Thread: Why is Juan Manuel Marquez number 5 on the Saddo p4p Rankings?

Juan Manuel Marquez is way too high.

He's a very very good fighter and may well beat Barrera next month but he hasn't acheived it yet.

His best win was a draw against Pacquiao and he lost to Chris John, even if it was controversial.

If he beats Barrera then yes he's right there but at the moment I don't see how he deserves to be so high.

I mean his record isn't exactly riddled with star names, plus he has a recent loss. How can he possibly be above Calzaghe who has never lost, has been world champion for about 10 years, made more super middleweight defenses than any other fighter and was recently given the Ring belt for his acomplishments at 168lb?

Lets wait until next month before we place him amongst the top 5 elite.

Likewise Taylor, he's twice beat the at that time p4p number 1 fighter in the world and got a draw with the p4p number 2 or 3?

Again Marquez got a draw with the p4p 2 or 3 and lost to Chris John?

He might just about be in the top 10 right now, but certainly below Calzaghe, below Taylor and probably even below Hatton.

The Ring magazine have got it pretty much right I think.

http://www.thering-online.com/ringpages/ratings2.html

1. Mayweather

2. Pacqiuao

3. Wright

4. Taylor

5. Hopkins

6. Barrera

7. R Marquez

8. Calzaghe

9. Hatton

10. Cotto

Yea I agree with you.. JMM hasn't fought an elite fighter since Manny Pac, which was in mid 2004... I personally try to weigh who I think is actually a better fighter over the what have you done for me lately approach, but even still JMM simply hasn't been active against good fighters and there's no way to speculate whether he is better than those you mentioned.. I mean for him to be above Bernard Hopkins is ludicrous. Really, it is. Hopkins was p4p #1!, almost a year after Marquez drew with Pac, and since then has, (imo) gone 1-1 with Taylor, but either way extremely close fights, then moved up 2 weights to beat the ring's #8 p4p guy.. And now he is suddenly behind someone who drew with Pac a year before he lost to Taylor and hasn't fought a world class fighter since. It's all a bit silly imo. So is having Castillo or Hatton above Hopkins.

Originally Posted by p4pking

Yea I agree with you.. JMM hasn't fought an elite fighter since Manny Pac, which was in mid 2004... I personally try to weigh who I think is actually a better fighter over the what have you done for me lately approach, but even still JMM simply hasn't been active against good fighters and there's no way to speculate whether he is better than those you mentioned.. I mean for him to be above Bernard Hopkins is ludicrous. Really, it is. Hopkins was p4p #1!, almost a year after Marquez drew with Pac, and since then has, (imo) gone 1-1 with Taylor, but either way extremely close fights, then moved up 2 weights to beat the ring's #8 p4p guy.. And now he is suddenly behind someone who drew with Pac a year before he lost to Taylor and hasn't fought a world class fighter since. It's all a bit silly imo. So is having Castillo or Hatton above Hopkins.

for the voice of sanity. It's just a shame that some of the young whippersnappers on this site, mentioning no names El Gamo fail to appreciate Hopkins acheivement or Jermain Taylor's for that matter.

Originally Posted by bilbo

Originally Posted by p4pking

Yea I agree with you.. JMM hasn't fought an elite fighter since Manny Pac, which was in mid 2004... I personally try to weigh who I think is actually a better fighter over the what have you done for me lately approach, but even still JMM simply hasn't been active against good fighters and there's no way to speculate whether he is better than those you mentioned.. I mean for him to be above Bernard Hopkins is ludicrous. Really, it is. Hopkins was p4p #1!, almost a year after Marquez drew with Pac, and since then has, (imo) gone 1-1 with Taylor, but either way extremely close fights, then moved up 2 weights to beat the ring's #8 p4p guy.. And now he is suddenly behind someone who drew with Pac a year before he lost to Taylor and hasn't fought a world class fighter since. It's all a bit silly imo. So is having Castillo or Hatton above Hopkins.

for the voice of sanity. It's just a shame that some of the young whippersnappers on this site, mentioning no names El Gamo fail to appreciate Hopkins acheivement or Jermain Taylor's for that matter.

He's just trying to eliminate everyone on the top 10 p4p so one day he can try to justify putting Margarito on there

i think the reason why jmm is place at that rank is because us (saddo members) voted him there. the veteran fans have for years appreciated jmm for his masterfull boxing skills, but yes i agree his accomplishment isn't deserving above the bhop or even the young accomplish j.t...but i think his rank has base on his masterfull showing of boxing skills, but then again since his fight with pac, he hasn't been the same masterfull boxer, and he has only gotten older(not better).

but jmm isn't the only one to be question on the list, anyone can pretty much come up with an arguement against or for a fighter. i think the top 3 p4p figher is solid but the order is still argueable. and from 3rd to infinitely its just a total mess.

imo bhop stay top 5 (because he just conquer the lightheavyweight division winning over division king tarver in a fasion true greats do)due to j.t getting two wins over him, jt deserves 4th place.

after 5th it is very hard to know who goes where actually its hard from 1 to infinitely but atleast most of us have pac winky pbf as top three.

as for hatton and joe.C, if anyone list them top ten cotto should be in right with them and so should sugar shane, and mab and jmm somehow stays in the mix of the rankings.

