Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

[Alpha]

I can’t see ranking Crawford ahead of Loma, Mikey Garcia, Errol Spence, and Canelo. He is obviously gifted and has great skill, but he hasn’t beaten the competition those guys have (in my opinion). He hasn’t fought bums or ducked anyone, but I need to see him beat someone on the level of Gamboa, but at his own size. Gamboa wasn’t big enough to last vs Crawford, and I still thought he made Bud look ordinary for the first four rounds or so. Not saying Crawford isn’t a solid fighter, just that I’m not ready to rank him on top until he beats elite level fighters at their best weight.

Hands down better than Canelo. Canelo has maybe proven now to be in the top 10. Loma hasn’t beaten opposition much better than Crawford and neither has Garcia.

Guys like Usyk, Inoue and Wangek need to be included in any P4P conversation.

Agreed. I was just commenting on those fighters that he mentioned

I wasn't singling you out or anything, just commenting that there are roughly 8 guys you could make a case for being #1.

I can’t see ranking Crawford ahead of Loma, Mikey Garcia, Errol Spence, and Canelo. He is obviously gifted and has great skill, but he hasn’t beaten the competition those guys have (in my opinion). He hasn’t fought bums or ducked anyone, but I need to see him beat someone on the level of Gamboa, but at his own size. Gamboa wasn’t big enough to last vs Crawford, and I still thought he made Bud look ordinary for the first four rounds or so. Not saying Crawford isn’t a solid fighter, just that I’m not ready to rank him on top until he beats elite level fighters at their best weight.

Hands down better than Canelo. Canelo has maybe proven now to be in the top 10. Loma hasn’t beaten opposition much better than Crawford and neither has Garcia.

I feel that Nicholas Walters was a great win for Loma, as was Linares. Both of those, in my opinion, are much better than anyone Crawford has beaten (and he looked very impressive in how he beat them also). I thought Canelo lost to GGG both times, but he is hands down much better than anyone Crawford has beaten, while Lara and Trout were solid wins as well (when he fought them). Mikey has the closest class of competition to Crawford, but I slightly prefer his wins over Broner and Robert Easter over Crawford’s biggest wins over Horn and Gamboa.

Add Salido to Mikey's record as well.

[Ron Swanson]

Easy to say when he won’t fight Spence. He had his chance, everyone was waiting to hear “I want Errol Spence” and he chose the cop out of I fight who I’m told to fight. Spence is out there “I see no smoke, I need a fight” in direct response to that cop out. Really disappointed by Crawford right now. Really disappointed by everyone around 147 dodging Spence.

A bit harsh, IMO.

1. He just got to 147. Two fights at welter does not constitute a wealth of experience there.

2. There are plenty of 147-pounders who have been there for awhile who ARE ducking Spence, and should have first dibs. The Spence-Crawford showdown will occur in due time. We fans are a desperate lot.

3. Even Spence should be calling out his fellow 147-pounders and let the spectre of that showdown grow.

4. Crawford fought top-notch opposition during his reign at 140. Why accuse him of ducking Spence as soon as he puts his foot in at 147, or assume he's not gonna want to face him?

A bit harsh, IMO.

Ron, you get carried away with the "He said, She said" nonsense . So he never mentioned Spence, that automatically means he's ducking him , right ? Even if he had turned around and spat Spence's name down the microphone with venom, that doesn't necessarily have any bearing on whether the fight can get made. there's a whole load of other obstacles and politics to overcome, and I know that you're not naïve and you already know that.
Do you honestly believe that as many Boxers as you state are cowards and duck other guys? Sometimes , it may be the case , but more often than not, the very nature of top class Boxers invariably means that they wouldn't run scared of another fighter.
Like I said before, I think Spence Beats Crawford, but I don't think Crawford is ducking or would duck him.

Crawford has never given me a reason to think of him as a ducker. He has fought anybody in his path. Unfortunately, he hasn’t had any elite fighters on his path so far, but he can only do so much. I don’t see anybody calling out Crawford. He is top 3 p4p on basically any list you will see. Other welters should be asking to fight him. Not the other way around.

Ron never likes to present the full story.

