Mind the Gap

[Джем Мейс]

[Master]

It was big during Labour government but got worse under Tory austerity, privatising, weakening employment rights, reducing benefits and creating more zero contracts under their reign.

[boyla]

Problem with the UK, is if you don't work your quality of life, at least financially is better than someone who works.

[Джем Мейс]

Problem with the UK, is if you don't work your quality of life, at least financially is better than someone who works.

That is not even true for most people on minimum wage jobs. I agree that anyone working should be taking home more than those who are unemployed but the problem is not the unemployed, it is the poor stagnated wages of the average working person when the disparity between them and those at the very top is indefensibly propped up by the policies of a political class who are intent on keeping it that way. The tax threshold should be higher to encourage working, yes, but very few want to live their life paying off a landlord rather than a mortgage and having the stigma of not being employed.

Anyone can find themselves claiming benefits through no fault of their own. It does not help when the minority are reckless with their choices are are fraudulent but they are the minority and the problem is in the avoidance of tax by the super rich who are trying to normalise people like veterans and the disabled falling through the net and dying whilst that 1% avoid acting responsibly.

[TitoFan]

The design and enforcement of the systems is many times at fault. I can't speak for the UK, but in PR as well as in the US, benefits for the unemployed can sometimes dissuade a person from working depending on that person's pay scale. There's a fine line between working one or two jobs while barely being able to pay your bills... and claiming benefits that may be 5% less in total (or 5% more)... and not having to work. That's where the mentality of the individual kicks in. If the system makes it tough to decide, something's wrong.

[El Kabong]

Stagnant wages? Sounds like a job for masses of immigrants who by making the very lowest wages in England (or the US) will be making the most money they ever have in their lives....which in turn fucks over the folks making relatively low wages already in the UK or US.


It'll be even better once there's robots doing those jobs.....ain't gotta pay them shit and they don't need a break at all.

[Джем Мейс]

Stagnant wages? Sounds like a job for masses of immigrants who by making the very lowest wages in England (or the US) will be making the most money they ever have in their lives....which in turn fucks over the folks making relatively low wages already in the UK or US.


It'll be even better once there's robots doing those jobs.....ain't gotta pay them shit and they don't need a break at all.

Sounds like you are obsessed by immigrants. Your President is the child of Immigrants, the fact that you are White American means your ancestors too were immigrants. Surprisingly though, not everything is the fault of Immigrants.

In the UK, where you don't fucking live, there is no evidence that unskilled migrants suppress wages, even without considering skilled migrants, it is a Tory/Conservative fallacy, an immigration policy based on your and the Tories distaste for 'Low skilled workers'. You are fucked if you want to use logic to excuse your bigotry. You believe in Markets and yet here you are arguing for centralized Government control in another country based on your own disgusting distaste for it. Most immigrants in the UK come from the EU and are far better educated than the Brits. Young, well educated and hard working but you never mention them. One would have to ask themselves why that is? oh and students. I suppose you find them being immigrants disgusting too? Are they an invading army? Or is it the Refugees who will massively increase after Brexit. The EU has the Schengen passport free agreement in places BUT NOT THE UK. WE HAVE BORDER CHECKS. You have been sold a lie because like a hungry Sea Lion you were drooling in anticipation of something so fishy. Then you swallowed it whole. Not a good look.


"..the empirical evidence shows that EU immigration has not had significantly negative effects on average employment, wages or inequality for British people." http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/0...ag-down-wages/

[Джем Мейс]

So Theresa May says there isn’t enough money for doctors, nurses, hospitals, firefighters, so little money that she has had to cut 20,000 frontline police officers, not enough money to help the 400,000 more children in poverty since her government came to power, the 300,000 more pensioners in poverty or the homeless whose numbers have risen by 53% since 2010 …

… BUT SHE’S FOUND ENOUGH OF OUR MONEY TO INCREASE SUBSIDIES FOR GROUSE SHOOTING ESTATES FROM £30 PER HECTARE TO £56 PER HECTARE?

The amount you are now paying for her wealthy mates ‘sport’ has risen from £45m to £84m.

Exceedingly rich people are about to get considerably richer – all willingly paid for by you and me.




But nah...some clueless American tells us it is the fault of the Immigrants it's not it's these fuckers

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2018/...ouse-shooting/

[El Kabong]

Sounds like you are obsessed by immigrants. Your President is the child of Immigrants, the fact that you are White American means your ancestors too were immigrants. Surprisingly though, not everything is the fault of Immigrants.

