Thread: Margarito resurfaces!!!!

http://www.fightnews.com/leon39.htm

Ths fight really brngs a smile to Gamo's face. I thought Margarito was done but he is most certainly here to stay and sooner or later,he will rematch that slapping bitch Williams and if he lives up to his promise to start earlier,he will win. But first things first,bring on Cintron!

There is nothing for Williams to gain by taking a rematch at this point. He won the first fight pretty clearly as far as I'm concerned. There is simply no criteria under which Margarito could have possibly won more than 5 rounds. If Margarito can lift the IBF belt from Cintron, then there will be some incentive for Williams to take a rematch. I don't see a rematch between Williams-Margarito as going much different. Williams will win again by UD. Personally, I would rather see Cintron and Williams get it on.

That "slapping bitch Williams"


Williams will turn out to be a tough nut for anyone in this division. Margarito needs to wait in line. He lost convincingly.

Furthermore, I love how people say the Williams was just slapping his punches as if they did not hurt Tony. If the blows weren't stinging Margarito, why didn't he just plow through Williams and take him out?

Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody

Furthermore, I love how people say the Williams was just slapping his punches as if they did not hurt Tony. If the blows weren't stinging Margarito, why didn't he just plow through Williams and take him out?

Agreed. It isnt as though Williams utilised his reach to his own natural advantages the whole time anyways. If he did then he would be nigh on unhittable!

Originally Posted by miles

That "slapping bitch Williams"


Williams will turn out to be a tough nut for anyone in this division. Margarito needs to wait in line. He lost convincingly.

I agree 100%. Mayweather aside, Paul Williams is the man to beat in this division. Too bad he is still not much of a draw. But give him time, he'll get there.

Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody

There is nothing for Williams to gain by taking a rematch at this point. He won the first fight pretty clearly as far as I'm concerned. There is simply no criteria under which Margarito could have possibly won more than 5 rounds. If Margarito can lift the IBF belt from Cintron, then there will be some incentive for Williams to take a rematch. I don't see a rematch between Williams-Margarito as going much different. Williams will win again by UD. Personally, I would rather see Cintron and Williams get it on.

Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody

Furthermore, I love how people say the Williams was just slapping his punches as if they did not hurt Tony. If the blows weren't stinging Margarito, why didn't he just plow through Williams and take him out?

Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.

As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.

I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.

If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.

Originally Posted by miles

That "slapping bitch Williams"


Williams will turn out to be a tough nut for anyone in this division. Margarito needs to wait in line. He lost convincingly.

Williams will definitely be tough for some of the guys at WW but after watching the fight on qite a few occasions,I don't think he'l be as difficult to beat as I initially thought.

Secondly,Margarito should not have to wait in line for anyone. He was champ for 7 years. He went to court to get the fight. PW should and was grateful for the fight,the least he can do is,at some point,rematch Tony. Finally,there are fighters around that get KTFO and get rematches,this was a close affair. Margarito should definitely get a rematch at some point.

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody

There is nothing for Williams to gain by taking a rematch at this point. He won the first fight pretty clearly as far as I'm concerned. There is simply no criteria under which Margarito could have possibly won more than 5 rounds. If Margarito can lift the IBF belt from Cintron, then there will be some incentive for Williams to take a rematch. I don't see a rematch between Williams-Margarito as going much different. Williams will win again by UD. Personally, I would rather see Cintron and Williams get it on.

Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody

Furthermore, I love how people say the Williams was just slapping his punches as if they did not hurt Tony. If the blows weren't stinging Margarito, why didn't he just plow through Williams and take him out?

Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.

As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.

I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.

If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.

Originally Posted by miles

That "slapping bitch Williams"


Williams will turn out to be a tough nut for anyone in this division. Margarito needs to wait in line. He lost convincingly.

Williams will definitely be tough for some of the guys at WW but after watching the fight on qite a few occasions,I don't think he'l be as difficult to beat as I initially thought.