Spence was the one saying awhile back that the different networks and promoters would be obstacles and he appeared more interested in Porter.

Arum has come out saying he wants to make the Spence fight next.

We all know how the behind the scenes stuff works in this business, and we all get disappointed when fights we want made don't eventuate at the time we want, but all this ducking talk is nonsense.

Everyone was waiting to hear “I want Errol Spence”, nah all I'm waiting to hear is "the fight is official", all the talk outside the ring is irrelevant.

Exactly right that it’s nonsense, because I never said Crawford was ducking Spence. I said everyone was dodging Spence. “I see NO smoke, I need a fight”. That is about EVERYONE. But you folks go ahead and change what was said, I’m used to it. Bo Mac said they want Spence, Arum said they want Spence, if Crawford says he wants Spence we have something. For all your talk of me misrepresenting, does anyone care to directly contradict the point, does anyone want to put their name to a statement that they will negotiate with Spence? I bet not because everyone here knows they won’t.

If Spence becomes a PPV fighter they will. But Spence can’t become a PPV fighter until one of these top guys actually fights him.

[Alpha]

Easy to say when he won’t fight Spence. He had his chance, everyone was waiting to hear “I want Errol Spence” and he chose the cop out of I fight who I’m told to fight. Spence is out there “I see no smoke, I need a fight” in direct response to that cop out. Really disappointed by Crawford right now. Really disappointed by everyone around 147 dodging Spence.

A bit harsh, IMO.

1. He just got to 147. Two fights at welter does not constitute a wealth of experience there.

2. There are plenty of 147-pounders who have been there for awhile who ARE ducking Spence, and should have first dibs. The Spence-Crawford showdown will occur in due time. We fans are a desperate lot.

3. Even Spence should be calling out his fellow 147-pounders and let the spectre of that showdown grow.

4. Crawford fought top-notch opposition during his reign at 140. Why accuse him of ducking Spence as soon as he puts his foot in at 147, or assume he's not gonna want to face him?

A bit harsh, IMO.

Ron, you get carried away with the "He said, She said" nonsense . So he never mentioned Spence, that automatically means he's ducking him , right ? Even if he had turned around and spat Spence's name down the microphone with venom, that doesn't necessarily have any bearing on whether the fight can get made. there's a whole load of other obstacles and politics to overcome, and I know that you're not naïve and you already know that.
Do you honestly believe that as many Boxers as you state are cowards and duck other guys? Sometimes , it may be the case , but more often than not, the very nature of top class Boxers invariably means that they wouldn't run scared of another fighter.
Like I said before, I think Spence Beats Crawford, but I don't think Crawford is ducking or would duck him.

Crawford has never given me a reason to think of him as a ducker. He has fought anybody in his path. Unfortunately, he hasn’t had any elite fighters on his path so far, but he can only do so much. I don’t see anybody calling out Crawford. He is top 3 p4p on basically any list you will see. Other welters should be asking to fight him. Not the other way around.

Ron never likes to present the full story.

Spence was the one saying awhile back that the different networks and promoters would be obstacles and he appeared more interested in Porter.

Arum has come out saying he wants to make the Spence fight next.

We all know how the behind the scenes stuff works in this business, and we all get disappointed when fights we want made don't eventuate at the time we want, but all this ducking talk is nonsense.

Everyone was waiting to hear “I want Errol Spence”, nah all I'm waiting to hear is "the fight is official", all the talk outside the ring is irrelevant.

Exactly right that it’s nonsense, because I never said Crawford was ducking Spence. I said everyone was dodging Spence. “I see NO smoke, I need a fight”. That is about EVERYONE. But you folks go ahead and change what was said, I’m used to it. Bo Mac said they want Spence, Arum said they want Spence, if Crawford says he wants Spence we have something. For all your talk of me misrepresenting, does anyone care to directly contradict the point, does anyone want to put their name to a statement that they will negotiate with Spence? I bet not because everyone here knows they won’t.

If Spence becomes a PPV fighter they will. But Spence can’t become a PPV fighter until one of these top guys actually fights him.

You said he won't fight Spence, not sure what you wanted us to take from that? Ducking, dodging avoiding, whatever you want to call it is false.

