Today in Trump

[walrus]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...rticle/327389/

This is an older article about the Stuxnet virus, another one we fucked up on

[TitoFan]

Lyle, I get your points. But I'd like to address each one with my own point of view.

1. Just because Trump didn't berate Putin in public doesn't mean that they didn't have a knock down drag out in private (as is more typical with diplomacy)

Ok let's say you're right here. Really there's no way of knowing if Trump had that "knock down drag out" in private, but let's say he did. Being intelligent men the both of them, isn't there something to be said about Trump wanting to save a little face? And shouldn't Putin understand, if they really want to put on a show and appease all sides? Ok so the knockdown dragout goes.... but in public something should've been said or interchanged, so Trump could save some face with his many critics, and get the hounds off his back.

2. The indicted Russians are accused of doing exactly what Americans do in other nations' elections.

Absolutely NO argument there. Matter of fact, glad to hear you say it.... because many patriotic deniers would murder you if they heard you say that. Why..... it's sacrilegious. But still..... rightly or wrongly, the old adage of two wrongs don't make a right still applies. Yes, the Americans have done it... but it's still wrong of the Russians to do it to the U.S. It's wrong no matter who does it to whom.

3. Russia apparently played both sides against each other so it's not as if Putin said "OK comrades, go win Trump this election".

But they meddled, and that's the point. Whether they played both sides or not, it was wrong of them to meddle. That point should be made crystal clear.

4. Demanding Trump attack Putin about election meddling is demanding Trump weaken the legitimacy of his own presidency....what bright person (let alone a politician) would open themselves up for that? Trump gets 90% negative press anyway why give the rabid anti-Trump press red meat?

Not necessarily. Again, Trump is a sufficiently intelligent and savvy person to be able to say "Ok, you meddled. Not that it had any influence over the final outcome, but you meddled, and it was wrong. Don't do it again.... (wink, wink)." You get some of the hounds off your back and it's business as usual. C'mon..... I'm sure Trump, with the help of his consultants, could've pulled it off.

5. Does no one remember "Tell Vladimir after I win the election I'll have more flexibility" - Obama OR the plastic "Reset" button handed to the Russians by Hillary? I guess those don't matter because Trump Derangement Syndrome is real.

Well..... you should know by now I'm a Hillary hater, and Obama was mediocre at best. But once again we're talking about Trump here. I know you, like many others, like to throw rocks at past Presidents when confronted with criticism about the current President. But logically we should be past that now. Trump's been President for a year and a half. Time to let it go.

[walrus]

Lyle, I get your points. But I'd like to address each one with my own point of view.

1. Just because Trump didn't berate Putin in public doesn't mean that they didn't have a knock down drag out in private (as is more typical with diplomacy)

Ok let's say you're right here. Really there's no way of knowing if Trump had that "knock down drag out" in private, but let's say he did. Being intelligent men the both of them, isn't there something to be said about Trump wanting to save a little face? And shouldn't Putin understand, if they really want to put on a show and appease all sides? Ok so the knockdown dragout goes.... but in public something should've been said or interchanged, so Trump could save some face with his many critics, and get the hounds off his back.

2. The indicted Russians are accused of doing exactly what Americans do in other nations' elections.

Absolutely NO argument there. Matter of fact, glad to hear you say it.... because many patriotic deniers would murder you if they heard you say that. Why..... it's sacrilegious. But still..... rightly or wrongly, the old adage of two wrongs don't make a right still applies. Yes, the Americans have done it... but it's still wrong of the Russians to do it to the U.S. It's wrong no matter who does it to whom.

3. Russia apparently played both sides against each other so it's not as if Putin said "OK comrades, go win Trump this election".

But they meddled, and that's the point. Whether they played both sides or not, it was wrong of them to meddle. That point should be made crystal clear.

4. Demanding Trump attack Putin about election meddling is demanding Trump weaken the legitimacy of his own presidency....what bright person (let alone a politician) would open themselves up for that? Trump gets 90% negative press anyway why give the rabid anti-Trump press red meat?

Not necessarily. Again, Trump is a sufficiently intelligent and savvy person to be able to say "Ok, you meddled. Not that it had any influence over the final outcome, but you meddled, and it was wrong. Don't do it again.... (wink, wink)." You get some of the hounds off your back and it's business as usual. C'mon..... I'm sure Trump, with the help of his consultants, could've pulled it off.

5. Does no one remember "Tell Vladimir after I win the election I'll have more flexibility" - Obama OR the plastic "Reset" button handed to the Russians by Hillary? I guess those don't matter because Trump Derangement Syndrome is real.

Well..... you should know by now I'm a Hillary hater, and Obama was mediocre at best. But once again we're talking about Trump here. I know you, like many others, like to throw rocks at past Presidents when confronted with criticism about the current President. But logically we should be past that now. Trump's been President for a year and a half. Time to let it go.

