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Thread: Corbyn attacker get 28 days in prison, Robinson attacked and police do nothing.

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  1. #226
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    Default Re: Corbyn attacker get 28 days in prison, Robinson attacked and police do nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Okay, not quite as good as saying 'Look at the multiple references to Gandalf in the previous pages' and the post above does contain some good points, but you do keep defending violence against people for doing nothing more than expressing an opinion and as a man who admits to 'losing my job and family' if you meet such a person then you do unfortunately come across as rather 'eccentric'.

    Then is your inability to process that ordinary people, mostly working class people, from places not as plummy as your town, want out. It is in one ear and out the other. The notion that the EU can be reformed is absurd. Since when has the EU relented on anything?

    Listen to some of the statements PJW compiles in his latest video. You want in because you do not think the British can govern themselves and you clearly have a problem with basically the majority of the UK as most regions outside of London simply don't want to be a part of it.

    There is nothing wrong with wanting citizens to be first and to be an individual state that governs itself. You know full well that open borders was never anything the people agreed to. You full well know that.
    This really is just you ranting. Watch the video. I understand you are deluded at best but actually something much more sinister really.

    Like your assertion that Corbyn and his labour party are blairites. Red Jezza and comrade Mcdonnell.. Really? Ha! Like your fear of socialism and your insistence that private education and the dismantling of the NHS is what you want in your drive to make the UK a mini me USA.

    You have quite publicly backed the MIC and the continuation of constant wars in the middle East with your endorsement of their man Tommy and his mossad backing rhetoric. Like him you are backing the empire based occupation of Ireland and the persecution of Palestinians and genuine refugees all over the world.

    You have seen the corruption at the heart of UKIP and ignored it. The elitism of Farrage and his foreign backers and ignored it.

    I live work and vote here mate. PJW like you does not. He takes his pieces of silver from those who want to destroy everything that makes Britain what it is and again it seems you endorse that.

    You sneer at the UK and its citizens from afar while we all live and work here. Stop trying to make everyone as childish as you are. Why the fuck would anyone waste their time talking to these dicks who are your heroes?

    You go and meet them you lazy bastard. You go to work and play on your PlayStation and then want a blue Peter badge for tidying your room. Get a life mate it is pitiful hearing you mistake reading a book for having one.
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    Default Re: Corbyn attacker get 28 days in prison, Robinson attacked and police do nothing.

    Now I am the one ranting? I am sinister? It isn't me saying I am unable to control myself in a conversation with somebody or saying it is okay to physically assault people.

    1. I have never called Corbyn a Blairite. I have said his party is full Blair-esque ideologues. It is one reason he cannot unify his own party and why they periodically want to boot him unless they can get their way. So, again, why do you continually lie like this? Again, I have not called for the privatisation of the NHS or the public school system. Go back and read my response to Master in that thread.

    2. Now, go back and tell me when I have supported the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq or the dismantling of Libya or Syria? I am against all foreign intervention. In fact Robinson himself claimed the same in a recent interview with a member of the public. However, I am not Tommy Robinson am I? I think you are getting confused about who I am again. I have always argued for a return to the 1967 borders as advocated by Noam Chomsky. I am against the suppression of the Palestinian people. You must remember that I do not agree with all people on all things. I am my own person. Please, stop making things up.

    3. UKIP at its present time is on a different path to the Farage era and issues like freedom of expression, anti political correctness, border control, and self determination are what I like. Just as Palestine should be free, so should the UK.

    4. It does not matter where you live or work. A British citizen is a British citizen and his voice and opinion is as important as any other British citizen. He certainly has a bigger platform than you or I. He loves his country and if his money comes from opposing what you believe then that is what it is. I am not Paul Joseph Watson. It is the discourse I care about. He did not manufacture EU politicians essentially saying they have always wanted colonies and that they effectively own the UK. In that sense he sounds like a patriot.

    5. Oh dear running out of points so resorting to potty mouth and insults. I do not sneer at good people and there are many. I sneer at fools only and there are seemingly many too. It is the way the cookie crumbles. It is you sneering at the people and pretending that their voices do not matter. They had a referendum and all you do is claim that you are right and that they are wrong and thus you won't stop going on about it. I sneer at people assaulting people while you say throw more milkshakes. And I am childish? Says the violent 48 year old who will lose his job and family if he engages with someone who is not part of art collective lefty bubble circuit? Grow up.

    6. I would love to meet such people and say thank you for reclaiming national pride after years of put downs. Why do you think people of my generation ended up ashamed of our country? It is because we are taught to hate ourselves be it through parents or the system itself and indoctrination. We do all have potential and can do very well providing we are motivated and guided well.

    @Elkabong we have discussed Playstation games. Would you care to tell Beanz how much I play on my PS4? I think he will be disappointed by his projection. I really do only play 2 games a year max and in my vacation time only. Why don't you harangue all the other gamers and readers out there? Didn't you say you were going to pick up RDR2 yourself. Again. Grow up!