So where are the offers and negotiations from Spence and Haymon? Crawford said he wants everyone, Spence is included in that statement. You want him to go through and name each fighter individually? That's on you. Spence isn't the only welter, if Thurman ever gets his tune ups in, I personally would much prefer that fight for Crawford over Spence. Arum has said he would like to make the Spence fight next. I'm sure both guys want the fight. Blaming one side or the other at this stage is getting a little ahead of ourselves. Also getting hung up on all this outside the ring crap is beyond me, when currently we have so many good fights, almost every weekend. Who cares about who's not fighting who, and give our attention to the fights that are actually happening.

[powerpuncher]

I can’t see ranking Crawford ahead of Loma, Mikey Garcia, Errol Spence, and Canelo. He is obviously gifted and has great skill, but he hasn’t beaten the competition those guys have (in my opinion). He hasn’t fought bums or ducked anyone, but I need to see him beat someone on the level of Gamboa, but at his own size. Gamboa wasn’t big enough to last vs Crawford, and I still thought he made Bud look ordinary for the first four rounds or so. Not saying Crawford isn’t a solid fighter, just that I’m not ready to rank him on top until he beats elite level fighters at their best weight.

Hands down better than Canelo. Canelo has maybe proven now to be in the top 10. Loma hasn’t beaten opposition much better than Crawford and neither has Garcia.

I feel that Nicholas Walters was a great win for Loma, as was Linares. Both of those, in my opinion, are much better than anyone Crawford has beaten (and he looked very impressive in how he beat them also). I thought Canelo lost to GGG both times, but he is hands down much better than anyone Crawford has beaten, while Lara and Trout were solid wins as well (when he fought them). Mikey has the closest class of competition to Crawford, but I slightly prefer his wins over Broner and Robert Easter over Crawford’s biggest wins over Horn and Gamboa.

I’m not a huge fan of picking apart people’s records because I don’t want to take away accomplishments. So I will just repeat and say that Loma and Garcia don’t have anybody I would consider elite on their resume either that is a career defining win.

Agreed that Canelo has fought a few good fighters, but he also should have lost to GGG twice (clearly) and I thought he lost to Trout. Many also thought he lost to Lara. Using the eye test though, Canelo is nowhere near as good of a fighter as Crawford.

[Ron Swanson]

Easy to say when he won’t fight Spence. He had his chance, everyone was waiting to hear “I want Errol Spence” and he chose the cop out of I fight who I’m told to fight. Spence is out there “I see no smoke, I need a fight” in direct response to that cop out. Really disappointed by Crawford right now. Really disappointed by everyone around 147 dodging Spence.

A bit harsh, IMO.

1. He just got to 147. Two fights at welter does not constitute a wealth of experience there.

2. There are plenty of 147-pounders who have been there for awhile who ARE ducking Spence, and should have first dibs. The Spence-Crawford showdown will occur in due time. We fans are a desperate lot.

3. Even Spence should be calling out his fellow 147-pounders and let the spectre of that showdown grow.

4. Crawford fought top-notch opposition during his reign at 140. Why accuse him of ducking Spence as soon as he puts his foot in at 147, or assume he's not gonna want to face him?

A bit harsh, IMO.

Ron, you get carried away with the "He said, She said" nonsense . So he never mentioned Spence, that automatically means he's ducking him , right ? Even if he had turned around and spat Spence's name down the microphone with venom, that doesn't necessarily have any bearing on whether the fight can get made. there's a whole load of other obstacles and politics to overcome, and I know that you're not naïve and you already know that.
Do you honestly believe that as many Boxers as you state are cowards and duck other guys? Sometimes , it may be the case , but more often than not, the very nature of top class Boxers invariably means that they wouldn't run scared of another fighter.
Like I said before, I think Spence Beats Crawford, but I don't think Crawford is ducking or would duck him.

Crawford has never given me a reason to think of him as a ducker. He has fought anybody in his path. Unfortunately, he hasn’t had any elite fighters on his path so far, but he can only do so much. I don’t see anybody calling out Crawford. He is top 3 p4p on basically any list you will see. Other welters should be asking to fight him. Not the other way around.

Ron never likes to present the full story.