Secondly,Margarito should not have to wait in line for anyone. He was champ for 7 years. He went to court to get the fight. PW should and was grateful for the fight,the least he can do is,at some point,rematch Tony. Finally,there are fighters around that get KTFO and get rematches,this was a close affair. Margarito should definitely get a rematch at some point.

"Finally,there are fighters around that get KTFO and get rematches" being a smartass, El Gamo? Are you referring to Wlad Klitschko here?

Margarito lost the fight decisively to anyone who can score a fight. Dont rely on press row so much. Margarito won that fight in no sensible scorers eyes. Welterweight is a rich division and Margarito is a guy who has just been beaten and needs to work to build his way up again.














































He should possibly wait 4 years.

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.

As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.

I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.

If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.

On your first paragraph: I thought Williams won the first 6 rounds fairly handedly. I think some gave Tony the 5th, but to me that was just a result of the crowd starting to get into it because that was the first round Tony landed anything of substance, but Williams still out worked him and controlled that round. As I said, Williams' camp doesn't want a rematch because there is little to gain at this point. It is not a big money fight right now, and beating him a second time is not going to help him much as far as getting a bigger fight. Why his camp won't fight Cintron at this point, I'm not sure. There is a lot to gain. The winner would be a unified champ, thus making them more attractive to the bigger names. It may be because the risk/reward does not balance out right now from a money perspective. It probably is not a big money fight yet, and so the payoff is not is probably not worth the risk (in their view) at this point. Honestly, I think Cintron is the one guy in the division with the best shot to beat Williams. He a big guy and throws hard, straight punches. He's really the only guy I could see knocking out Williams. To me, that is the only way to get Williams at 147. I can't see him losing a decision to anyone with his work rate and stamina. He took Margarito's best shots in the 11th and never buckled or stopped throwing punches, so I really don't think Tony can knock him out. It would take a cuts stoppage or something along those lines, IMHO.

Second paragraph: Tony ALWAYS starts slow. I don't seee how he will avoid that in a second bout. To me, what started to turn the tide a bit in the second half was not a better strategy from Margarito, but rather Williams started to get a little bit tired (he has remarkable stamina, but with that kind of work rate some level of fatigue is unavoidable). That gave Tony a few extra openings. I think as long as Williams is fresh Margarito will have trouble getting offeffective shots.

Third paragraph: I disagree his shots were far harder. The crowd going crazy put aside, Williams was not close to being stopped in that 11th as his legs never really buckled and he never stopped throwing punches. The were solid, stinging shots, but he throws them too wide to get maximum power. You could see Margarito was gassed from the effort in the 11th and Williams took the final round easily. I also don't buy that Williams' punches didn't bother Margarito a great deal. Like I said, if that were the case Margarito would have just walked threw the blows and taken him out.

Fourth paragraph: I don't give Margarito much credit for defense for this reason: Williams' offense isn't designed to land a high percentage of blows. Even against lesser foes he normally only lands around 30% of his shots. The point of his offense is to dictate the pace of the fight and to wear down the opponents via both the accumulation of the blows and the effort needed to fend off the blows. This is the reason I say Williams won fairly handedly. He had the higher work rate, dictated the action of the fight (remember, Margarito is normally a high volume puncher himself...he only got off 571 shots in the fight), landed more punches, landed more power shots, won in terms of ring generalship fairly clearly. Tony landed only a slightly better percentage than Williams (they were both under 30%). He may have landed the harder blows, but there simply weren't enough of them landed except in that 11th round. Anyway, just my view. That isn't to say a rematch might not be in order down the line, but in order to make it worth Williams' while Margarito needs to get at least one impressive win under his belt (a win over Cintron might do the trick, especially since it would give Williams the chance to unify belts).

Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.

As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.

I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.

If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.