Originally Posted by BoxingGod

i think the reason why jmm is place at that rank is because us (saddo members) voted him there. the veteran fans have for years appreciated jmm for his masterfull boxing skills, but yes i agree his accomplishment isn't deserving above the bhop or even the young accomplish j.t...but i think his rank has base on his masterfull showing of boxing skills, but then again since his fight with pac, he hasn't been the same masterfull boxer, and he has only gotten older(not better).

but jmm isn't the only one to be question on the list, anyone can pretty much come up with an arguement against or for a fighter. i think the top 3 p4p figher is solid but the order is still argueable. and from 3rd to infinitely its just a total mess.

imo bhop stay top 5 (because he just conquer the lightheavyweight division winning over division king tarver in a fasion true greats do)due to j.t getting two wins over him, jt deserves 4th place.

after 5th it is very hard to know who goes where actually its hard from 1 to infinitely but atleast most of us have pac winky pbf as top three.

as for hatton and joe.C, if anyone list them top ten cotto should be in right with them and so should sugar shane, and mab and jmm somehow stays in the mix of the rankings.

I'm all for replacing Hatton with Mosely. Calzaghe has earned his spot in my opinion, currently the longest reigning world champion at any weight with the most title defenses and still unbeaten.

I don't know enough about R Marquez but I think he's a bit high too, I don't see what he's done that Isreal Vasquez hasn't and I certainly don't have Isreal Vasquez as top 10 pound for pound.

Skillwise, he's great, but if you use accomplishments as a basis for a P4P list, then its giving him a pass to have him that high. I'm a fan but he doesn't have a big win. Even if you think he won the Pac fight, I thought Pac edged it out, its officially a draw and definitely not some kind of robbery.

Originally Posted by bilbo

Juan Manuel Marquez is way too high.

He's a very very good fighter and may well beat Barrera next month but he hasn't acheived it yet.

His best win was a draw against Pacquiao and he lost to Chris John, even if it was controversial.

If he beats Barrera then yes he's right there but at the moment I don't see how he deserves to be so high.

I mean his record isn't exactly riddled with star names, plus he has a recent loss. How can he possibly be above Calzaghe who has never lost, has been world champion for about 10 years, made more super middleweight defenses than any other fighter and was recently given the Ring belt for his acomplishments at 168lb?

Lets wait until next month before we place him amongst the top 5 elite.

Likewise Taylor, he's twice beat the at that time p4p number 1 fighter in the world and got a draw with the p4p number 2 or 3?

Again Marquez got a draw with the p4p 2 or 3 and lost to Chris John?

He might just about be in the top 10 right now, but certainly below Calzaghe, below Taylor and probably even below Hatton.

Dont even worry about him beating barrera hes going to completely outbox barrera i will be very surprised if the fight is pretty close but i doubt it will.

Let me guess you feel R. Marquez does not belong that high up because you have not seen enough of him? It is Hatton that does not belong !!! But wait ,you have seen enough of him as we all have by this media generated paper champ. R. Marquez has actually surpassed his brother in talent and production. Barrera has no business being on the list. After seeing Mosley this past week it is just 1-2 fights away from returning to the list.

Originally Posted by bilbo

Originally Posted by BoxingGod

i think the reason why jmm is place at that rank is because us (saddo members) voted him there. the veteran fans have for years appreciated jmm for his masterfull boxing skills, but yes i agree his accomplishment isn't deserving above the bhop or even the young accomplish j.t...but i think his rank has base on his masterfull showing of boxing skills, but then again since his fight with pac, he hasn't been the same masterfull boxer, and he has only gotten older(not better).

but jmm isn't the only one to be question on the list, anyone can pretty much come up with an arguement against or for a fighter. i think the top 3 p4p figher is solid but the order is still argueable. and from 3rd to infinitely its just a total mess.

imo bhop stay top 5 (because he just conquer the lightheavyweight division winning over division king tarver in a fasion true greats do)due to j.t getting two wins over him, jt deserves 4th place.

after 5th it is very hard to know who goes where actually its hard from 1 to infinitely but atleast most of us have pac winky pbf as top three.

as for hatton and joe.C, if anyone list them top ten cotto should be in right with them and so should sugar shane, and mab and jmm somehow stays in the mix of the rankings.

I'm all for replacing Hatton with Mosely. Calzaghe has earned his spot in my opinion, currently the longest reigning world champion at any weight with the most title defenses and still unbeaten.

I don't know enough about R Marquez but I think he's a bit high too, I don't see what he's done that Isreal Vasquez hasn't and I certainly don't have Isreal Vasquez as top 10 pound for pound.