Oh no tits, Obama was blaming bush for shit for 8 years. Obama said the Russian shit was no big deal. If we are so worried about the safety of our elections, let’s have voter ID laws. This is political circus

[brocktonblockbust]

The only person it's clear to is you Kirkland

[brocktonblockbust]

I voted for Donald Trump not because any Russian convinced me.

[walrus]

I tell you what I would like to see, start initiating cyber treaties. The Stuxnet worm or virus shows that we can have the ability to shut a country’s infrastructure down. This is some serious shit.

[El Kabong]

No worries brother I have grown to enjoy debating you

1. Ok let's say you're right here. Really there's no way of knowing if Trump had that "knock down drag out" in private, but let's say he did. Being intelligent men the both of them, isn't there something to be said about Trump wanting to save a little face? And shouldn't Putin understand, if they really want to put on a show and appease all sides? Ok so the knockdown dragout goes.... but in public something should've been said or interchanged, so Trump could save some face with his many critics, and get the hounds off his back.

Who isn't appeased? I thought at the start of his Presidency the MAIN issue was "OMG Trump is going to get us nuked!!!" well he's just been very civil with a world leader he considers a gigantic rival (see Trumps previous tweets, see his actions prior to their meeting, he's not kowtowing he's just not overreacting). this is a GOOD thing. His quote about not caring about the political risks to achieve peace....had a Democrat said that the whole of CNN would have nutted all over themselves.

Also there is absolutely NOTHING Tito which will get "the hounds off of his back"....Trump could help an old lady cross the street and I guarantee you CNN/MSNBC/ETC would have a negative angle on it.

2. Absolutely NO argument there. Matter of fact, glad to hear you say it.... because many patriotic deniers would murder you if they heard you say that. Why..... it's sacrilegious. But still..... rightly or wrongly, the old adage of two wrongs don't make a right still applies. Yes, the Americans have done it... but it's still wrong of the Russians to do it to the U.S. It's wrong no matter who does it to whom.

OK then we agree now the issue becomes to what degree was there meddling and was any damage done?

3. But they meddled, and that's the point. Whether they played both sides or not, it was wrong of them to meddle. That point should be made crystal clear.

Again we're now to the point of penalty....how much should Russia suffer when American intelligence officers admit freely and openly that 0 votes were changed? It's like if I attempt to murder someone and fail the penalty will be less than if I successfully do it and it would be different if I killed someone by accident.....so where we are is the Russians attempted to meddle (to what degree? ), what did they end up affecting? So what should their penalty be? ......in this day and age I'm certain a lot of developed countries do this kind of thing, the internet makes it very easy for me to espouse my political beliefs on here to any and all readers so how far down this rabbit hole do we go?

4. Not necessarily. Again, Trump is a sufficiently intelligent and savvy person to be able to say "Ok, you meddled. Not that it had any influence over the final outcome, but you meddled, and it was wrong. Don't do it again.... (wink, wink)." You get some of the hounds off your back and it's business as usual. C'mon..... I'm sure Trump, with the help of his consultants, could've pulled it off.

The same people who once believed this...


Now think Russia ruined the election and they say absolutely NOTHING about Hillary who DID rig her nomination against Bernie...so if Russia is guilty of this then Hillary is certainly guilty and she was successful with it.

Well..... you should know by now I'm a Hillary hater, and Obama was mediocre at best. But once again we're talking about Trump here. I know you, like many others, like to throw rocks at past Presidents when confronted with criticism about the current President. But logically we should be past that now. Trump's been President for a year and a half. Time to let it go.

Past sets precedent for the future it's why I bring Obama and Hillary up it's why had he lost you (or someone else) would bring up Trump. It's not about "letting go" it's about being intellectually honest and consistent...just my take on it.

[brocktonblockbust]

The globalists have had a Stranglehold since the late 1980s with political correctness and slowly ratcheting that up to make free speech very very questionable and for us to be bending over backwards to try to avoid even the remotest illusions of racism and bigotry. Now how long comes Trump and nobody is ready for the in-your-face Frank talk. Now we have Trump derangement syndrome full blown

[Master]

The globalists have had a Stranglehold since the late 1980s with political correctness and slowly ratcheting that up to make free speech very very questionable and for us to be bending over backwards to try to avoid even the remotest illusions of racism and bigotry. Now how long comes Trump and nobody is ready for the in-your-face Frank talk. Now we have Trump derangement syndrome full blown

Trump was not in your face with Putin more with his own CIA, NATO, EU and May. Makes you wonder why that is.

[brocktonblockbust]

Master , there are 2 things unrelated happening at once. One is the FBI and DOJ were severely infested with biased operatives against Trump at all costs, and totally for Clinton. So he's treating them tough now.

