Terence Crawford- the best P4P in the sport today!

[Ron Swanson]

For example, who, if anyone, I won’t even say beat. Who thinks Linares could see round 10 against Garcia?

[Alpha]

I wouldn't say Linares got beat by all his "best" opponents, Loma beat him when he was a three weight "world" champion, No. 1 ranked lightweight (The Ring champion), unbeaten for half-a-dozen years and had flirted in-and-out of P4P lists for a decade.

Walter's was regarded the no.1 featherweight (The Ring), unbeaten, had sparkos over former elites and was robbed - with a draw - against a man who was "robbed" against Gamboa.

Postol and Gamboa are good fighters but what makes them better on paper than Rigo, Russell Jr, Martinez, Marriaga or Sosa? Loma has a couple of HOFamers on his record inside a dozen fights.

Nobody in their right mind would pick Linares over Garcia so take the thought he was number 1 at LW and discard it because it’s simply not true.

Exactly, Garcia was still the WBC lightweight champ, so had to be considered among the 135 pound ratings. Just like Canelo will still be considered among the 160 rankings, unless he states he is permanently moving up or doesn't fight at 160 for over a year.

It's also the reason Wlad was never lineal champ, because Vitali was still WBC champ and no would have rated Povetkin or Chagaev above Vitali.

Also I think the initial statement was that Postol and co were on par with guys on Loma's record, trying to make out that Marriaga, Sosa and Martinez are better wins than Benavidez, Horn, Indongo, Diaz, Molina, Postol, Dulorme, Beltran, Gamboa and Burns is a deception and not seeing them on par at least presents a clear bias.

Rigo may get into the HOF but it won't be for anything he did at 130. I would be surprised if Linares gets into the hall.

[Ron Swanson]

I wouldn't say Linares got beat by all his "best" opponents, Loma beat him when he was a three weight "world" champion, No. 1 ranked lightweight (The Ring champion), unbeaten for half-a-dozen years and had flirted in-and-out of P4P lists for a decade.

Walter's was regarded the no.1 featherweight (The Ring), unbeaten, had sparkos over former elites and was robbed - with a draw - against a man who was "robbed" against Gamboa.

Postol and Gamboa are good fighters but what makes them better on paper than Rigo, Russell Jr, Martinez, Marriaga or Sosa? Loma has a couple of HOFamers on his record inside a dozen fights.

Nobody in their right mind would pick Linares over Garcia so take the thought he was number 1 at LW and discard it because it’s simply not true.

Exactly, Garcia was still the WBC lightweight champ, so had to be considered among the 135 pound ratings. Just like Canelo will still be considered among the 160 rankings, unless he states he is permanently moving up or doesn't fight at 160 for over a year.

It's also the reason Wlad was never lineal champ, because Vitali was still WBC champ and no would have rated Povetkin or Chagaev above Vitali.

Also I think the initial statement was that Postol and co were on par with guys on Loma's record, trying to make out that Marriaga, Sosa and Martinez are better wins than Benavidez, Horn, Indongo, Diaz, Molina, Postol, Dulorme, Beltran, Gamboa and Burns is a deception and not seeing them on par at least presents a clear bias.

Rigo may get into the HOF but it won't be for anything he did at 130. I would be surprised if Linares gets into the hall.

Loma has a guy available to prove his spot, same age, same weight, Garcia.

Crawford has a chance to prove his spot with the younger Spence.

Inoue will continue to be “hey, do you all see what I’m doing? It’s insane”

[Alpha]

I wouldn't say Linares got beat by all his "best" opponents, Loma beat him when he was a three weight "world" champion, No. 1 ranked lightweight (The Ring champion), unbeaten for half-a-dozen years and had flirted in-and-out of P4P lists for a decade.

Walter's was regarded the no.1 featherweight (The Ring), unbeaten, had sparkos over former elites and was robbed - with a draw - against a man who was "robbed" against Gamboa.

Postol and Gamboa are good fighters but what makes them better on paper than Rigo, Russell Jr, Martinez, Marriaga or Sosa? Loma has a couple of HOFamers on his record inside a dozen fights.

Nobody in their right mind would pick Linares over Garcia so take the thought he was number 1 at LW and discard it because it’s simply not true.

Exactly, Garcia was still the WBC lightweight champ, so had to be considered among the 135 pound ratings. Just like Canelo will still be considered among the 160 rankings, unless he states he is permanently moving up or doesn't fight at 160 for over a year.