Originally Posted by bilbo

The Ring magazine have got it pretty much right I think.

http://www.thering-online.com/ringpages/ratings2.html

1. Mayweather

2. Pacqiuao

3. Wright

4. Taylor

5. Hopkins

6. Barrera

7. R Marquez

8. Calzaghe

9. Hatton

10. Cotto

How you going to complain about Marquez, yet got no problem with Calzaghe being listed extremely too high?

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Originally Posted by bilbo

The Ring magazine have got it pretty much right I think.

http://www.thering-online.com/ringpages/ratings2.html

1. Mayweather

2. Pacqiuao

3. Wright

4. Taylor

5. Hopkins

6. Barrera

7. R Marquez

8. Calzaghe

9. Hatton

10. Cotto

How you going to complain about Marquez, yet got no problem with Calzaghe being listed extremely too high?

Well Joe has never lost a fight, he's been reigning champion for longer than anybody else boxing in any division and last year became the only super middleweight in history to be given a Ring belt.

He's earned his spot. JMM has lost, and recently as well. His biggest ever fight he got a draw and he's got no big wins over marquee fighters.

Don't get me wrong, he's a great fighter and could well beat Barrera next month. If he does, he deserves to be the p4p no question but until then he's just not done enough.

Originally Posted by bilbo

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Originally Posted by bilbo

The Ring magazine have got it pretty much right I think.

http://www.thering-online.com/ringpages/ratings2.html

1. Mayweather

2. Pacqiuao

3. Wright

4. Taylor

5. Hopkins

6. Barrera

7. R Marquez

8. Calzaghe

9. Hatton

10. Cotto

How you going to complain about Marquez, yet got no problem with Calzaghe being listed extremely too high?

Well Joe has never lost a fight, he's been reigning champion for longer than anybody else boxing in any division and last year became the only super middleweight in history to be given a Ring belt.

He's earned his spot. JMM has lost, and recently as well. His biggest ever fight he got a draw and he's got no big wins over marquee fighters.

Don't get me wrong, he's a great fighter and could well beat Barrera next month. If he does, he deserves to be the p4p no question but until then he's just not done enough.

Best names on Joe's resume are old shot fighters and one young, highly overrated fighter. And it's easy to stay undefeated with the garbage fighters Calzaghe calls opponents. He shouldn't be rewarded for it.

P4Pking,Bilbo

I've never said JMM should be so high,he's lower in my list,Ihave Rafa ahead of JMM but anyway,he has beaten most he has fought,all his losses have been contraversial.You make valid points but to say I don't acknowledge Hopkins achievements is silly,but I don't see how you can have JT below Hopkins if he beat Hopkins twice and JT CERTainNLY deserves to be there,I've NEVER questioned that.You have to remember,Marquez has been a masterful boxer,and has beaten alot of good rather than great fighters but all this will be academic when he beats MAB.

Originally Posted by bilbo

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Originally Posted by bilbo

The Ring magazine have got it pretty much right I think.

http://www.thering-online.com/ringpages/ratings2.html

1. Mayweather

2. Pacqiuao

3. Wright

4. Taylor

5. Hopkins

6. Barrera

7. R Marquez

8. Calzaghe

9. Hatton

10. Cotto

How you going to complain about Marquez, yet got no problem with Calzaghe being listed extremely too high?

Well Joe has never lost a fight, he's been reigning champion for longer than anybody else boxing in any division and last year became the only super middleweight in history to be given a Ring belt.

He's earned his spot. JMM has lost, and recently as well. His biggest ever fight he got a draw and he's got no big wins over marquee fighters.

Don't get me wrong, he's a great fighter and could well beat Barrera next month. If he does, he deserves to be the p4p no question but until then he's just not done enough.

I am the last Brit boxing follower in the world as you will see the Benny Hill and Ricky Hatton are omitted. My list is based on merit not press releases !



1. Pacquiao (beneficiary of legendary Mexicans beating the $hit out of each other, gets and mops up the sloppy seconds and the hype follows.

2. Calzaghe - undefeated and laced Lacy silly !!

3. Mayweather (finally gets a live opponent in May) Get ready for shocking May results not in his favor.

3. Wright - #1 in terms of boring

4. Hopkins - just good, may lose it all any day without notice

5. R. Marquez - In a dangerous fight with Israel, great boxer /puncher/finisher

6. JM Marquez - will get more miles on his career in a slug fest with Barrera, then fed to Pacqiao. Needs to avoid Pac Man for 1 fight to
recover. Jumping into a Pac fight favors Pac.

7. Taylor - no power or discipline , and little competition

8. Mosley - Hatton in R.I.P. if you somehow surpass my expectations of you in the Castillo fight, Mosley will finish you and render the
posters in here helpless.

9. Arce - waiting to brick the Vic

10. Miranda - forget all the Cotto press