In the UK, where you don't fucking live, there is no evidence that unskilled migrants suppress wages, even without considering skilled migrants, it is a Tory/Conservative fallacy, an immigration policy based on your and the Tories distaste for 'Low skilled workers'. You are fucked if you want to use logic to excuse your bigotry. You believe in Markets and yet here you are arguing for centralized Government control in another country based on your own disgusting distaste for it. Most immigrants in the UK come from the EU and are far better educated than the Brits. Young, well educated and hard working but you never mention them. One would have to ask themselves why that is? oh and students. I suppose you find them being immigrants disgusting too? Are they an invading army? Or is it the Refugees who will massively increase after Brexit. The EU has the Schengen passport free agreement in places BUT NOT THE UK. WE HAVE BORDER CHECKS. You have been sold a lie because like a hungry Sea Lion you were drooling in anticipation of something so fishy. Then you swallowed it whole. Not a good look.


"..the empirical evidence shows that EU immigration has not had significantly negative effects on average employment, wages or inequality for British people." http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/0...ag-down-wages/

I wouldn't say I'm obsessed BY immigrants at all...what I explained was not so much an immigration issue as it is an economic issue. It's supply and demand. We've got a demand for unskilled workers like anywhere else, however, when the supply of unskilled workers is so great the folks actually needing the workers can pay them pennies on the dollar for their labor thereby hurting unskilled workers who were already in that area/nation/state/country it's not good, not good for anyone really even the migrants.

Donald Trump is the GRANDSON of immigrants, legal immigrants mind you and at a time when immigration was needed to help man factories which fueled the industrial revolution and built our economy up.

LOL my ancestors, oh dear dear dear ....my ancestors have been here since before the United States was an independent nation, they fought in the Revolutionary War....multiple times mind you. So that's what? 243 years ago? So we're talking what? 9-10 generations of my folks being here in this very same state. How much longer will I be considered the product of "immigrants" I'm curious?... but I'm sorry you were saying?


In the UK where I don't live....
How immigrants affect jobs and wages
https://fullfact.org/immigration/imm...s-immigration/
UK research suggests that immigration has a small impact on average wages of existing workers but more significant effects for certain groups: low-wage workers lose while medium and high-paid workers gain.
...Immigrants make your working class poorer and the wealthy more wealthy FACT


I don't care for the Tories or the Conservatives, UKIP is the only party with any lick of sense.


Yes yes call me a bigot, but don't talk about the issues.

"You believe in Markets and yet here you are arguing for centralized Government control in another country based on your own disgusting distaste for it."
Um, you may have inferred that but I didn't say or imply it....The US is on your little graph there and so I responded to it. Sorry I didn't realize I wasn't welcome....mea culpa.

Immigrants can be well educated and all that awesome great stuff I don't deny it....where's their loyalty and what makes them British or English? Those are important questions for the future of England and the UK. In order for there to be a working society there needs to be a couple common threads which bind the people together otherwise problems will develop...I don't make the rules up it's just how life is.

Refugees COULD increase after Brexit, or England COULD enforce it's borders. It's up to those folks who live there.

Look at the EU and look in the mirror and ask yourself who got sold what....I thought England and the UK were just fine before they sold their future to Brussels. LMAO fight the Nazis tooth and nail and then decades later WILLINGLY sign up for their One Europe where you don't even get to choose your fucking European Parliament members LMFAO.....yeah nothing gets past you guys



Anywho, you have fun

[El Kabong]

So Theresa May says there isn’t enough money for doctors, nurses, hospitals, firefighters, so little money that she has had to cut 20,000 frontline police officers, not enough money to help the 400,000 more children in poverty since her government came to power, the 300,000 more pensioners in poverty or the homeless whose numbers have risen by 53% since 2010 …

… BUT SHE’S FOUND ENOUGH OF OUR MONEY TO INCREASE SUBSIDIES FOR GROUSE SHOOTING ESTATES FROM £30 PER HECTARE TO £56 PER HECTARE?

The amount you are now paying for her wealthy mates ‘sport’ has risen from £45m to £84m.

Exceedingly rich people are about to get considerably richer – all willingly paid for by you and me.




But nah...some clueless American tells us it is the fault of the Immigrants it's not it's these fuckers

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2018/...ouse-shooting/

Theresa May is a goofy idiot, I don't think many will disagree with that...her pussyfooting around with Brexit is troublesome. It has everyone worldwide thinking "Will they or won't they"? She's an establishment hack she's not doing Brexit unless she's absolutely forced to.

Woah so the NHS is in financial trouble?!?!?! Whoever would have imagined socialized healthcare running outrageously over budget


You really hate those thunder-chickens don't you?




I'm telling you these guys are making a killing on the working class by flooding the market with cheaper labor and the wages of the working class have stagnated.....but hey don't believe me.

[Джем Мейс]

So Theresa May says there isn’t enough money for doctors, nurses, hospitals, firefighters, so little money that she has had to cut 20,000 frontline police officers, not enough money to help the 400,000 more children in poverty since her government came to power, the 300,000 more pensioners in poverty or the homeless whose numbers have risen by 53% since 2010 …

… BUT SHE’S FOUND ENOUGH OF OUR MONEY TO INCREASE SUBSIDIES FOR GROUSE SHOOTING ESTATES FROM £30 PER HECTARE TO £56 PER HECTARE?

