Did RJJ Kill HBO Boxing?

[brocktonblockbust]

Roy Jones is one of the greatest fighters of all time

[mikeeod]

i think about how HBO conducted business during its heyday, and remember the business model being elite fighters signed to exclusive, long term contracts. It worked when you had a sweet pea Whitaker who moves up to 140 after cleaning out 135 and white washing the #2 fighter (Pineda), before moving up again to face #3 p4p McGirt to force #1 p4p Chavez to fight him. It works when Oscar fights Sweet Pea, Ike Quartey, Tito, Mosley, Vargas...etc., and his “easy” fights are against Miguel Angel Garcia, David Kamau, and Oba Carr.

That model broke when Roy was signed to a long contract and didn’t fight his topped perceived threats after James Toney until the Tarver fight. This is not to say Roy was solely to blame, or even wrong for his mindset and business savvy. This is just to point out the different perspective Roy brought and how that changed the game with how fighters viewed the risk of fighting consistent top notch competition.

As for some of the comments on bias and Roy fighting and toying with great comletition: get a grip. Some facts about Roy:
1. He never completely unified any division he was in (Darius was lineal champ and they never even fought).
2. The only p4p ranked fighter Roy ever beat (while they were ranked p4p) was Toney.
3. Roy is the only elite fighter I can remember who was boycotted for fighting sub par opposition. This isnt me being biased, this boycott was orchestrated by a number of fans who felt as a collective that Roy was ducking Benn, Eubank, Collins, Liles, Nunn, Darius, Graciano, Jirov...etc.

So it’s Roy’s fault fans are stupid? Who cares what P4P rankings say, BHop was great long before people knew it. He was great when Roy fought him, regardless of ignorance.

Roy never said he wouldn’t fight his subordinates, he said he needed to be paid accordingly. Everyone should have been chasing Roy, anyone that wasn’t desperate to fight the top guy is at fault. The guy in the lead doesn’t chase those behind him.

Lots of people hate Roy because he was so damn good. They invent nonsense like saying BHop was better because he was good longer, it’s gibberish because he was never as good. That’s how you tell how good someone is, by how good they are. Jirov, Jirov, we’re really talking about Jirov hahahaha

Roy Jones is the most talented fighter any of us has ever seen live, by FAR. Appreciate it

Are fans “stupid” because they want to see competitive fights As for what p4p rankings say, it isn’t that people “care” as much as it is a way to gauge who the top fighters are at the the time. P4P rankings show top fighters in the sport at the time of the rankings- you may disagree with the order/placement, but there is no denying they are among the best in the sport.

The point was someone like Oscar fought Tito, Quartey, Sweet Pea, Moseley...etc., while they were in there prime and at their best (p4p ranked high at the time). Mosley fought Oscar, Winky, Floyd, and Margarito. Holyfield fought Tyson, Bowe, Lewis, Moorer...etc. BHop fought Tito, Winky, Tarver, Pavlik...etc., while they were ranked p4p. Roy fought Toney. Regardless of whose fault it was in your opinion, or should’ve chased who in your opinion...etc., the fact remains that you will be hard pressed to find another elite fighter who fought as weak competition during their prime years.

As for me “hating” Roy, you lose all credibility when I say he was an amazing fighter and talent, as well as an ATG and your response is that I hate him. You lose more credibility when you make your point about BHop not being considered better than Roy. Both guys were great in their own ways, and who you prefer is just that: personal preference. Valid cases can be made for both, however, and anyone who can’t see or admit that is irrationally biased.

[mikeeod]

How would Roy singlehandedly have had so much as a role in it? He disappeared from the upper echelon of the sport 15 years ago... HBO has had plenty of top fighters and shown plenty of top cards since then, but they were slowly phasing boxing out for ages. I don’t know how theyre doing overall, but as was said they’ve always had far more lucrative programming.

Master was correct in his initial post/observation that my title asks if Roy killed boxing on HBO, but my post asks if Roy added to HBO boxing’s demise. My son would call that “click bait” (I think), but I really was only trying to keep the title short (not misrepresent). For the record, I think everyone has been correct in their observations of additional factors of the demise.