On your first paragraph: I thought Williams won the first 6 rounds fairly handedly. I think some gave Tony the 5th, but to me that was just a result of the crowd starting to get into it because that was the first round Tony landed anything of substance, but Williams still out worked him and controlled that round. As I said, Williams' camp doesn't want a rematch because there is little to gain at this point. It is not a big money fight right now, and beating him a second time is not going to help him much as far as getting a bigger fight. Why his camp won't fight Cintron at this point, I'm not sure. There is a lot to gain. The winner would be a unified champ, thus making them more attractive to the bigger names. It may be because the risk/reward does not balance out right now from a money perspective. It probably is not a big money fight yet, and so the payoff is not is probably not worth the risk (in their view) at this point. Honestly, I think Cintron is the one guy in the division with the best shot to beat Williams. He a big guy and throws hard, straight punches. He's really the only guy I could see knocking out Williams. To me, that is the only way to get Williams at 147. I can't see him losing a decision to anyone with his work rate and stamina. He took Margarito's best shots in the 11th and never buckled or stopped throwing punches, so I really don't think Tony can knock him out. It would take a cuts stoppage or something along those lines, IMHO.

Second paragraph: Tony ALWAYS starts slow. I don't seee how he will avoid that in a second bout. To me, what started to turn the tide a bit in the second half was not a better strategy from Margarito, but rather Williams started to get a little bit tired (he has remarkable stamina, but with that kind of work rate some level of fatigue is unavoidable). That gave Tony a few extra openings. I think as long as Williams is fresh Margarito will have trouble getting offeffective shots.

Third paragraph: I disagree his shots were far harder. The crowd going crazy put aside, Williams was not close to being stopped in that 11th as his legs never really buckled and he never stopped throwing punches. The were solid, stinging shots, but he throws them too wide to get maximum power. You could see Margarito was gassed from the effort in the 11th and Williams took the final round easily. I also don't buy that Williams' punches didn't bother Margarito a great deal. Like I said, if that were the case Margarito would have just walked threw the blows and taken him out.

Fourth paragraph: I don't give Margarito much credit for defense for this reason: Williams' offense isn't designed to land a high percentage of blows. Even against lesser foes he normally only lands around 30% of his shots. The point of his offense is to dictate the pace of the fight and to wear down the opponents via both the accumulation of the blows and the effort needed to fend off the blows. This is the reason I say Williams won fairly handedly. He had the higher work rate, dictated the action of the fight (remember, Margarito is normally a high volume puncher himself...he only got off 571 shots in the fight), landed more punches, landed more power shots, won in terms of ring generalship fairly clearly. Tony landed only a slightly better percentage than Williams (they were both under 30%). He may have landed the harder blows, but there simply weren't enough of them landed except in that 11th round. Anyway, just my view. That isn't to say a rematch might not be in order down the line, but in order to make it worth Williams' while Margarito needs to get at least one impressive win under his belt (a win over Cintron might do the trick, especially since it would give Williams the chance to unify belts).

You owned the thread. , for a quality posting.

Spot on

Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.

As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.

I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.

If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.

On your first paragraph: I thought Williams won the first 6 rounds fairly handedly. I think some gave Tony the 5th, but to me that was just a result of the crowd starting to get into it because that was the first round Tony landed anything of substance, but Williams still out worked him and controlled that round. As I said, Williams' camp doesn't want a rematch because there is little to gain at this point. It is not a big money fight right now, and beating him a second time is not going to help him much as far as getting a bigger fight. Why his camp won't fight Cintron at this point, I'm not sure. There is a lot to gain. The winner would be a unified champ, thus making them more attractive to the bigger names. It may be because the risk/reward does not balance out right now from a money perspective. It probably is not a big money fight yet, and so the payoff is not is probably not worth the risk (in their view) at this point. Honestly, I think Cintron is the one guy in the division with the best shot to beat Williams. He a big guy and throws hard, straight punches. He's really the only guy I could see knocking out Williams. To me, that is the only way to get Williams at 147. I can't see him losing a decision to anyone with his work rate and stamina. He took Margarito's best shots in the 11th and never buckled or stopped throwing punches, so I really don't think Tony can knock him out. It would take a cuts stoppage or something along those lines, IMHO.