    All that to defend pretty much nothing at all.
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    Default Re: Corbyn attacker get 28 days in prison, Robinson attacked and police do nothing.

    Don't like much of Beanz posts but he is the only other one I see acknowledging Robinsons Mossad Israel Zionist ties

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    Default Re: Corbyn attacker get 28 days in prison, Robinson attacked and police do nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by TIC View Post
    Don't like much of Beanz posts but he is the only other one I see acknowledging Robinsons Mossad Israel Zionist ties
    Call me naive but I was surprised at that link.
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    Default Re: Corbyn attacker get 28 days in prison, Robinson attacked and police do nothing.

    Anarchist toff - You should be be in jail for your comments.

    Carlagon - You have a t-shirt which advocates killing anyone who opposes your revolution.

    Anarchrist - It's tongue in cheek.

    Carlagon - So it's a joke when you do it but not when I do.




    3-Time SADDO PREDICTION COMP CHAMPION.

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    Default Re: Corbyn attacker get 28 days in prison, Robinson attacked and police do nothing.

    Hahaha! These 'debates' are gold. Really loving them. Sargon is starting to make a dent now, he is really good at this.
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    Default Re: Corbyn attacker get 28 days in prison, Robinson attacked and police do nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    How is that an example of me not answering any questions or saying you can't comment?it simply isn't and you know it.
    Firstly, you didn't answer my questions. Secondly, and I initially chalked this up to my not being able to judge the tone in which you've responded, but you've seemingly returned to your default setting and it comes across as quite rude and dismissive. Here I am wanting a free exchange of ideas back and forth and instead of obliging me and my curiosity you decide to shit all over me...you're too young, you're not from here, you don't read or watch the correct news outlets, and so on...I trusted that you would be true to your word and we'd put all the pettiness behind us. I'm still acting in good faith right now, I'm not personally attacking you, I've put questions to you so that I might glean some information from your answers, but given your responses I don't think I'll bother with it anymore.

    I'm not even attempting debate at this point, I'm attempting to understand your side and your side is apparently to dismiss anything and everything that I think and believe but also those things you ASSUME I think and believe.


    You missed a golden opportunity to win someone over.



    Oh and what's all this then



    You older than George Carlin? He was born in 1937...is that too old? Not old enough? Just right? Hmm
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

  8. #233
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    Default Re: Corbyn attacker get 28 days in prison, Robinson attacked and police do nothing.

    10 days ago so you may have missed it but this is what i mean about you just assuming stuff and not even reading threads so maybe i should not be surprised by you not even reading my replies to your questions.


    And yes I comprehensively answered all your questions one by one.


    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    What Benjamin says

    "Once again BuzzFeed position themselves as the progressive joke police. I stand behind David Baddiel's justification about why any subject can be the subject of a joke. The alternative is a world devoid of humour, the essential tool we use to reduce the horror of events that are beyond our control"

    What Baddiel actually saidKate McCann says, "So it's acceptable to joke about raping a woman?" And Carl Benjamin says - well, shouts - "YES! ANY QUESTIONS?" The thing is Carl: you don't look like you're joking. You look like you're consumed with rage.
    George Carlin made a joke about rape when he said you can make a joke of anything
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    What Benjamin says

    "Once again BuzzFeed position themselves as the progressive joke police. I stand behind David Baddiel's justification about why any subject can be the subject of a joke. The alternative is a world devoid of humour, the essential tool we use to reduce the horror of events that are beyond our control"

    What Baddiel actually saidKate McCann says, "So it's acceptable to joke about raping a woman?" And Carl Benjamin says - well, shouts - "YES! ANY QUESTIONS?" The thing is Carl: you don't look like you're joking. You look like you're consumed with rage.
    George Carlin made a joke about rape when he said you can make a joke of anything
    He also said it depends on how you construct the joke. He also said " i've got nothing against the feminists I happen to agree with most of the feminist philosophy I have read. I agree for the most part that men are vain greedy brutal assholes who have just about ruined this planet because they afraid someone might have a bigger dick out there. Men are basically insecure about the size of their dicks and so go to war over it"

    He made a lot of points you and most of the people quoting him would rip the piss out of other people for stating.
    Benjamin also said he would not be happy if someone said what he did to his own wife.