It's also the reason Wlad was never lineal champ, because Vitali was still WBC champ and no would have rated Povetkin or Chagaev above Vitali.

Also I think the initial statement was that Postol and co were on par with guys on Loma's record, trying to make out that Marriaga, Sosa and Martinez are better wins than Benavidez, Horn, Indongo, Diaz, Molina, Postol, Dulorme, Beltran, Gamboa and Burns is a deception and not seeing them on par at least presents a clear bias.

Rigo may get into the HOF but it won't be for anything he did at 130. I would be surprised if Linares gets into the hall.

Loma has a guy available to prove his spot, same age, same weight, Garcia.

Crawford has a chance to prove his spot with the younger Spence.

Inoue will continue to be “hey, do you all see what I’m doing? It’s insane”

Don't forget Usyk, or the 140 guys, or even the 115 guys. 108 fighters are also fighting each other regularly.

[Ron Swanson]

I wouldn't say Linares got beat by all his "best" opponents, Loma beat him when he was a three weight "world" champion, No. 1 ranked lightweight (The Ring champion), unbeaten for half-a-dozen years and had flirted in-and-out of P4P lists for a decade.

Walter's was regarded the no.1 featherweight (The Ring), unbeaten, had sparkos over former elites and was robbed - with a draw - against a man who was "robbed" against Gamboa.

Postol and Gamboa are good fighters but what makes them better on paper than Rigo, Russell Jr, Martinez, Marriaga or Sosa? Loma has a couple of HOFamers on his record inside a dozen fights.

Nobody in their right mind would pick Linares over Garcia so take the thought he was number 1 at LW and discard it because it’s simply not true.

Exactly, Garcia was still the WBC lightweight champ, so had to be considered among the 135 pound ratings. Just like Canelo will still be considered among the 160 rankings, unless he states he is permanently moving up or doesn't fight at 160 for over a year.

It's also the reason Wlad was never lineal champ, because Vitali was still WBC champ and no would have rated Povetkin or Chagaev above Vitali.

Also I think the initial statement was that Postol and co were on par with guys on Loma's record, trying to make out that Marriaga, Sosa and Martinez are better wins than Benavidez, Horn, Indongo, Diaz, Molina, Postol, Dulorme, Beltran, Gamboa and Burns is a deception and not seeing them on par at least presents a clear bias.

Rigo may get into the HOF but it won't be for anything he did at 130. I would be surprised if Linares gets into the hall.

Loma has a guy available to prove his spot, same age, same weight, Garcia.

Crawford has a chance to prove his spot with the younger Spence.

Inoue will continue to be “hey, do you all see what I’m doing? It’s insane”

Don't forget Usyk, or the 140 guys, or even the 115 guys. 108 fighters are also fighting each other regularly.

Oh I’ve been on Usyk since the amateurs. I love what he’s done but in P4P terms I tend to favor guys that have success in multiple weight classes. It’s not fair, but it’s how I see it. I mean, think of what Crawford would do if he was still at 135, he would murder Garcia and Loma. But that’s because he’s both really good and bigger. So to me moving up is how you show you are special, showing you don’t have to be bigger. Same reason I have Crawford over Spence P4P even though I would(with much hesitation) pick Spence H2H.

A little more time and a few more quality opponents and I have to look past the single weight class though.

[Alpha]

I wouldn't say Linares got beat by all his "best" opponents, Loma beat him when he was a three weight "world" champion, No. 1 ranked lightweight (The Ring champion), unbeaten for half-a-dozen years and had flirted in-and-out of P4P lists for a decade.

Walter's was regarded the no.1 featherweight (The Ring), unbeaten, had sparkos over former elites and was robbed - with a draw - against a man who was "robbed" against Gamboa.

Postol and Gamboa are good fighters but what makes them better on paper than Rigo, Russell Jr, Martinez, Marriaga or Sosa? Loma has a couple of HOFamers on his record inside a dozen fights.

Nobody in their right mind would pick Linares over Garcia so take the thought he was number 1 at LW and discard it because it’s simply not true.

Exactly, Garcia was still the WBC lightweight champ, so had to be considered among the 135 pound ratings. Just like Canelo will still be considered among the 160 rankings, unless he states he is permanently moving up or doesn't fight at 160 for over a year.

It's also the reason Wlad was never lineal champ, because Vitali was still WBC champ and no would have rated Povetkin or Chagaev above Vitali.