Second paragraph: Tony ALWAYS starts slow. I don't seee how he will avoid that in a second bout. To me, what started to turn the tide a bit in the second half was not a better strategy from Margarito, but rather Williams started to get a little bit tired (he has remarkable stamina, but with that kind of work rate some level of fatigue is unavoidable). That gave Tony a few extra openings. I think as long as Williams is fresh Margarito will have trouble getting offeffective shots.

Third paragraph: I disagree his shots were far harder. The crowd going crazy put aside, Williams was not close to being stopped in that 11th as his legs never really buckled and he never stopped throwing punches. The were solid, stinging shots, but he throws them too wide to get maximum power. You could see Margarito was gassed from the effort in the 11th and Williams took the final round easily. I also don't buy that Williams' punches didn't bother Margarito a great deal. Like I said, if that were the case Margarito would have just walked threw the blows and taken him out.

Fourth paragraph: I don't give Margarito much credit for defense for this reason: Williams' offense isn't designed to land a high percentage of blows. Even against lesser foes he normally only lands around 30% of his shots. The point of his offense is to dictate the pace of the fight and to wear down the opponents via both the accumulation of the blows and the effort needed to fend off the blows. This is the reason I say Williams won fairly handedly. He had the higher work rate, dictated the action of the fight (remember, Margarito is normally a high volume puncher himself...he only got off 571 shots in the fight), landed more punches, landed more power shots, won in terms of ring generalship fairly clearly. Tony landed only a slightly better percentage than Williams (they were both under 30%). He may have landed the harder blows, but there simply weren't enough of them landed except in that 11th round. Anyway, just my view. That isn't to say a rematch might not be in order down the line, but in order to make it worth Williams' while Margarito needs to get at least one impressive win under his belt (a win over Cintron might do the trick, especially since it would give Williams the chance to unify belts).

CC, way to set things straight.

Originally Posted by miles

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody

There is nothing for Williams to gain by taking a rematch at this point. He won the first fight pretty clearly as far as I'm concerned. There is simply no criteria under which Margarito could have possibly won more than 5 rounds. If Margarito can lift the IBF belt from Cintron, then there will be some incentive for Williams to take a rematch. I don't see a rematch between Williams-Margarito as going much different. Williams will win again by UD. Personally, I would rather see Cintron and Williams get it on.

Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody

Furthermore, I love how people say the Williams was just slapping his punches as if they did not hurt Tony. If the blows weren't stinging Margarito, why didn't he just plow through Williams and take him out?

Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.

As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.

I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.

If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.

Originally Posted by miles

That "slapping bitch Williams"


Williams will turn out to be a tough nut for anyone in this division. Margarito needs to wait in line. He lost convincingly.

Williams will definitely be tough for some of the guys at WW but after watching the fight on qite a few occasions,I don't think he'l be as difficult to beat as I initially thought.

Secondly,Margarito should not have to wait in line for anyone. He was champ for 7 years. He went to court to get the fight. PW should and was grateful for the fight,the least he can do is,at some point,rematch Tony. Finally,there are fighters around that get KTFO and get rematches,this was a close affair. Margarito should definitely get a rematch at some point.

"Finally,there are fighters around that get KTFO and get rematches" being a smartass, El Gamo? Are you referring to Wlad Klitschko here?

Margarito lost the fight decisively to anyone who can score a fight. Dont rely on press row so much. Margarito won that fight in no sensible scorers eyes. Welterweight is a rich division and Margarito is a guy who has just been beaten and needs to work to build his way up again.














































He should possibly wait 4 years.

Well the press row scorers were ringside so maybe they had a better view of things. And it is a rich division but again,like I said,the PW camp don't want Kermit and they don't want Tony,everyone else is tied up and Margarito gave him a shot. Margarito doesn't need to build back up to anything.

Originally Posted by miles

Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.

As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.

I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.

If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.