The amount you are now paying for her wealthy mates ‘sport’ has risen from £45m to £84m.

Exceedingly rich people are about to get considerably richer – all willingly paid for by you and me.




But nah...some clueless American tells us it is the fault of the Immigrants it's not it's these fuckers

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2018/...ouse-shooting/

Theresa May is a goofy idiot, I don't think many will disagree with that...her pussyfooting around with Brexit is troublesome. It has everyone worldwide thinking "Will they or won't they"? She's an establishment hack she's not doing Brexit unless she's absolutely forced to.

Woah so the NHS is in financial trouble?!?!?! Whoever would have imagined socialized healthcare running outrageously over budget


You really hate those thunder-chickens don't you?




I'm telling you these guys are making a killing on the working class by flooding the market with cheaper labor and the wages of the working class have stagnated.....but hey don't believe me.

The NHS is in trouble because of YOU and people like you telling lies. You obviously agree with subsidizing the rich at the expense of the poor even when it means the decimation of wildlife for wannabes with thousands to burn every weekend. The Tories who you are absolutely identical too in every meaningful way have an agenda like Trump your terminally stupid President to privatise everything. Most people in the UK (and Americans who have been treated in it)love, treasure and respect the NHS while you are spitting on the idea of it. You have no clue about anything in the UK other than what the fools you want to believe have told you.

The NHS is full of Immigrants and thank fuck few of them are dumb Americans like you. Educate yourself...THEN open your mouth

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...stem-trump-nhs

[Gandalf]

To not point out immigration at all when 8 million people have moved to a small country in a relatively short time and in turn contributed to a housing crisis, school place shortages and been a burden on the NHS is daft. A figure that is not disputed is that migration over a 15 year period cost the UK 119 billion pounds conservatively, but more likely up above 150 billion pounds. That is 6bn pounds a year. I don't know about you but to throw away that much money when it could be spent on something useful for local people seems a waste.

That in tandem with a poorly run economy will have an effect. The truth is the UK minimum wage is reasonable and you can rent a studio cheaply and though you will never live like a king (and neither should you doing an unskilled job), you can live okay. It is one reason migrants like the UK and of course the very generous benefits system that all too many in the country use and stay on year in year out. Out here it is 3 months and then snip. Gone. Get a job.

It would be better to close the borders, protect domestic jobs and rights, and of course close down loopholes and tax havens for the rich. Actually build council housing and give it to responsible people rather than ISIS fighters and single mothers.

A country needs to aspire and this is where other countries leave the UK behind with stronger public services, more cohesive family structures and better education.

[Джем Мейс]

Sounds like you are obsessed by immigrants. Your President is the child of Immigrants, the fact that you are White American means your ancestors too were immigrants. Surprisingly though, not everything is the fault of Immigrants.

In the UK, where you don't fucking live, there is no evidence that unskilled migrants suppress wages, even without considering skilled migrants, it is a Tory/Conservative fallacy, an immigration policy based on your and the Tories distaste for 'Low skilled workers'. You are fucked if you want to use logic to excuse your bigotry. You believe in Markets and yet here you are arguing for centralized Government control in another country based on your own disgusting distaste for it. Most immigrants in the UK come from the EU and are far better educated than the Brits. Young, well educated and hard working but you never mention them. One would have to ask themselves why that is? oh and students. I suppose you find them being immigrants disgusting too? Are they an invading army? Or is it the Refugees who will massively increase after Brexit. The EU has the Schengen passport free agreement in places BUT NOT THE UK. WE HAVE BORDER CHECKS. You have been sold a lie because like a hungry Sea Lion you were drooling in anticipation of something so fishy. Then you swallowed it whole. Not a good look.


"..the empirical evidence shows that EU immigration has not had significantly negative effects on average employment, wages or inequality for British people." http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/0...ag-down-wages/

I wouldn't say I'm obsessed BY immigrants at all...what I explained was not so much an immigration issue as it is an economic issue. It's supply and demand. We've got a demand for unskilled workers like anywhere else, however, when the supply of unskilled workers is so great the folks actually needing the workers can pay them pennies on the dollar for their labor thereby hurting unskilled workers who were already in that area/nation/state/country it's not good, not good for anyone really even the migrants.

Donald Trump is the GRANDSON of immigrants, legal immigrants mind you and at a time when immigration was needed to help man factories which fueled the industrial revolution and built our economy up.

LOL my ancestors, oh dear dear dear ....my ancestors have been here since before the United States was an independent nation, they fought in the Revolutionary War....multiple times mind you. So that's what? 243 years ago? So we're talking what? 9-10 generations of my folks being here in this very same state. How much longer will I be considered the product of "immigrants" I'm curious?... but I'm sorry you were saying?