    Benjamin could also not make a joke if his life depended on it. You both have that in common.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    Funny Guy

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    What Benjamin says

    "Once again BuzzFeed position themselves as the progressive joke police. I stand behind David Baddiel's justification about why any subject can be the subject of a joke. The alternative is a world devoid of humour, the essential tool we use to reduce the horror of events that are beyond our control"

    What Baddiel actually saidKate McCann says, "So it's acceptable to joke about raping a woman?" And Carl Benjamin says - well, shouts - "YES! ANY QUESTIONS?" The thing is Carl: you don't look like you're joking. You look like you're consumed with rage.
    George Carlin made a joke about rape when he said you can make a joke of anything
    He also said it depends on how you construct the joke. He also said " i've got nothing against the feminists I happen to agree with most of the feminist philosophy I have read. I agree for the most part that men are vain greedy brutal assholes who have just about ruined this planet because they afraid someone might have a bigger dick out there. Men are basically insecure about the size of their dicks and so go to war over it"

    He made a lot of points you and most of the people quoting him would rip the piss out of other people for stating.
    Benjamin also said he would not be happy if someone said what he did to his own wife.

    Benjamin could also not make a joke if his life depended on it. You both have that in common.
    Beanz, I was just saying he did a few that’s all it wasn’t an attack on you I’m not really following what is going on here I guess I stepped into something
    I didn't think it was an attack on me and neither was I attacking you. Like some french bloke said "You can joke about anything but you can't expect everyone to laugh"


    He said it in French of course
    x

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    How is that an example of me not answering any questions or saying you can't comment?it simply isn't and you know it.
    Firstly, you didn't answer my questions. Secondly, and I initially chalked this up to my not being able to judge the tone in which you've responded, but you've seemingly returned to your default setting and it comes across as quite rude and dismissive. Here I am wanting a free exchange of ideas back and forth and instead of obliging me and my curiosity you decide to shit all over me...you're too young, you're not from here, you don't read or watch the correct news outlets, and so on...I trusted that you would be true to your word and we'd put all the pettiness behind us. I'm still acting in good faith right now, I'm not personally attacking you, I've put questions to you so that I might glean some information from your answers, but given your responses I don't think I'll bother with it anymore.

    I'm not even attempting debate at this point, I'm attempting to understand your side and your side is apparently to dismiss anything and everything that I think and believe but also those things you ASSUME I think and believe.


    You missed a golden opportunity to win someone over.



    Oh and what's all this then



    You older than George Carlin? He was born in 1937...is that too old? Not old enough? Just right? Hmm
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    Default Re: Corbyn attacker get 28 days in prison, Robinson attacked and police do nothing.

    Actually you didn't answer them and I'll go over that more tomorrow.

    So I guess you and you alone or you and a couple of other left-leaning people are the folks who decide if a joke is jokey enough to be a joke is that it are you the one that decides that are you the one that decides when a joke is a joke and when one's not a joke is it only if the joke goes with your political views is that it is it like with other art that you like it's got to be part of your political view and something that you agree with in order for it to be acceptable speech is that it?
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    Default Re: Corbyn attacker get 28 days in prison, Robinson attacked and police do nothing.

    This is an excellent expose of the Greater Manchester Police and what happened in Oldham which the media and police fail to be honest about. To put it into perspective in Cambridge Robinson was thrown out of a pub while watching watching football with his kids for no reason at all except that he might miraculously cause a disturbance. Yet here the police were actually leading hundreds of armed men to a political rally in order to cause a serious ruckus. Interesting optics, right? Now people wonder why I think there might be a problem with 'some' government workers.

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    Default Re: Corbyn attacker get 28 days in prison, Robinson attacked and police do nothing.

    10-15 years? OK I don't know how that's an issue I'm an adult I was an adult over a decade ago as well. No I don't live there but due to the internet I'm quite able to follow what happens there...various sources too mind. Well I guess if you're "pretty sure" then you must feel good assuming things about me, I do hate to disappoint you, but I don't mix my politics and art (including music) I enjoy, do you? Why would I shut myself off from good art due to politics? Do you?

    Have you not? I lived through 8 years of Obama, I've seen plenty and everyone you mentioned has been grilled a hell of a lot harder than Obama ever was. Carl Benjamin on the BBC the other day faced a tougher line of questioning than Obama ever has.

    Fine Shapiro terminated an interview, I don't care it's erroneous to the current discussion. If you believe The BBC is right wing then I don't know what to tell you other than "Can you see the edge from where you're standing?"

    OK so UKIP and Brexit Party don't represent the people, the people who voted for Brexit...so who does represent those people the Tories? Labour? Change UK?

    Why bring up Gandalf? I thought it was you and me that were having a nice discussion where I'm politely asking you questions in order to better understand your position and you're (and maybe this is my not being able to discern tone here) taking shots at me for asking those questions . OK so you're not ok with my having an opinion on British politics....alright then fine I'll go back to my own thread and leave you to sort everything out....


    One last thing though....

    "I am not telling you how you came to your views. That is abundantly clear"

    vs

    "It seems you will never accept this whatever he does because he represents something else to you, and that is because you have relied on only heavily distorted propaganda to come to that conclusion. I understand it is the same ignorance that made Ben Shapiro call Andrew Neil a lefty this week "


    Cognitive Dissonance.....what's that?
    [/QUOTE]


    REPLY

    It is only because you constantly quote from the same sources that I came to such a conclusion. You of course would think that the internet is a good substitute for boots on the ground because that is part of your generations way of looking at the world. When my stepsons (who is 30) friends made rape jokes in the past it became quite clear that generations view things differently. It doesn't mean that you are incapable of reaching more rational and reasonable conclusions than somebody of my age but it does explain the difference.