The point is that Roy changed the approach of fighters from fighting to get the long term contract on HBO, and then fighting the best like the suits wanted to fighting the best to get the contract and then minimizing risk by fighting inferior competition for as long as possible. Floyd used a similar strategy of minimizing risk (both in opponent selection and during the fight), but in my opinion Floyd was better at the game and fought better competition overall. This isn’t to say I think either guy was wrong, or not great, or scared...etc., just that both put money over what the fans wanted to see.

[Master]

Floyd is the bigger killer, how TV executives overpaid for the primadonna I do not know.

[mikeeod]

Floyd is the bigger killer, how TV executives overpaid for the primadonna I do not know.

I’m torn over Floyd. Some days I agree with you 100% because I think of the Manny fight and some of the times Floyd played it safe and didn’t get the stoppage when he could have. Other days I think his brand, his character (Money May)/schtick, and events like the Connor fight brought boxing to another level. I love the guy’s skill in the ring, his intelligence (very street smart), and the fact that he had the courage to believe in himself, buy his contract out from Arum and make himself the success he is. It’s hard for me to tell what is just an act and how much is actually him being a douche.

[Master]

Floyd is the bigger killer, how TV executives overpaid for the primadonna I do not know.

I’m torn over Floyd. Some days I agree with you 100% because I think of the Manny fight and some of the times Floyd played it safe and didn’t get the stoppage when he could have. Other days I think his brand, his character (Money May)/schtick, and events like the Connor fight brought boxing to another level. I love the guy’s skill in the ring, his intelligence (very street smart), and the fact that he had the courage to believe in himself, buy his contract out from Arum and make himself the success he is. It’s hard for me to tell what is just an act and how much is actually him being a douche.

Fair enough but I think he is more douche bag than pioneer.

[brocktonblockbust]

I agree with master. Floyd Mayweather Jr completely destroyed the sport of boxing

[mikeeod]

Roy Jones is one of the greatest fighters of all time

I don’t disagree with you on this. I think he is the most gifted ever, even more than Meldrick Taylor, Ali, and Floyd. I also agree with most that if he had fought all of the others considered his biggest threats he would’ve won almost all of them (everyone has style issues n bad days) and had the potential to surpass Ray Robinson as the GOAT. He didn’t accomplish those things however and that is the larger point of this post.

[brocktonblockbust]

Roy Jones is one of the greatest fighters of all time

I don’t disagree with you on this. I think he is the most gifted ever, even more than Meldrick Taylor, Ali, and Floyd. I also agree with most that if he had fought all of the others considered his biggest threats he would’ve won almost all of them (everyone has style issues n bad days) and had the potential to surpass Ray Robinson as the GOAT. He didn’t accomplish those things however and that is the larger point of this post.

I do agree with you that he did not accomplish those things.

[ykdadamaja]

Roy didn't do anything to HBO. HBO did in HBO with not reigning in LARRY MERCHANT when he dissed Floyd Mayweather and Mayweather had already had in mind to bolt to Showtime and carry all of Al Haymon's talent/stars with him. That was the beginning of the end. Merchant had been on Floyd's ass for nearly two years calling him boring and not watchable, breaking down the man's marketability. Merchant should have been reprimanded before it got that far- He did it to RJJ too and Lampley began to jump in on it for a while too.

Arum and King could not carry HBO up against a lineup like that. King was already out of the business, effectively, about that time and he never exclusively workd with HBO over Showtime anyway. Arum has a good stable, but you need more than just Manny Pac to carry a network.

All of this, and while I like Jim Lampley, he involves himself with the fighters so much and turns it into a sob-fest and that turns off hardcore, blood and guts guys who want CARNAGE and BLOODLAYS and NEAR FATAL ASSAULTS...

Gatta give it to Mauro Ronallo, he makes a brutal beatdown look exciting even though he is kinda like a cunt about it. ESPN is just doing what it can, but I submit, there is NO WAY ESPN or Fox Sports should be having TOP TIER boxing lineups with multiple titles on the line and HBO has NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT!!!

In the day, a Crawford fight of that magnitude could have only have been PPV. But HBO lost it's marketing prowess along the line somewhere- Right now a cuntish-feminist is in charge of the sports packaging or some cuck of a batty-boy who thinks contact sports should be replaced with soccer or tennis. Cunts!