Also I think the initial statement was that Postol and co were on par with guys on Loma's record, trying to make out that Marriaga, Sosa and Martinez are better wins than Benavidez, Horn, Indongo, Diaz, Molina, Postol, Dulorme, Beltran, Gamboa and Burns is a deception and not seeing them on par at least presents a clear bias.

Rigo may get into the HOF but it won't be for anything he did at 130. I would be surprised if Linares gets into the hall.

Loma has a guy available to prove his spot, same age, same weight, Garcia.

Crawford has a chance to prove his spot with the younger Spence.

Inoue will continue to be “hey, do you all see what I’m doing? It’s insane”

Don't forget Usyk, or the 140 guys, or even the 115 guys. 108 fighters are also fighting each other regularly.

Oh I’ve been on Usyk since the amateurs. I love what he’s done but in P4P terms I tend to favor guys that have success in multiple weight classes. It’s not fair, but it’s how I see it. I mean, think of what Crawford would do if he was still at 135, he would murder Garcia and Loma. But that’s because he’s both really good and bigger. So to me moving up is how you show you are special, showing you don’t have to be bigger. Same reason I have Crawford over Spence P4P even though I would(with much hesitation) pick Spence H2H.

A little more time and a few more quality opponents and I have to look past the single weight class though.

Not disagreeing with how you view P4P but that could go both ways. Example: what Crawford would do if he was still at 135? Could he make 135 and it not affect his ability? If Crawford had to boil down to 135 today, I'd say Garcia and Loma probably stop him.

Multiple weights don't mean as much to me, unless a guy is taking on the best as he steps up. Take Lipinets at 140 for Mikey or Martinez, Walters or Sosa at 130 for Loma. Usyk took out both Briedis and Gassiev. On opposition alone Usyk is in the debate.

[Fenster]

I wouldn't say Linares got beat by all his "best" opponents, Loma beat him when he was a three weight "world" champion, No. 1 ranked lightweight (The Ring champion), unbeaten for half-a-dozen years and had flirted in-and-out of P4P lists for a decade.

Walter's was regarded the no.1 featherweight (The Ring), unbeaten, had sparkos over former elites and was robbed - with a draw - against a man who was "robbed" against Gamboa.

Postol and Gamboa are good fighters but what makes them better on paper than Rigo, Russell Jr, Martinez, Marriaga or Sosa? Loma has a couple of HOFamers on his record inside a dozen fights.

Nobody in their right mind would pick Linares over Garcia so take the thought he was number 1 at LW and discard it because it’s simply not true.

OK he was no.2 at lightweight and everything I said still stands. Crawford doesn't have better wins.

[Fenster]

I didn’t even imply they were better, just that it’s easy to chalk them up to being as good. Linares truly had lost to the best guys he fought before loma, that’s pretty hard to argue imo.
I’m not about to say that lomanchenko isn’t great or that the guys he fought so soon into his career isn’t, that wasn’t the point.

Yeah and i'm just saying in my opinion Loma's opp is superior and it's pretty clear.

[Alpha]

I didn’t even imply they were better, just that it’s easy to chalk them up to being as good. Linares truly had lost to the best guys he fought before loma, that’s pretty hard to argue imo.
I’m not about to say that lomanchenko isn’t great or that the guys he fought so soon into his career isn’t, that wasn’t the point.

Yeah and i'm just saying in my opinion Loma's opp is superior and it's pretty clear.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Loma and Usyk's records and comparisons.

What do you consider Loma's 3 best wins?

[Fenster]

I didn’t even imply they were better, just that it’s easy to chalk them up to being as good. Linares truly had lost to the best guys he fought before loma, that’s pretty hard to argue imo.
I’m not about to say that lomanchenko isn’t great or that the guys he fought so soon into his career isn’t, that wasn’t the point.

Yeah and i'm just saying in my opinion Loma's opp is superior and it's pretty clear.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Loma and Usyk's records and comparisons.

What do you consider Loma's 3 best wins?

You're accussing me of "bias" and "deception" for offering a blase opinion about who is best in a MYTHICAL sense? What? Since when have I ever "ignored" Loma's loss to Salido?

Mikey had ONE FIGHT at 135 against Zlaticanin, your precious WBC belt was the one stripped from Linares. Linares went unbeaten for SIX YEARS at 135 picking up the WBC, WBA and RING belt along the way.

And yet I still conceded to you guys Mikey was no.1 because YOU KNOW Mikey kills Linares. YOU KNOW who wins before fighters even meet.

"Bias, lies and deception" in a silly fantasy scenario based solely on ones personal preference!!! Laughable.