    And yes of course i mix my politics and art. I have staked almost everything on it, as have virtually all of my closest friends. They are at times inseparable. There is a whole wall of local venue covered in massive blown up versions of my work and in the very centre of it all is an anti-fascist flag. Even if i am skint or knackered I will always make time for an anti-racist gig or to support a charity supporting refugees or abused kids etc. I have got on a night bus to work in London on many occasion to support the fight against censorship and the killing of what so many now just call 'the elite media class' of journalists all over the world. I am the living embodiment of an SJW crusty hippy punk photo-journalist limp and all, that has had the privilege of spending some of my working life talking to the people who worked with Strummer and the people who helped start Rock against Racism and the Anti-Nazi league. I make no apologies for it. In the end it has kept me alive and helped support two generations.

    Benjamin is not Obama and while Obama may have deserved a personal droning, Benjamin certainly deserves at least a bucket of milkshake for many reasons, selling out an electorate to a corrupt party being one of many. The amount of racist shite Obama caught by people prefacing it with provisos that is was not because they were racist that they hated the muslim non american with the fake birth certificate made it quite clear, even from here across the pond, that he was not given the easy ride you are suggesting. I never defended the war monger but did not feel the need to pretend that Trump is not corrupt, inept and as neck deep in corruption as the Clintons and all the others.

    You are mistaking my not buying into the right wing propaganda as an indication that I must buy into the other end. That is not the case. Nuance, and complexity are what life is about and you will find no more nuance in the Morning Star than you will in the Daily Mail.

    I never said that UKIP does not represent the people that voted for Brexit. Of course they do but no more than the tories , the labour party etc do. That is kind of the point. People across the spectrum voted quite equally to stay and leave, It literally split the nation as evidenced in the close result. How we leave and what we would do if we did was never even discussed.

    And yes of course you can have an opinion on British politics. I have tried for months to leave the Trump thread alone but your opinion is as valid as anyone else.

    You have to remember though that it is American interests that are being used to shape British and European politics in an effort to make everyone hyper nationlist and isolationist. There is a right wing corporate elite push back happening and it is there because it hates the idea of cooperation and commons and community.

    Like yourself it views even quite moderate fair capitalist ideas as communism and a threat. What Yanis proposes would represent real change and people are terrified of that. Ironically that is what those voting Brexit really have in common with many Blairite (or LIB DEM traitorous) remainers. THey want either a regression to the past or 'The same as it ever was'.

    You cannot get any more establishment than Farrge the toffs and multinational corporations that installed him. He is no alternative just as UKIP the party he formed is not. Benjamin represents a desire to regress as does Tommy because change is just too challenging to them personally.

    Its a lot to digest, and you may find it too unpalatetable, but I have nothing to gain by telling lies.

    For me the forum, like life, is kind of wasted if all we all think we can't learn anything from others.

    I have found it most instructive, if baffling at times, to be surrounded by people quite unlike most of my mates and family etc.


    I brought up Gandalf because he has been one of the most vocal on these things and in this thread but he is speaking from a place between us both.


    Most people don't even want to speak about it so don't take me or his word for it and certainly look further away from the narrow prism of Tommy, Carl and that whole 'scene'.

    It really is not very representative.[/QUOTE]

    @El Kabong here are you questions answered in full. I posted it already. You really are quite unreasonable. I get you don't like or agree with the answers but that is not the point.

    Tommy, Carl, PJW and the MSM are two sides of the same coin. They feed each other and revel in outrage and identity politics. You and many here reposting their crap are part of the same game.
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    Default Re: Corbyn attacker get 28 days in prison, Robinson attacked and police do nothing.

    My questions (which still remain unanswered) are as follows:
    1. What am I "outraged" about specifically?
    2. To whom do I look outraged?
    3. Why are Tommy Robinson & Carl Benjamin called "fascists"? (note that the question never accuses you personally of calling them that, but folks on your side certainly use the term often and I would like to know why so I can better understand their view)
    4. (I'll lump all these together as they are in the same vein) Is the culture not rapidly changing? Is there not massive immigration? If all cultures ARE equal and beautiful and brilliant then what of the English culture? Is that not worth protecting?


