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Thread: The Environmental Thread

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    Default The Environmental Thread

    I chose not to call it Climate Change, because I know that turns off a lot of people. Environmental is more broad and encompasses other things, such as pollution, deforestation, and the like.

    Whether you think Climate Change is real or not..... if you think it's real, then whether it's man-made or not (0 to 100% or somewhere in between).... whether you think climate scientists are full of shit or not...... it's a topic that's not going away any time soon.

    This is already many months old, but I just saw it on Facebook.





    Now, normally... I don't like actors (or politicians) talking about something they're not trained or educated enough to discuss. But I have no issues with Harrison's speech. Well.... one issue. He fails to talk about pollution. But everything else is ok.
    He.....

    1. Doesn't limit the problem to the U.S., but talks about other countries and their roles as well.

    2. Concentrates on hot spots like the Amazon (deforestation), as well as the destruction of wetlands and other ecologically sensitive systems.

    3. Doesn't single out anybody, but does point fingers at those in power who choose to ignore science.

    4. Is obviously passionate about the topic.


    My own opinion. I think Climate Change is real (can personally attest to the increasing frequency of mega-powerful hurricanes). I think part of it is a natural cyclic behavior, but do not discount the role of man. I can't assign percentages to it, since I'm not a climate scientist, but both are factors. I don't believe there is a conspiracy between climate scientists to create panic among humanity to pursue some sinister motive. They're scientists, trained in their field, and I see no purpose in believing that global temperature data is being faked, fudged, or anything of the sort. At the same time, I frown at doomsayers who claim we'll all be underwater in 50 years or so. So it's a balancing act. It's knowing who to believe and what to discard as nonsense.

    However, deforestation in other countries is a very real threat. The notion that mankind isn't powerful enough to disrupt nature in any way is, IMO..... untrue. We can and we ARE disrupting nature by destroying swaths of Amazonian forests, destroying valuable wetlands for the sake of urban development, and other reckless actions.

    A controversial topic to be sure, but one that deserves honest discussion.


    BTW, Harrison is getting up there in age isn't he.

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    Default Re: The Environmental Thread

    I do not know if you know that we are having peaceful protesters over here causing some disruption. I have every sympathy for them. I think we all need to do more.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47987891
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    Default Re: The Environmental Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    I do not know if you know that we are having peaceful protesters over here causing some disruption. I have every sympathy for them. I think we all need to do more.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47987891

    If only because it brings the cause to the forefront of people's minds, peaceful protests are fine and even useful to a point. I think we all need to do more also. It's a matter of maintaining focus on the important issues. It's also important to not run and hide in the usual bunkers. People become defensive when talking about issues like this, because they feel their ideals and own beliefs are being somehow threatened or challenged. If only people would open their minds and remain objective when discussing things that could potentially affect not only all of us, but our children and grandchildren, we'd be more productive as a society. But every attempt at talking about this is met with political backlash and the usual nonsense.

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    Default Re: The Environmental Thread

    Overpopulation. You cannot double a population every few decades and expect infinite benefits.
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    Default Re: The Environmental Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Overpopulation. You cannot double a population every few decades and expect infinite benefits.
    This is a very common response, and no disrespect, but this does not sound like your reasoned argument Miles, more like you you repeating something that protects the planets very richest who are responsible for 50% of lifestyle emissions and the very greedy valueless form of capitalism for the last 50 yrs. The facts simply do not support the blame the 3rd world excuse, which is a particularly morally redundant bit of blame shifting if we are going to be honest. Anything to deflect from those responsible having to make the real changes to make a difference. The environment can recover but many of us will have to live very different lives and stop the religious adherence to a system that values nothing but the hoarding of personal wealth. The 'less developed' world has more than enough resources to feed itself but for there is much here in the west that can be done to achieve the same results. The USA could feed more than 400 million people if they consumed what they currently export for example. Childless couples go on way more foreign holidays by plane, often run more environmentally damaging vehicles and generally live a more self centered and environmentally damaging lifestyle. It's a inconvenient fact because you don't get to blame what Trump would call 'shithole' countries and pretend that you can IQ test you way to salvation. You have been sold a crock of shite by a bunch of cunts who not only stole the pot of gold at the end but would not give a shit about stealing the Rainbow that led to it.