Spence was the one saying awhile back that the different networks and promoters would be obstacles and he appeared more interested in Porter.

Arum has come out saying he wants to make the Spence fight next.

We all know how the behind the scenes stuff works in this business, and we all get disappointed when fights we want made don't eventuate at the time we want, but all this ducking talk is nonsense.

Everyone was waiting to hear “I want Errol Spence”, nah all I'm waiting to hear is "the fight is official", all the talk outside the ring is irrelevant.

Exactly right that it’s nonsense, because I never said Crawford was ducking Spence. I said everyone was dodging Spence. “I see NO smoke, I need a fight”. That is about EVERYONE. But you folks go ahead and change what was said, I’m used to it. Bo Mac said they want Spence, Arum said they want Spence, if Crawford says he wants Spence we have something. For all your talk of me misrepresenting, does anyone care to directly contradict the point, does anyone want to put their name to a statement that they will negotiate with Spence? I bet not because everyone here knows they won’t.

If Spence becomes a PPV fighter they will. But Spence can’t become a PPV fighter until one of these top guys actually fights him.

You said he won't fight Spence, not sure what you wanted us to take from that? Ducking, dodging avoiding, whatever you want to call it is false.

So where are the offers and negotiations from Spence and Haymon? Crawford said he wants everyone, Spence is included in that statement. You want him to go through and name each fighter individually? That's on you. Spence isn't the only welter, if Thurman ever gets his tune ups in, I personally would much prefer that fight for Crawford over Spence. Arum has said he would like to make the Spence fight next. I'm sure both guys want the fight. Blaming one side or the other at this stage is getting a little ahead of ourselves. Also getting hung up on all this outside the ring crap is beyond me, when currently we have so many good fights, almost every weekend. Who cares about who's not fighting who, and give our attention to the fights that are actually happening.

When I said he won’t fight Spence I meant now. And he won’t, he will fight Kavaliauskas or I think his name is Besputin. The thread is about Crawford being the best, my point is that’s easy to say when he isn’t fighting Spence and he isn’t. I like Crawford, so I want him to take his biggest fight. We all know what that is. I don’t think he will avoid him forever. He’ll make the fight when it’s PPV, good business. But it doesn’t prove he’s the best. Fighting Spence proves that. Of course I only present one side, the thread isn’t Spence is best. If the thread was Spence is best it would be equally one sided as I would say easy to say while he fights the likes of Ocampo, but it’s not proven.

[Ron Swanson]

Also, I don’t have to speak about Spence’s offer to Crawford because Bob admitted he isn’t interested while saying they want it. It’s like people don’t actually pay attention to what Bob actually says. He says he wants to negotiate but he wants it fair to all networks. That is a huge roadblock. Negotiation stops before it starts. There is no fair negotiation between ESPN and Showtime/Fox because ESPN(Arum/Crawford) don’t have the budget to compete with Showtime/Fox(Haymon/Spence). If Arum really wanted the fight he would say they will negotiate with whoever will pay the most. That is so obviously how it should be done. When you aren’t willing to do it how it should be done you aren’t willing to do it. The rest is lip service and misdirection. Not sure how many times Arum needs to lie before people understand he’s a liar.

[TitoFan]

TBH Ron, I'm not ready to say Crawford is the best at this moment. Great win over Benavidez, which raises his stock in the p4p list, but too many other great fighters out there to make that call right now. Like the others, I just feel it's unfair to say Crawford is ducking Spence.... in my case because he just basically got to 147 and there's some good welters out there who should be lining up to fight Spence. Arum can say whatever he wants, but none of that should be put on the fighter. He answered the question correctly, IMO. When the time comes to call out Spence, he'll do it, or the other way around. And the fight will happen. What puzzles me is how Spence is being portrayed as an avoided monster off what is arguably a lesser resume than some of the other guys mentioned. Peterson and Brook are the names that stick out, and Brook had had his eye socket broken by GGG in the previous fight. I'm willing to cut Crawford a break until he shows me he's actually ducking somebody. From the list of guys mentioned in another post, I only know of one blatant ducker, but I'll abstain from that topic also.