    5. How have I 'cheapened the entire concept of free speech'? which was a reference to your direct quote which was:
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz
    Do you not think it strange when you and Carl speak about Free speech it is in a way that cheapens and makes the concept worthless?
    6. You also accused me (and Carl Benjamin) of both "shutting down the right of reply" and "telling people what they should feel" so I politely asked: Who is doing that? How are they doing it? I also asked "I can't force people to feel feelings can I?" which in this case would best be worded in question form as: Do you believe I can force people to feel feelings against their will?
    7. (again I'll group these) What makes him(Carl Benjamin) a cunt? What has he (Carl) done specifically to draw your ire? What have I lied about? What has he (Carl) lied about? I'm searching my mind to figure this out. Do I use the same tactics?


    I don't feel as though the questions asked were all that horrible given the apparent vitriol you still have for me. I've been quite patient and chalked up the tone of your posts to my misunderstanding the tone in which you feel you are writing....you've never addressed that which leads me to believe more that the tone you've written in is quite on purpose and therefore you're no longer operating on friendly terms with me. Which hell that's certainly your prerogative, but I'm not going to be belligerent with you and if you want to have a civil discussion then perhaps you'll correct yourself, but that's entirely up to you.


    Now then, I shall address the post which you believe answered all of my questions. I do hope this is not a futile gesture, I continue to act in good faith treating you in a friendly manner and making no assumptions of you or your character which is why of course I must ask questions and gather that information in order to respond appropriately as my goal is to better understand you and your way of thinking and that is made rather difficult when you refuse to respond to simple honest questions or you respond with mordancy.
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: Corbyn attacker get 28 days in prison, Robinson attacked and police do nothing.

    OK so I'm now going to address your answers to those questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz
    It is only because you constantly quote from the same sources that I came to such a conclusion.
    OH ok so you ARE telling me how I came to my views then. That's fine if it is what you believe, it's not necessarily something I appreciate you assuming but in this case I do appreciate that you honestly admitted that is exactly what you were doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz
    You of course would think that the internet is a good substitute for boots on the ground because that is part of your generations way of looking at the world.
    Well the internet has made a massive change in communication, news, and politics worldwide to not accept that absolute fact is a bit odd especially for someone so tied to progress and change and the like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz
    When my stepsons (who is 30) friends made rape jokes in the past it became quite clear that generations view things differently. It doesn't mean that you are incapable of reaching more rational and reasonable conclusions than somebody of my age but it does explain the difference.
    Well to paraphrase one of your responses to me 'I'm not your stepson, I'm not your stepson's friends either'. I grew up with shock jocks lewd and crude humor and the boundaries of free speech (of which there should be none) being tested constantly. I also grew up with manners, respect, and dignity all of which have their place in polite society. No geopolitical state, no political party, no gender, no age has the market cornered on idiots that is what I believe. Age could bring wisdom from experience, but experience itself has no age to it. I believe all ages, all experience levels, everyone should get the opportunity to chime in as someone who looks at a problem from a new perspective could quite possibly find the solution by not having their mind clouded from past experiences...now disaster could happen that way as well so I reckon a good balance is needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz
    And yes of course i mix my politics and art. I have staked almost everything on it, as have virtually all of my closest friends.
    Well that is a perfectly fine and admirable (to an extent) way for you to choose to live your life. Not everyone chooses to live that way though, I certainly don't as I believe it would limit not just what art I appreciated it would limit HOW I appreciated the art. Viewing/experiencing art only through the lens of politics is something I find far too shallow. So again, I'm by no means having a pop at you or what you decide for yourself I'm just saying for me personally as an individual I like being open to different art regardless of the politics of it...what do I lose in being open to listening/experiencing that art? (and that's a rhetorical question so you certainly don't have to respond to it)