    Much like the British and Americans being largely responsible for the nurturing and export of the Saudi based warped violent extremist version of Islam around the world, the promotion of an oil based economy to feed that monster is one of the reasons they continue to fight tooth and nail to maintain the ignorant belief system that most of the non-religious west slavishly follows like sheep without question.

    We can't carry on living in denial.
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    Default Re: The Environmental Thread

    Over consumption.
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    Default Re: The Environmental Thread

    Look at the population of the UK over the past 200 years alone. It's mental, then you expand it globally and it is insanity. The countries that produce massive amounts of pollution today are China and India and their populations are crazy. India and large parts of China are still poor, so not just a rich mans game. The US is strangely excessive and I can only assume the people pass wind a lot. As other countries 'develop' they too produce more pollution too. And then when such countries are overpopulated where do they seek to go? To the countries that produce the most emissions.

    If you want people to use less plastic the best way is to have less people. It is common sense.

    I will not change my lifestyle as I don't think it is an excessive one and certainly nothing compared to a person with half a dozen children or even a few children in the West. I shall eat beef, use my AC, and drive with Springsteen on the radio. I have no guilt about it really. I compromise by seldom using any heat in the winter as I don't feel the cold. You will never see me on a business class flight (or even many flights), or performing a world tour with the latest technology to hide my lack of tunes, or driving a formula one racing car, or live in Dubai with the AC cranked up while people use inside ski slopes. It's up to everyone else what they do, but I am not terribly greedy really. Only do what I need to do in the here and now. Almost monk like in some ways really.
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    Default Re: The Environmental Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Overpopulation. You cannot double a population every few decades and expect infinite benefits.
    This is a very common response, and no disrespect, but this does not sound like your reasoned argument Miles, more like you you repeating something that protects the planets very richest who are responsible for 50% of lifestyle emissions and the very greedy valueless form of capitalism for the last 50 yrs. The facts simply do not support the blame the 3rd world excuse, which is a particularly morally redundant bit of blame shifting if we are going to be honest. Anything to deflect from those responsible having to make the real changes to make a difference. The environment can recover but many of us will have to live very different lives and stop the religious adherence to a system that values nothing but the hoarding of personal wealth. The 'less developed' world has more than enough resources to feed itself but for there is much here in the west that can be done to achieve the same results. The USA could feed more than 400 million people if they consumed what they currently export for example. Childless couples go on way more foreign holidays by plane, often run more environmentally damaging vehicles and generally live a more self centered and environmentally damaging lifestyle. It's a inconvenient fact because you don't get to blame what Trump would call 'shithole' countries and pretend that you can IQ test you way to salvation. You have been sold a crock of shite by a bunch of cunts who not only stole the pot of gold at the end but would not give a shit about stealing the Rainbow that led to it.

    Much like the British and Americans being largely responsible for the nurturing and export of the Saudi based warped violent extremist version of Islam around the world, the promotion of an oil based economy to feed that monster is one of the reasons they continue to fight tooth and nail to maintain the ignorant belief system that most of the non-religious west slavishly follows like sheep without question.

    We can't carry on living in denial.


    I'll chime in by saying we can't responsibly look after the planet's resources while ignoring the population explosion factor.

    Here's the key. It's a global problem. Not solely the responsibility of the U.S. or any other superpower. Efforts must be made globally. At the same time we're developing new technologies to grow crops without depending on traditional methods... at the same time we're looking inward to our own developed countries to see how to better protect the environment... at the same time we're doing all this research for better planned cities and the like.... we also need to assign responsibilities to less developed countries and cultures as well. Just because let's say, China, previously lagged behind in industrialization and development, it doesn't mean they should be given carte blanche to catch up and even pass the rest of the world by..... without giving one iota to the environmental concerns of the world. It's like Harrison Ford said in his speech. We can put solar panels in every home in the U.S., and switch every car in the U.S. to electric power. It still doesn't alleviate the problem of deforestation in the Amazon basin, or the destruction of wetlands in other parts of the world.