[Ron Swanson]

Again, I’m not saying he is ducking him. I’m saying in a thread about Crawford being the best it’s easy to say but it’s hollow until he fights Spence.

I like Crawford. I’m not insulting him. I’m saying to show he is the best he needs Spence. This should not even be an argument it should be so clear.

I don’t doubt for a second Crawford is willing to fight Spence.

[Alpha]

Also, I don’t have to speak about Spence’s offer to Crawford because Bob admitted he isn’t interested while saying they want it. It’s like people don’t actually pay attention to what Bob actually says. He says he wants to negotiate but he wants it fair to all networks. That is a huge roadblock. Negotiation stops before it starts. There is no fair negotiation between ESPN and Showtime/Fox because ESPN(Arum/Crawford) don’t have the budget to compete with Showtime/Fox(Haymon/Spence). If Arum really wanted the fight he would say they will negotiate with whoever will pay the most. That is so obviously how it should be done. When you aren’t willing to do it how it should be done you aren’t willing to do it. The rest is lip service and misdirection. Not sure how many times Arum needs to lie before people understand he’s a liar.

You did the same song and dance about Loma vs Linares, and at the end of the day it got done.

Any boxing fan should know that talk is cheap. Paying attention to what anyone says outside the ring is pointless. What happens in the ring once the bell rings is all that matters.

In saying that at least Arum has presented some options, joint PPV, sharing fighters etc. What has team Spence/ Haymon/ PBC/ Showtime/ Fox mentioned so far?

You did say that Crawford isn't fighting Spence, which is true, newsflash: Spence ain't fighting Crawford either. Kind of makes the statement redundant.

Agree they will fight when the time is right, but like others have mentioned, Spence's record is far from stellar. If Thurman is still around, then he, in my opinion is the man to beat.

Haymon has most of the top guys at 147, so if anyone's to blame for Spence not getting the right fights, it's him.

If things go the norm, Spence will end up fighting Ugas. Crawford will fight his mando and things will go round and round until at least 2020. I hope I'm wrong and we can get this fight towards the end of next year.

[smashup]

Crawford should come and fight in the UK, put on a masterclass and raise his profile globally.
Same with Lomachenko.

[Primo Carnera]

Also, I don’t have to speak about Spence’s offer to Crawford because Bob admitted he isn’t interested while saying they want it. It’s like people don’t actually pay attention to what Bob actually says. He says he wants to negotiate but he wants it fair to all networks. That is a huge roadblock. Negotiation stops before it starts. There is no fair negotiation between ESPN and Showtime/Fox because ESPN(Arum/Crawford) don’t have the budget to compete with Showtime/Fox(Haymon/Spence). If Arum really wanted the fight he would say they will negotiate with whoever will pay the most. That is so obviously how it should be done. When you aren’t willing to do it how it should be done you aren’t willing to do it. The rest is lip service and misdirection. Not sure how many times Arum needs to lie before people understand he’s a liar.

and this is exactly why people come back at you . you half say something with a veiled criticism and then turn around and say "oh , I like him, I just want the fight made."
And then you go to and fro so much that you send out mixed messages as above.

[ykdadamaja]

Good contributions to this thread. But let us look at it in a Floyd Mayweather perspective- He had a HUGE gap in elite fighters after he fought Chico Corrales (RIP) and Oscar DLH- It wasn't until he beat Oscar that he was truly considered the best, and it was semi-best until Manny Pac lost to Morales and even then they still had Manny as a better fighter.

To me, if I had any sense, Floyd should have been ranked in the top spot over Mosely and Hopkins AND RJJ, ranked 1, 2 and 3 respectively, to be honest. But, such is life...

[El Kabong]

Good contributions to this thread. But let us look at it in a Floyd Mayweather perspective- He had a HUGE gap in elite fighters after he fought Chico Corrales (RIP) and Oscar DLH- It wasn't until he beat Oscar that he was truly considered the best, and it was semi-best until Manny Pac lost to Morales and even then they still had Manny as a better fighter.

To me, if I had any sense, Floyd should have been ranked in the top spot over Mosely and Hopkins AND RJJ, ranked 1, 2 and 3 respectively, to be honest. But, such is life...