    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz
    Benjamin is not Obama and while Obama may have deserved a personal droning, Benjamin certainly deserves at least a bucket of milkshake for many reasons, selling out an electorate to a corrupt party being one of many. The amount of racist shite Obama caught by people prefacing it with provisos that is was not because they were racist that they hated the muslim non american with the fake birth certificate made it quite clear, even from here across the pond, that he was not given the easy ride you are suggesting. I never defended the war monger but did not feel the need to pretend that Trump is not corrupt, inept and as neck deep in corruption as the Clintons and all the others.
    No of course Benjamin isn't Obama he'd be treated far better if he were. You say things like "selling out an electorate to a corrupt party being one of many" but never expound on it which that is exactly where the information I want is, so if you would be so kind as to lay out those things and I know it is difficult (as I have my problems with staying on topic as well), but try not to go off on some different rant while you pour over the specifics of your dislike for Carl I would greatly appreciate the insight that would provide me and perhaps I could then see your side of things if you aren't too jaded by this (and it's completely fine to me if you say "nah I'm too jaded in dealing with you") I'd much more appreciate that than getting into the rut of fighting again which I for one am not going to do anymore, I'd rather not post at all than go back to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz
    You are mistaking my not buying into the right wing propaganda as an indication that I must buy into the other end. That is not the case. Nuance, and complexity are what life is about and you will find no more nuance in the Morning Star than you will in the Daily Mail.
    Well this is why I've asked you the questions I have and it's why I'm attempting to understand where exactly you're coming from. I've not done it to waste your time or personally attack you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz
    I never said that UKIP does not represent the people that voted for Brexit. Of course they do but no more than the tories , the labour party etc do. That is kind of the point. People across the spectrum voted quite equally to stay and leave, It literally split the nation as evidenced in the close result. How we leave and what we would do if we did was never even discussed.
    Well firstly I apologize for misrepresenting your words. Now if what you've stated is the case then I guess what must be done is to A) Figure out how to carry out Brexit in a manner that hurts as few people as possible because the vote being officially recognized and consequences thereof being carried out matters and B ) answer the question (this is of the British citizens themselves) why were they handed such a poorly thought out referendum? ....of course my take on that would be that the establishment never thought Brexit would win ergo the ill conceived wording and lack of a plan for if Brexit won the vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz
    And yes of course you can have an opinion on British politics. I have tried for months to leave the Trump thread alone but your opinion is as valid as anyone else.
    I appreciate that. I also understand that my being physically far away may not see me privy to certain information available on the ground, I do seek out unedited source material as often as possible/available to me. I'm by no means a perfect human being, I do have my opinions and they're not always going to jive with everyone else's and that is absolutely fine. This is a boxing forum we're not solving world peace anytime soon so let's keep our discussions even the political ones light and that is why I want to better understand your views and how you came to them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz
    You have to remember though that it is American interests that are being used to shape British and European politics in an effort to make everyone hyper nationlist and isolationist. There is a right wing corporate elite push back happening and it is there because it hates the idea of cooperation and commons and community.
    What of Globalization then? Is globalization the best option going forward and should it be unopposed? The British government (among many others) attempted to shape American politics in 2016. I believe there's an issue with certain corporations and yes they can hold way too much power and some are far too cozy with China which greatly disturbs me as I see that model as the route to the demise of freedom and liberty worldwide.

    1/2
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

  14. #239
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    Default Re: Corbyn attacker get 28 days in prison, Robinson attacked and police do nothing.

    2/2

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz
    Like yourself it views even quite moderate fair capitalist ideas as communism and a threat. What Yanis proposes would represent real change and people are terrified of that. Ironically that is what those voting Brexit really have in common with many Blairite (or LIB DEM traitorous) remainers. THey want either a regression to the past or 'The same as it ever was'.
    It being the "right wing corporate elite"? Yanis is a literal Marxist and while certain folks view Marx as this intellectual giant I guess mere mortals attempting to achieve his worldview have either misunderstood how it works or misrepresented it or something but every time it's tried it fails. Perhaps there's a sweet spot somehow some way that people can achieve, but I don't want to risk 100 million lives on it when I think our economic system needs a tweak here and there in order to get us working correctly. As for "regression or same as it ever was" change happens it's a part of life, but the rate at which change happens matters for cohesive nation states, for assimilation, for polite society...the migration push (and nobody can deny it's a PUSH) isn't for nothing, there's a reason for it and in my own opinion it's to destabilize nation states so that larger overarching (unaccountable to the people) governments gain more power like the EU and UN, but that's my view and yours could be completely different, you could see those things as the wave of the future and the next logical step, I don't know but it's part of why I ask questions and appreciate your honest answers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz
    You cannot get any more establishment than Farrge the toffs and multinational corporations that installed him. He is no alternative just as UKIP the party he formed is not. Benjamin represents a desire to regress as does Tommy because change is just too challenging to them personally.
    That's fine if that is what Farrage truly is. Who installed Corbyn and May? And if they are no different then where does one go as a voter? Carl Benjamin is running because his freedom of speech and part of how he earns his money have been under attack for years. Carl Benjamin was happy to play and review videogames but Gamergate happened, Feminists have made it their mission in life to destroy him, and various platforms ban or censor him....they could have just let him alone couldn't they? Even if he attempts to troll those people, they aren't required by law to notice him or react to him and ditto with Tommy. Carl and Tommy have followings for a reason, they didn't come out of nowhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz
    Its a lot to digest, and you may find it too unpalatetable, but I have nothing to gain by telling lies.

    For me the forum, like life, is kind of wasted if all we all think we can't learn anything from others.

    I have found it most instructive, if baffling at times, to be surrounded by people quite unlike most of my mates and family etc.

    I brought up Gandalf because he has been one of the most vocal on these things and in this thread but he is speaking from a place between us both.

    Most people don't even want to speak about it so don't take me or his word for it and certainly look further away from the narrow prism of Tommy, Carl and that whole 'scene'.

    It really is not very representative.
    Indeed, and I appreciate your taking the time to respond honestly. I agree we should be trying to hear voices from opposing views, we should challenge our own views and be up for defending our own views as well. I too have been completely blindsided by some of the different opinions on here and there have been more than a few times I've responded incorrectly to them, I'm attempting to do better but I'll never agree 100% with anyone I don't even 100% agree with myself after a while.