    You see... the problem is that we're at a certain stage in standard of living.... but other countries are desperately trying to catch up. The quintessential image of the indigenous tribal child playing with his smart phone in the village is the typical picture of the world's encroachment on the less developed. Once they taste that style of living, they're not going to be willing to listen to the importance of maintaining the jungles and rain forests.

    So while saying overpopulation by itself may sound simplistic and copy-pasted.... it's a very real problem. Why not educate tribal peoples in Africa that having 15 children per family does no one any good? I see no harm in that. Times have changed. We must change with the times.

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    Default Re: The Environmental Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Look at the population of the UK over the past 200 years alone. It's mental, then you expand it globally and it is insanity. The countries that produce massive amounts of pollution today are China and India and their populations are crazy. India and large parts of China are still poor, so not just a rich mans game. The US is strangely excessive and I can only assume the people pass wind a lot. As other countries 'develop' they too produce more pollution too. And then when such countries are overpopulated where do they seek to go? To the countries that produce the most emissions.

    If you want people to use less plastic the best way is to have less people. It is common sense.

    I will not change my lifestyle as I don't think it is an excessive one and certainly nothing compared to a person with half a dozen children or even a few children in the West. I shall eat beef, use my AC, and drive with Springsteen on the radio. I have no guilt about it really. I compromise by seldom using any heat in the winter as I don't feel the cold. You will never see me on a business class flight (or even many flights), or performing a world tour with the latest technology to hide my lack of tunes, or driving a formula one racing car, or live in Dubai with the AC cranked up while people use inside ski slopes. It's up to everyone else what they do, but I am not terribly greedy really. Only do what I need to do in the here and now. Almost monk like in some ways really.
    All thats left is either a vow of silence or lighting yourself on fire.

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    Default Re: The Environmental Thread

    The protesters in London are typical privileged cunts. Hypocrites. This gives them the chance to play the victim. "We're the last generation, we've had our future stolen" (sickening).

    Every era in history has been littered with complete and utter cunts who believe everything begins and ends with them.
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    Default Re: The Environmental Thread

    Big fan of the Environment. More pissed off that they killed Solo off like that though. Mid 50's in the deep South tonight. Not normal.

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    Default Re: The Environmental Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    Big fan of the Environment. More pissed off that they killed Solo off like that though. Mid 50's in the deep South tonight. Not normal.
    What is the normal temp. We had a deep freeze winter I’ll tell you that, no joke up here.

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    Default Re: The Environmental Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    Big fan of the Environment. More pissed off that they killed Solo off like that though. Mid 50's in the deep South tonight. Not normal.
    What is the normal temp. We had a deep freeze winter I’ll tell you that, no joke up here.
    We were hitting near 81 this time last year. It's been a very erratic weather pattern. Not that I'm in a rush for the devils front porch humidity we see, just wish it would make it's mind up.

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    Default Re: The Environmental Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    The protesters in London are typical privileged cunts. Hypocrites. This gives them the chance to play the victim. "We're the last generation, we've had our future stolen" (sickening).

    Every era in history has been littered with complete and utter cunts who believe everything begins and ends with them.
    Yeah obviously all of them. From the kids to the grannies its all down to some bloke in a hut in Africa anyway
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    Default Re: The Environmental Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    The protesters in London are typical privileged cunts. Hypocrites. This gives them the chance to play the victim. "We're the last generation, we've had our future stolen" (sickening).

    Every era in history has been littered with complete and utter cunts who believe everything begins and ends with them.
    Yeah obviously all of them. From the kids to the grannies its all down to some bloke in a hut in Africa anyway
    Look at the population of India where the majority defacate in the streets. It is far more than some bloke in a hut. The Ganges is a horrible mess and disease rampant. It is far more than greenhouse emissions. Mass overpopulation is a real problem and is going to get much worse. It is something some people are in denial about.

    http://theconversation.com/ganges-se...r-worse-108146
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