In the UK where I don't live....
How immigrants affect jobs and wages
https://fullfact.org/immigration/imm...s-immigration/
UK research suggests that immigration has a small impact on average wages of existing workers but more significant effects for certain groups: low-wage workers lose while medium and high-paid workers gain.
...Immigrants make your working class poorer and the wealthy more wealthy FACT


I don't care for the Tories or the Conservatives, UKIP is the only party with any lick of sense.


Yes yes call me a bigot, but don't talk about the issues.

"You believe in Markets and yet here you are arguing for centralized Government control in another country based on your own disgusting distaste for it."
Um, you may have inferred that but I didn't say or imply it....The US is on your little graph there and so I responded to it. Sorry I didn't realize I wasn't welcome....mea culpa.

Immigrants can be well educated and all that awesome great stuff I don't deny it....where's their loyalty and what makes them British or English? Those are important questions for the future of England and the UK. In order for there to be a working society there needs to be a couple common threads which bind the people together otherwise problems will develop...I don't make the rules up it's just how life is.

Refugees COULD increase after Brexit, or England COULD enforce it's borders. It's up to those folks who live there.

Look at the EU and look in the mirror and ask yourself who got sold what....I thought England and the UK were just fine before they sold their future to Brussels. LMAO fight the Nazis tooth and nail and then decades later WILLINGLY sign up for their One Europe where you don't even get to choose your fucking European Parliament members LMFAO.....yeah nothing gets past you guys



Anywho, you have fun

How unsurprising that you are still waging your fake news war denying the horrors of the Nazis with your desire to emulate them with an axis of Nationalist states around the world. The arrogance of you assuming their are no common threads between British unless you approve of them or they are white is mind blowing. You can get to France in an hour and a half from England in a car on a boat or you can even take a train like people do daily. You seem disgusted by that or the idea that we may work in Europe or they may come and work here. Why? Had you not taken into account exactly how much we Europeans have in common when many families share more than one nationality?

[Джем Мейс]

To not point out immigration at all when 8 million people have moved to a small country in a relatively short time and in turn contributed to a housing crisis, school place shortages and been a burden on the NHS is daft. A figure that is not disputed is that migration over a 15 year period cost the UK 119 billion pounds conservatively, but more likely up above 150 billion pounds. That is 6bn pounds a year. I don't know about you but to throw away that much money when it could be spent on something useful for local people seems a waste.

That in tandem with a poorly run economy will have an effect. The truth is the UK minimum wage is reasonable and you can rent a studio cheaply and though you will never live like a king (and neither should you doing an unskilled job), you can live okay. It is one reason migrants like the UK and of course the very generous benefits system that all too many in the country use and stay on year in year out. Out here it is 3 months and then snip. Gone. Get a job.

It would be better to close the borders, protect domestic jobs and rights, and of course close down loopholes and tax havens for the rich. Actually build council housing and give it to responsible people rather than ISIS fighters and single mothers.

A country needs to aspire and this is where other countries leave the UK behind with stronger public services, more cohesive family structures and better education.

A figure that is not disputed is that migration over a 15 year period cost the UK 119 billion pounds conservatively, but more likely up above 150 billion pounds

This is a lie. That makes you a liar.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8448261.html

You insistence that council housing is reserved for ISIS fighters and single mothers proves that you are also a Racist and Bigot. You are pretending that because you despise the working class the immigrant working class willing to do jobs that Brits will not, are scum to you. Your disgust at people doing what you consider an unskilled job reveals just how much you have sold out. How many pieces of silver did you get for that?

You would rather suck off Douglas Murray than give anyone a living wage. No wonder you love to have your ears tickled by fascists.

[Gandalf]

LOL.

A proven 15 year study of the net cost of immigration is something most sensible people would take over a 'projected' number from a contemporary Independent 'newspaper' puff piece.

The data is the data and your other ranty faux outrage is neither here nor there. You cannot prove it wrong whence that article which refuted nothing. I can cite the specific research which you can read yourself.

I could rent a studio and live on the minimum wage. There is no contempt there. However, it is made harder when 8 million are competing for the same things. It's basic supply and demand.

When is enough? 10 million? 15? 25? You do realize that politicians, even British politicians, accept that yes, there is a problem. Even Labour who started this on the contemporary scale admitted they got it wrong. Brexit says people think it is wrong. So, what are you defending exactly? Do you think multiculturalism has been a success?

I said to close down tax loopholes and off shore havens. But the compromise is an end to immigration and to have a little self respect and believe that British people can drive taxis and work in hospitals. I went to hospital yesterday. There was no demand for overseas nurses plucked from the 3rd world. Everything functions just fine.

Douglas Murray is an attractive and well informed man. You should have a little respect.