Merchant should have just sat there and shut his yap and let Floyd be. Shortly after that run in on air with Mayweather where he said he would kick Mayweather's ass, he too was no longer on the air- as well he should have been fired for being a bias asshole.

Also, what Merchant's old ass did not seem to factor in while he was talking SHIT: Showtime, owned by CBS, had just gotten that (and was planning around that) 2013 SuperBowl money to help finance a Floyd multi-fight deal with what it was. SuperBowl 2013 broke records in TV revenue as well as put millions of dollars in side-revenue into CBS's pockets by promoting New Orleans.

Once CBS had that SuperBowl money counted for and counted out, Floyd did what every employee wished they could do when working for a cuntish boss: BITCH, FUCK YOUR JOB! I QUIT! ... and started his own business!

Mayweather and Manny's fight generated $600 MILLION in revenue for Showtime. The single highest grossing one day sport event until the 2016 Super Bowl and Mayweather MORE than paid back what he got paid for with Showtime and CBS.

And, even though HBO's production and output is FAR SUPERIOR to Showtime, Fox, NBC and ESPN, they forgot the core essence of fight fans an what they want to see.

They can come back: FIRE THE CUNTS IN THE FRONT OFFICE and get someone who knows what side the bread is buttered on.

PS: Kellerman is doing a good job as a boxing analyst, by the way. Lampley needs to retire and pass the reigns over.

[Master]

Larry Merchant was right about Floyd.

[ykdadamaja]

Larry Merchant was right about Floyd.

He lost money, though. I'm learning this adult thing- Sometimes being right does not mean it will help you!

[El Kabong]

Larry Merchant was right about Floyd.

He lost money, though. I'm learning this adult thing- Sometimes being right does not mean it will help you!

The fights Floyd could STILL have amaze me. The ones he might have don't intrigue me they would be Globetrotters vs Generals exhibition bouts....he could do it too not even hating.

[greynotsoold]

There was a change in leadership and the new leader didn't see boxing as a priority.

In late 2014, arly 15, HBO was invested in a series focusing on boxing. Specifically on the comeback, from alcoholism, of two former fighters. One had been a world champion, the other had tried twice. Two fighters we're being brought in from out of town to train in LA- a gym in East LA, and at the Wild Card West.

The talk at the time was of a huge commitment to boxing but there was a change in leadership and by August of 15 the whole program was dead. That was the start of the finish.

[Hulk]

RJJ didn't kill boxing on HBOHe was a prodigy, he fought great fighters in his era, he toyed with great fighters in his era, he won titles from middleweight up to a heavyweight title (and he could have done so earlier against Buster Douglas instead of Ruiz which he had planned on but wow Prime RJJ at heavyweight vs Evander Holyfield WHAAAAAAAT would have been crazy). At light heavyweight he ruled supreme and was untouchable until he came back down from heavyweight and from there his career sucks.He missed some big fights, but hell half that wasn't his fault...Benn, Collins, Eubank...I don't think they wanted him. To some those fighters were more concerned with success in the UK rather than worldwide success. Ottke didn't fight outside of Germany, Michalczewski wanted the fight in Europe, Calzaghe wanted to fight in England, and for whatever reason he didn't even dip a toe in the cruiserweight division...Jirov, Toney II. He never got to fight Gerald McClellan who was injured or Watson who was injured.Could RJJ have had those bigger fights...yeah I guess, but hell I can look at anyone's record and see where names are missing.What killed boxing on HBO wasn't Roy at all it was a lack of star power (not great or good or fun to watch fighters, but true STARS), promoters, the rapid rise of UFC and their guerrilla promoting style, and the cards as a whole sucked whereas UFC has worked to build good cards first and superstars second. Boxing doesn't have the stars so now we focus on the cards or we should...and it ain't that other fighters shouldn't be stars like right damn now, but it's that boxing drags behind the time and fans wait until a boxer is finished to lavish them with praise and honors....it's screwy that way.Also Max Kellerman is a douchebag....where's my old school boxing announcers? Papa, Bernstein, hell I'd take Larry fucking Merchant over Max Kellerman (and I was a dude calling for Kellerman to replace Merchant!!!!).....man how wrong I was. Max Kellerman is just God awful at calling a fight now...I dont' know if ESPN has got to him or Lampley has or what but holy shit he sucks now.

Unfortunately, Max is also a libtard these days too.