    I ask when you bring up other posters in a response to me because I feel (and maybe this is just me) but I perceive that causing more work for you as Gandalf or Al or myself or whomever will of course see they're mentioned, they'll then decide to respond and with 1 post you've now got 3-4 people you're having a discussion with instead of just the one and that would lead me to believe that oftentimes you might feel ganged up on because of that type of thing...but that's just an observation from me so take it for what it is worth.

    Well I do frequently ask questions to myself of what Tommy, Carl, etc produce, but it's never so much more than I ask of the mainstream media as those are gigantic corporations (of which we're all rightly dubious of correct?) So it kind of piques my interest when The BBC (whom you've said are far right) bring on Carl Benjamin and attempt to demolish him in an interrogation style interview because that to me doesn't add up unless of course one is to view the BBC as the establishment and Carl Benjamin then as anti-establishment in which case should we not err on the side of the little guy or is the little guy owned and operated by the mega corporations who (and this is a bit conspiracy theory-like) are at odds with other mega corporations that run media? So that's a bit tricky for me to unravel. I do of course check out other sources but Carl is (even if you disagree with his politics) quite good at what he does. He produces good arguments and debates rather well, he's been debating all over England and sure the protesters he faces aren't the best spoken lot and maybe they get a bit of stage fright, but Carl is seemingly willing to talk to anyone and everyone, shouldn't that be the case for all politicians? I'd certainly welcome it in America.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz View Post
    @El Kabong here are you questions answered in full. I posted it already. You really are quite unreasonable. I get you don't like or agree with the answers but that is not the point.

    Tommy, Carl, PJW and the MSM are two sides of the same coin. They feed each other and revel in outrage and identity politics. You and many here reposting their crap are part of the same game.
    I appreciate that. If you feel I'm unreasonable then that is fine you're certainly free to feel as you like. I won't bother you with my posting if you'd rather I move along to something else.

    Tommy, Carl, and PJW don't have giant corporations behind them funding everything they do and demonizing and silencing everyone that dares disagree with them so they are quite different than the mainstream media. Very few corporations control our media in the United States and you've got STATE controlled media in the BBC in Britain so why not give a listen outside of that bubble? That is what I do and it better helps me digest news from the mainstream media because they DO lie by omission, they DO skew stories, they DO play favorites, and they hide things quite cleverly all of which leaves me questioning why? But hey that is me and my view and if you find me too troublesome to deal with then that is fine I'll leave you be.
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

  15. #240
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    Default Re: Corbyn attacker get 28 days in prison, Robinson attacked and police do nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    My questions (which still remain unanswered) are as follows:
    1. What am I "outraged" about specifically?
    2. To whom do I look outraged?
    3. Why are Tommy Robinson & Carl Benjamin called "fascists"? (note that the question never accuses you personally of calling them that, but folks on your side certainly use the term often and I would like to know why so I can better understand their view)
    4. (I'll lump all these together as they are in the same vein) Is the culture not rapidly changing? Is there not massive immigration? If all cultures ARE equal and beautiful and brilliant then what of the English culture? Is that not worth protecting?


    5. How have I 'cheapened the entire concept of free speech'? which was a reference to your direct quote which was:
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanz
    Do you not think it strange when you and Carl speak about Free speech it is in a way that cheapens and makes the concept worthless?
    6. You also accused me (and Carl Benjamin) of both "shutting down the right of reply" and "telling people what they should feel" so I politely asked: Who is doing that? How are they doing it? I also asked "I can't force people to feel feelings can I?" which in this case would best be worded in question form as: Do you believe I can force people to feel feelings against their will?
    7. (again I'll group these) What makes him(Carl Benjamin) a cunt? What has he (Carl) done specifically to draw your ire? What have I lied about? What has he (Carl) lied about? I'm searching my mind to figure this out. Do I use the same tactics?


    I don't feel as though the questions asked were all that horrible given the apparent vitriol you still have for me. I've been quite patient and chalked up the tone of your posts to my misunderstanding the tone in which you feel you are writing....you've never addressed that which leads me to believe more that the tone you've written in is quite on purpose and therefore you're no longer operating on friendly terms with me. Which hell that's certainly your prerogative, but I'm not going to be belligerent with you and if you want to have a civil discussion then perhaps you'll correct yourself, but that's entirely up to you.


    Now then, I shall address the post which you believe answered all of my questions. I do hope this is not a futile gesture, I continue to act in good faith treating you in a friendly manner and making no assumptions of you or your character which is why of course I must ask questions and gather that information in order to respond appropriately as my goal is to better understand you and your way of thinking and that is made rather difficult when you refuse to respond to simple honest questions or you respond with mordancy.
    They have all been answered you just want to dictate to me what the answers should be. Look how you have people numbering questions now as though people have to jump thru hoops for you. And now you want to dictate style to me. If i choose to employ mordancy please do not take it personally or tell me to be less incisive. That just makes the whole free speech thing look fake. It's language that is all. If I thought you were a cunt do you not think giving my language and history I would not come straight out and tell you?