[Alpha]

I didn’t even imply they were better, just that it’s easy to chalk them up to being as good. Linares truly had lost to the best guys he fought before loma, that’s pretty hard to argue imo.
I’m not about to say that lomanchenko isn’t great or that the guys he fought so soon into his career isn’t, that wasn’t the point.

Yeah and i'm just saying in my opinion Loma's opp is superior and it's pretty clear.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Loma and Usyk's records and comparisons.

What do you consider Loma's 3 best wins?

You're accussing me of "bias" and "deception" for offering a blase opinion about who is best in a MYTHICAL sense? What? Since when have I ever "ignored" Loma's loss to Salido?

Mikey had ONE FIGHT at 135 against Zlaticanin, your precious WBC belt was the one stripped from Linares. Linares went unbeaten for SIX YEARS at 135 picking up the WBC, WBA and RING belt along the way.

And yet I still conceded to you guys Mikey was no.1 because YOU KNOW Mikey kills Linares. YOU KNOW who wins before fighters even meet.

"Bias, lies and deception" in a silly fantasy scenario based solely on ones personal preference!!! Laughable.

Hold fire, comparing opposition is not mythical, P4P is. With opposition there is more to go on. I'm just trying to understand why you rate Loma's record so highly, when compared to others in that group it's all pretty even. I know your a Loma fan, so am I. But his record is far from a murderers row.

Linares was facing weak opposition over that time, after being stopped twice by guys who I don't think many would have considered top 10 going in.

Mikey may beat Linares, but that's not what I said, I said Garcia was #1.

[Fenster]

I didn’t even imply they were better, just that it’s easy to chalk them up to being as good. Linares truly had lost to the best guys he fought before loma, that’s pretty hard to argue imo.
I’m not about to say that lomanchenko isn’t great or that the guys he fought so soon into his career isn’t, that wasn’t the point.

Yeah and i'm just saying in my opinion Loma's opp is superior and it's pretty clear.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Loma and Usyk's records and comparisons.

What do you consider Loma's 3 best wins?

You're accussing me of "bias" and "deception" for offering a blase opinion about who is best in a MYTHICAL sense? What? Since when have I ever "ignored" Loma's loss to Salido?

Mikey had ONE FIGHT at 135 against Zlaticanin, your precious WBC belt was the one stripped from Linares. Linares went unbeaten for SIX YEARS at 135 picking up the WBC, WBA and RING belt along the way.

And yet I still conceded to you guys Mikey was no.1 because YOU KNOW Mikey kills Linares. YOU KNOW who wins before fighters even meet.

"Bias, lies and deception" in a silly fantasy scenario based solely on ones personal preference!!! Laughable.

Hold fire, comparing opposition is not mythical, P4P is. With opposition there is more to go on. I'm just trying to understand why you rate Loma's record so highly, when compared to others in that group it's all pretty even. I know your a Loma fan, so am I. But his record is far from a murderers row.

Linares was facing weak opposition over that time, after being stopped twice by guys who I don't think many would have considered top 10 going in.

Mikey may beat Linares, but that's not what I said, I said Garcia was #1.

I don't rate Loma's record so highly I rate it superior to Crawford and Mikey's, then I factor in my own personal preference that Loma is THE best boxer in the world, the best by "my eyes," the most talented, the best single talent to watch.

All rankings are based solely on opinion. Boxing isn't like any other sport as we quite simply don't have enough data/evidence to ever definitively prove one fighter is better than another.

Why was Mikey no.1 at 135? He had ONE fight in the division and that ONE fight wasn't against the no.1 guy.

[p4pking]

That’s all fair enough. They (Loma and Crawford) are pretty hard to compare on the eye test really, I think both are so damn good, and kind of good at the same things but in different ways.

[Alpha]

I didn’t even imply they were better, just that it’s easy to chalk them up to being as good. Linares truly had lost to the best guys he fought before loma, that’s pretty hard to argue imo.
I’m not about to say that lomanchenko isn’t great or that the guys he fought so soon into his career isn’t, that wasn’t the point.

Yeah and i'm just saying in my opinion Loma's opp is superior and it's pretty clear.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Loma and Usyk's records and comparisons.

What do you consider Loma's 3 best wins?

You're accussing me of "bias" and "deception" for offering a blase opinion about who is best in a MYTHICAL sense? What? Since when have I ever "ignored" Loma's loss to Salido?

