fucking clue mate. It's not like you know nothing. You have a gigantic minus level of knowledge. The things you believe to be true are actually completely wrong. Add on all the crap you dredge up via google and it's just a muck spreader of bullshit. Never mind. Next fight is up.

    And you have no business managing any money you have. Assuming you haven't already it's a matter of time until you fuck it up and that's coming from somebody with three decades of experience in the business. Go and read about Jack Bogle and what he did for half a dozen hours and learn from it.

  5. #2735
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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    And Kirk, although you can’t have discussion with the insults, put downs, realization that other views exist. Your answer to all is taxes. Why not smaller government. How much redundancy to we have? These government shutdowns are for nonessential workers and look at how many people it effected. By the way I don’t mean to sound cold but I don’t have a lot of sympathy for them. They will come back and receive all back pay accumulated. Private sector doesn’t get that. You are out the door and good luck. It could start through attrition and get rid of some waste we have that only benefits lobbyists groups. You saw Schumer and Nancy want to make corporate tax cuts eliminated unless corporate buybacks are limited or taken away. I said, when we talked about it I did think if the cuts to federal taxes were the only thing that accounted for corporate growth this year than next year could be a problem but these things usually have a few years to have an effect. I said before went trump started this he put some caps on buybacks I don’t think he or congress would have the power to enact such a thing. Buybacks aren’t all bad. If you can buy a company for less than it is worth I’d buy it as well. Buy low sell high.
    Why not smaller government? Let's have a look then.



    Health insurance, old age insurance (social security) and the military is three quarters of the federal government. So the government is basically an insurance company with an army. In case you don't know there are large majorities of voters, including Republican voters, who want the government to spend more on Medicare and Social Security. If you add on the whopping three percent the government spends on education (I don't think you want to cut that?) and interest on the debt you're up to 84 percent of total spending. The biggest chunk of that is nine percent on welfare. The biggest single plurality of people that that money goes to is low income white people -- Trump voters. Think Wal Mart workers who qualify for food stamps and Medicaid because their wages are so shitty.

    So where do you make the cuts?

    By the way taxes isn't my entire answer. I'd like all workers to be able to unionise so they could get back to the amount of bargaining power they had back in the fifties and sixties, back when America was great. That and fifties/sixties era tax rates and your problems are largely solved. Economic problems that is.

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    Default Re: Today in Trump


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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    Where are we at with Trump and his state of emergency just to get the wall?
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Where are we at with Trump and his state of emergency just to get the wall?
    He was offered $25 billion in no strings wall building money last year by the Democrats but he turned it down because he thought he could negotiate a better deal and he's managed to art-of-the-deal his way to one billion dollars which can only be spent with endless restrictions. On top of the restrictions there'll be endless lawsuits not least from the landowners on the border. It'll be tied up in the courts for years. So far he hasn't managed to build an inch of the wall but he appears to have convinced his idiot supporters that it's flying up.




    Here's one of Trump's top advisors talking to some Wall Street Journal idiot:

    https://twitter.com/bad_takes/status...19582589792256

    These people are genuine fucking nutcases.

    Here's the opinion of one of the FISA judges the nutcase was on about. The ex head of the FISA court:

    https://twitter.com/JoyceWhiteVance/...32662181269506

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    Default Re: Today in Trump


  12. #2742
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    Default Re: Today in Trump


  13. #2743
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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    Game of Thrones memes for support of the wall. How'd that huge wall work out for them . Trump needs to hire better trolls for the propaganda

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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    Game of Thrones memes for support of the wall. How'd that huge wall work out for them
    The Wall kept the Others for thousands of years.

    Until Jon was persuaded by the imp into invading the White Walkers' domain to capture a wight, and Danerys and her dragons had to come to their rescue. The Night King wouldn't have got past the wall without the undead Viserion.

    Hadrian's Wall kept out the Caledonian's for hundreds of years, until the Romans left Britain.

    Israel built a wall to keep out Arab goyim, how do you feel about that Spicoli?


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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    We're not Israel..believe it or not..and we're not going to have armed turrets or guards on any wall Freedom. And surely we're not in a fantasy adventure but if Mexicans manage to get Dragons, well then I believe we're all properly fooked . Honestly..this isn't about a wall. It's about the "fight for" the wall. It's Trump symbolism and low hanging fruit for a base. There will be no 'wall' sea to sea. He absolutely pooched immigration reform and real boarder security by reducing it to rhetorical nonsense and declaring a non emergency emergency.

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