The other is ...why NOT get along with Putin? Those are unrelated. But you're trying to connect them.

[walrus]

The Obama’s attacks by trump are shameful. He will step it up as midterms approach. Even bush, the neocon, throws in some jabs from time to time. Obama set up a team to undermine trump. Any time I do a search on trump it’s all the bullshit attacks on the first twelve pages. @Kirkland Laing puts fake news on web sites which proves English meddling. The deepstate is having seizures.

[TitoFan]

Presidents and their performances should be looked at in a vacuum. That is to say forget about past Presidents. We have the same type of politics down here with the Governors. Always blaming the previous Governor when things don't go right. It's B.S. It's too easy a card to play. A guy clocks out he clocks out. Why keep beating that dead horse? I hated Bush Jr. with a passion. But once he left he left. It was time to concentrate on Obama. I thought Obama was mediocre at best, and was totally disappointed in how he failed to use his Presidency to improve race relations in the States. Didn't do so well with the economy, either. But he's gone now too. That's why I don't like him being brought up in defense of Trump. Let Trump's achievements or screw-ups stand on their own. But I guess that's too much to ask.

[walrus]

Presidents and their performances should be looked at in a vacuum. That is to say forget about past Presidents. We have the same type of politics down here with the Governors. Always blaming the previous Governor when things don't go right. It's B.S. It's too easy a card to play. A guy clocks out he clocks out. Why keep beating that dead horse? I hated Bush Jr. with a passion. But once he left he left. It was time to concentrate on Obama. I thought Obama was mediocre at best, and was totally disappointed in how he failed to use his Presidency to improve race relations in the States. Didn't do so well with the economy, either. But he's gone now too. That's why I don't like him being brought up in defense of Trump. Let Trump's achievements or screw-ups stand on their own. But I guess that's too much to ask.

I hear u tits but that’s not politics. We still compare presidents to Lincoln and Kennedy. I don’t always like it but it is a yardstick to measure presidents by. It’s what they do in debates and on the news, even history books. It makes sense to compare how one pres is treated differently for similar actions and situations, it shows where we are at in hypocrisy and partisanship. I know you disagree but of course I am right so don’t bother replying.

[walrus]

Presidents and their performances should be looked at in a vacuum. That is to say forget about past Presidents. We have the same type of politics down here with the Governors. Always blaming the previous Governor when things don't go right. It's B.S. It's too easy a card to play. A guy clocks out he clocks out. Why keep beating that dead horse? I hated Bush Jr. with a passion. But once he left he left. It was time to concentrate on Obama. I thought Obama was mediocre at best, and was totally disappointed in how he failed to use his Presidency to improve race relations in the States. Didn't do so well with the economy, either. But he's gone now too. That's why I don't like him being brought up in defense of Trump. Let Trump's achievements or screw-ups stand on their own. But I guess that's too much to ask.

I hear u tits but that’s not politics. We still compare presidents to Lincoln and Kennedy. I don’t always like it but it is a yardstick to measure presidents by. It’s what they do in debates and on the news, even history books. It makes sense to compare how one pres is treated differently for similar actions and situations, it shows where we are at in hypocrisy and partisanship. I know you disagree but of course I am right so don’t bother replying.

tits, we also need to compare presidents to see what we have done wrong with foreign policy that made the Russia, best Korea etc. mistakes that lead to the mess we are in

[TitoFan]

Presidents and their performances should be looked at in a vacuum. That is to say forget about past Presidents. We have the same type of politics down here with the Governors. Always blaming the previous Governor when things don't go right. It's B.S. It's too easy a card to play. A guy clocks out he clocks out. Why keep beating that dead horse? I hated Bush Jr. with a passion. But once he left he left. It was time to concentrate on Obama. I thought Obama was mediocre at best, and was totally disappointed in how he failed to use his Presidency to improve race relations in the States. Didn't do so well with the economy, either. But he's gone now too. That's why I don't like him being brought up in defense of Trump. Let Trump's achievements or screw-ups stand on their own. But I guess that's too much to ask.

I hear u tits but that’s not politics. We still compare presidents to Lincoln and Kennedy. I don’t always like it but it is a yardstick to measure presidents by. It’s what they do in debates and on the news, even history books. It makes sense to compare how one pres is treated differently for similar actions and situations, it shows where we are at in hypocrisy and partisanship. I know you disagree but of course I am right so don’t bother replying.

tits, we also need to compare presidents to see what we have done wrong with foreign policy that made the Russia, best Korea etc. mistakes that lead to the mess we are in

Comparisons are used to whine, bitch and moan. Nothing constructive about that. All it says is "my guy is doing it wrong? well..... so-and-so did it worse." Lowers the bar sort to speak.