Mikey had ONE FIGHT at 135 against Zlaticanin, your precious WBC belt was the one stripped from Linares. Linares went unbeaten for SIX YEARS at 135 picking up the WBC, WBA and RING belt along the way.

And yet I still conceded to you guys Mikey was no.1 because YOU KNOW Mikey kills Linares. YOU KNOW who wins before fighters even meet.

"Bias, lies and deception" in a silly fantasy scenario based solely on ones personal preference!!! Laughable.

Hold fire, comparing opposition is not mythical, P4P is. With opposition there is more to go on. I'm just trying to understand why you rate Loma's record so highly, when compared to others in that group it's all pretty even. I know your a Loma fan, so am I. But his record is far from a murderers row.

Linares was facing weak opposition over that time, after being stopped twice by guys who I don't think many would have considered top 10 going in.

Mikey may beat Linares, but that's not what I said, I said Garcia was #1.

I don't rate Loma's record so highly I rate it superior to Crawford and Mikey's, then I factor in my own personal preference that Loma is THE best boxer in the world, the best by "my eyes," the most talented, the best single talent to watch.

All rankings are based solely on opinion. Boxing isn't like any other sport as we quite simply don't have enough data/evidence to ever definitively prove one fighter is better than another.

Why was Mikey no.1 at 135? He had ONE fight in the division and that ONE fight wasn't against the no.1 guy.

Yeah we'll have to agree to disagree on it being superior. The stuff about best boxer and eye test is not in regards to opposition.

How many fights has Loma had at 135? And what #1 guy did Linares beat? Mikey sparked Zlaticanin, who many considered #2 at the time. For me that put Mikey ahead of Linares who had already suffered loses to Thompson and DeMarco and also looked vulnerable against Mitchell.

Loma's record is not even superior to Usyk or Inoue's in my opinion. You could even add Wangek, GGG and Canelo based on the opposition they have fought.

[Fenster]

I didn’t even imply they were better, just that it’s easy to chalk them up to being as good. Linares truly had lost to the best guys he fought before loma, that’s pretty hard to argue imo.
I’m not about to say that lomanchenko isn’t great or that the guys he fought so soon into his career isn’t, that wasn’t the point.

Yeah and i'm just saying in my opinion Loma's opp is superior and it's pretty clear.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Loma and Usyk's records and comparisons.

What do you consider Loma's 3 best wins?

You're accussing me of "bias" and "deception" for offering a blase opinion about who is best in a MYTHICAL sense? What? Since when have I ever "ignored" Loma's loss to Salido?

Mikey had ONE FIGHT at 135 against Zlaticanin, your precious WBC belt was the one stripped from Linares. Linares went unbeaten for SIX YEARS at 135 picking up the WBC, WBA and RING belt along the way.

And yet I still conceded to you guys Mikey was no.1 because YOU KNOW Mikey kills Linares. YOU KNOW who wins before fighters even meet.

"Bias, lies and deception" in a silly fantasy scenario based solely on ones personal preference!!! Laughable.

Hold fire, comparing opposition is not mythical, P4P is. With opposition there is more to go on. I'm just trying to understand why you rate Loma's record so highly, when compared to others in that group it's all pretty even. I know your a Loma fan, so am I. But his record is far from a murderers row.

Linares was facing weak opposition over that time, after being stopped twice by guys who I don't think many would have considered top 10 going in.

Mikey may beat Linares, but that's not what I said, I said Garcia was #1.

I don't rate Loma's record so highly I rate it superior to Crawford and Mikey's, then I factor in my own personal preference that Loma is THE best boxer in the world, the best by "my eyes," the most talented, the best single talent to watch.

All rankings are based solely on opinion. Boxing isn't like any other sport as we quite simply don't have enough data/evidence to ever definitively prove one fighter is better than another.

Why was Mikey no.1 at 135? He had ONE fight in the division and that ONE fight wasn't against the no.1 guy.

Yeah we'll have to agree to disagree on it being superior. The stuff about best boxer and eye test is not in regards to opposition.

How many fights has Loma had at 135? And what #1 guy did Linares beat? Mikey sparked Zlaticanin, who many considered #2 at the time. For me that put Mikey ahead of Linares who had already suffered loses to Thompson and DeMarco and also looked vulnerable against Mitchell.

Loma's record is not even superior to Usyk or Inoue's in my opinion. You could even add Wangek, GGG and Canelo based on the opposition they have fought.

There's no correct way to do P4P.

Who was considered no.1 ahead of Zlaticanin?