    1. You are outraged that people can be offended. That puts you firmly on the same side of the fence as people who manufacture outrage . You should not be surprised that people can be offended and certainly not employ the same tactics or justify people like Benjamin becoming professional victims.

    2. Everyone in the Universe. Nobody. Who cares? If you want to be outraged that is your call but there is an awful lot out there that will push your buttons, whoever you are. Is that the kind of stress you want in your life?

    3. Because they put nationhood above the individual. This again is another example of people pressing the outrage button when they do not like people exercising the same free speech they employ to not only offend but encourage and motivate other people into repeating and expounding their rhetoric. They hate being called fascists because they think that they are not the Devil incarnate. They forget that the Fascists of Spain and Italy were clever idealists who mobilised citizens into a movement that it's members thought haled lofty ideals that would be good for their country. Like traditional fascists Robinson and Benjamin misrepresent their opponents. They use the same language of discrimination that their critics employ to claim the position of victimhood. These are people who wish to ban universtity courses they do not agree with and turn back womens, black and gay rights in order to avoid giving up their own radical right wing authoritarianism.

    They share the same overriding motivation that fascists have of wanting to install an overriding power that will remove the rights of individuals. They believe in things such as too much civilization. They believe it will lead to decadence and so reject great cultural milestones like the Enlightenment preferring to advocate a divine hierarchy where a charasmatic leader is in place for racially pure peasants to follow. ( Look up Stoecker, Böckel, and Fritsch for more on this)

    Often like Hitler they never hold an electoral majority but are swept into power by conservatives. They will use racial and ethnic scapegoating and tie in things like feminism with Jews and weakness.

    I could go on.

    Fascism did not start and end with Hitler and the Nazis and you do not need to be anti-Semitic to be a fascist.

    4. English culture is only one part of British culture and English culture itself has often not only been protected by foreigners and cultural ethnic groups from outside it, but can only be defined by it's history which is ALL about immigration. To pretend you can define it in any other meaningful way is not only ignorant but deeply unpatriotic. If a culture is not rapidly changing, then it is dead, however uncomfortable that may be to contemplate. Mass Immigration is a result of actions taken by countries now moaning about it. It is a fact of life on Planet earth that we will roam and you can pretend you have more rights to a piece of land or a country than other people but it is an illusory concept like money. How do you define English culture do I get to define it or does Tommy? Or other posters here?

    I treasure English culture and history but I am not so blind to think it superior to all others just like the current version of Western civilization is not either. English culture itself is often not beautiful and brilliant and so I would not expect other cultures to be defined so narrowly and crudely.

    If i go into a mosque In London am I somehow less English then someone else who does not? What if i bend my knees in a Buddhist temple in Milton Keynes? what if i choose to make the call to prayer in Leeds or go to Synagogue in Exeter or Cornwall? What if i ask to not work on a Saturday am I less English then? What if I only eat hamburgers and wear a stetson and spend my weekends line dancing and playing at being a cowboy?

    If i am a practicing Catholic am I less English than a protestant?

    5. In the way you use free speech as a tool to defend those who would shut it down. You both use it like a cover all excuse for any kind of speech as though using it responsibly is not necessary. You deny that such a thing as hate speech exists even when it is employed to motivate people to kill based on scapegoating a race or ethnicity etc to justify that murder. If you really believed in Free speech you would welcome the idea of accepting it can be misused and has power.

    6. Yes. ...

    Of course you can force people to feel feelings. That is why speech is so powerful. You can make people afraid or excited, depressed, turned on, sickened, etc

    Words are not just words and never were

    CUNTY KONT FUCKKITY CRAPSHITTER WANKSTAIN DANGLEBERRIES

    Not you so much but Benjamin shuts down the right to reply by editing his videos to portray those he is critical of in a way that is not representative of their position at all. His disciples do it on her all the time. So i can even say in a thread I am not in favour of political correctness and believe you can joke about anything until I am blue in the face, but they (those who use his method) will still insist that I am MR Pc because it is an easy strawman to demolish even though it does not represent my views in anyway. So you will see I am called both a sponger and part of the media elite , an SJW and a racist, a fake Jew and a Gentile hater, a little Englander and in favour of mass immigration, etc


    7. I don't have any vitriol where you are concerned and I don't particularly have that much hate for Benjamin though he is without a doubt an arrogant and ignorant cunt. He loves to stick up for right wing wankers and then like Peterson call himself a classical liberal. What they both really mean is that their farts are too good for both the left and right and they inhabit some kind of intellectual and moral high ground others can only ever aspire to. Arseholes.

    I will let you know when I make an angry post and then maybe things will be a little clearer for everyone.
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