I think the first fight vs Jose Luis Castillo hurt Floyd, but prior to that I was waiting for the guy to make a splash but in order to do that you've got to string fights together which are high profile. Had he EASILY handled JLC then he would have been there. That 1 fight placed doubts in a lot of people's minds, he certainly redeemed himself in the rematch even if he didn't stop him but after that who did he gun for? There were plenty of stud young fighters ready to go and I know he had title defenses to make so I understand "you can't fight them all" but to go from Augustus, Corrales, El Famoso, Jesus Chavez, JLC, JLC II to Sosa, Ndou, Corley, Bruseles, Gatti, Mitchell and then Zab Judah coming off of a loss....he didn't even get back on track until he fought Baldomir and although Baldomir deserved the fight for beating Zab and Gatti he was not going to test Floyd.


Where's Margarito? Where's Cotto at 140 or 147 (in that time frame)? Where's Williams? Where's Hatton at 140? Where was Acelino Freitas? Where are these guys?


Floyd is a great fighter, but he never threw caution to the wind and tossed himself willingly into the lion's den....smart on his part, but hell I guess better to leave the fans wanting more....although I don't want another bullshit exhibition bout like he had vs Conor, he could make money just doing those to be honest, but try and tell the boxing world that's a real fight...0-0-0 vs 49-0-0 ...yeah HORSE SHIT.



Oh and just so nobody misunderstands, I did LOVE that Floyd gave Gatti the opportunity, that was a real life Rocky moment. Floyd the Apollo Creed to Gatti's Rocky, only there was no storybook ending for Arturo RIP. Arturo had a dramatic career, up and down, up and down, it was nice that a throwback fighter like him got a chance to shine in the spotlight. Floyd was simply too good for any version of Arturo.

[Alpha]

Good contributions to this thread. But let us look at it in a Floyd Mayweather perspective- He had a HUGE gap in elite fighters after he fought Chico Corrales (RIP) and Oscar DLH- It wasn't until he beat Oscar that he was truly considered the best, and it was semi-best until Manny Pac lost to Morales and even then they still had Manny as a better fighter.

To me, if I had any sense, Floyd should have been ranked in the top spot over Mosely and Hopkins AND RJJ, ranked 1, 2 and 3 respectively, to be honest. But, such is life...

I think the first fight vs Jose Luis Castillo hurt Floyd, but prior to that I was waiting for the guy to make a splash but in order to do that you've got to string fights together which are high profile. Had he EASILY handled JLC then he would have been there. That 1 fight placed doubts in a lot of people's minds, he certainly redeemed himself in the rematch even if he didn't stop him but after that who did he gun for? There were plenty of stud young fighters ready to go and I know he had title defenses to make so I understand "you can't fight them all" but to go from Augustus, Corrales, El Famoso, Jesus Chavez, JLC, JLC II to Sosa, Ndou, Corley, Bruseles, Gatti, Mitchell and then Zab Judah coming off of a loss....he didn't even get back on track until he fought Baldomir and although Baldomir deserved the fight for beating Zab and Gatti he was not going to test Floyd.


Where's Margarito? Where's Cotto at 140 or 147 (in that time frame)? Where's Williams? Where's Hatton at 140? Where was Acelino Freitas? Where are these guys?


Floyd is a great fighter, but he never threw caution to the wind and tossed himself willingly into the lion's den....smart on his part, but hell I guess better to leave the fans wanting more....although I don't want another bullshit exhibition bout like he had vs Conor, he could make money just doing those to be honest, but try and tell the boxing world that's a real fight...0-0-0 vs 49-0-0 ...yeah HORSE SHIT.



Oh and just so nobody misunderstands, I did LOVE that Floyd gave Gatti the opportunity, that was a real life Rocky moment. Floyd the Apollo Creed to Gatti's Rocky, only there was no storybook ending for Arturo RIP. Arturo had a dramatic career, up and down, up and down, it was nice that a throwback fighter like him got a chance to shine in the spotlight. Floyd was simply too good for any version of Arturo.

Agree with this, you forgot Tszyu tho.

[Spicoli]

I'm split. I don't think Crawfords list of opponents matches Loma. But I honestly think Crawford is more diverse with a better arsenal.