On your first paragraph: I thought Williams won the first 6 rounds fairly handedly. I think some gave Tony the 5th, but to me that was just a result of the crowd starting to get into it because that was the first round Tony landed anything of substance, but Williams still out worked him and controlled that round. As I said, Williams' camp doesn't want a rematch because there is little to gain at this point. It is not a big money fight right now, and beating him a second time is not going to help him much as far as getting a bigger fight. Why his camp won't fight Cintron at this point, I'm not sure. There is a lot to gain. The winner would be a unified champ, thus making them more attractive to the bigger names. It may be because the risk/reward does not balance out right now from a money perspective. It probably is not a big money fight yet, and so the payoff is not is probably not worth the risk (in their view) at this point. Honestly, I think Cintron is the one guy in the division with the best shot to beat Williams. He a big guy and throws hard, straight punches. He's really the only guy I could see knocking out Williams. To me, that is the only way to get Williams at 147. I can't see him losing a decision to anyone with his work rate and stamina. He took Margarito's best shots in the 11th and never buckled or stopped throwing punches, so I really don't think Tony can knock him out. It would take a cuts stoppage or something along those lines, IMHO.

Second paragraph: Tony ALWAYS starts slow. I don't seee how he will avoid that in a second bout. To me, what started to turn the tide a bit in the second half was not a better strategy from Margarito, but rather Williams started to get a little bit tired (he has remarkable stamina, but with that kind of work rate some level of fatigue is unavoidable). That gave Tony a few extra openings. I think as long as Williams is fresh Margarito will have trouble getting offeffective shots.

Third paragraph: I disagree his shots were far harder. The crowd going crazy put aside, Williams was not close to being stopped in that 11th as his legs never really buckled and he never stopped throwing punches. The were solid, stinging shots, but he throws them too wide to get maximum power. You could see Margarito was gassed from the effort in the 11th and Williams took the final round easily. I also don't buy that Williams' punches didn't bother Margarito a great deal. Like I said, if that were the case Margarito would have just walked threw the blows and taken him out.

Fourth paragraph: I don't give Margarito much credit for defense for this reason: Williams' offense isn't designed to land a high percentage of blows. Even against lesser foes he normally only lands around 30% of his shots. The point of his offense is to dictate the pace of the fight and to wear down the opponents via both the accumulation of the blows and the effort needed to fend off the blows. This is the reason I say Williams won fairly handedly. He had the higher work rate, dictated the action of the fight (remember, Margarito is normally a high volume puncher himself...he only got off 571 shots in the fight), landed more punches, landed more power shots, won in terms of ring generalship fairly clearly. Tony landed only a slightly better percentage than Williams (they were both under 30%). He may have landed the harder blows, but there simply weren't enough of them landed except in that 11th round. Anyway, just my view. That isn't to say a rematch might not be in order down the line, but in order to make it worth Williams' while Margarito needs to get at least one impressive win under his belt (a win over Cintron might do the trick, especially since it would give Williams the chance to unify belts).

You owned the thread. , for a quality posting.

Spot on

Calm down Miles,stop getting over excited. He made his points well as did I,neither of us got over excited and no-one owned anything.


Left Hook,Margarito does usually start slow but he sees its a problem,I'm sure he can address firstly and secondly,he doesn't start THAT slow.He actually stopped quite a few guys early like Kyvelos,6 heads,etc so he can get going quicker(I wish he had!) Also,I pointed out Margarito's defence because Williams,regardless of the purpose of his high output,was getting most of his punches blocked. This was part of Margarito's gameplan and that's why he didn't throw as many shots as he usually does. As for Williams punches,I just think that there were so many at the beginning that Margarito was taking time to adjust to them,in the rematch,he knows whats going to happen and so won't need that time. I also disagree,I think PW was at least a little hurt in the 11th but showed great heart to come back in the 12th. Finally,as for saying what does PW gain,well a good paycheck is one thing as Magarito is a good draw in that area. Second,and I know there is little of it around in boxing but he'll be doing an honourbale thing because Margarito went through the courts to fight him and so PW can at least return the favour. Thirdly,all the other top names are tied up so it's either fight Margarito(assuming Tony does not fight Cintron) or fight a no-name guy?

I certainly see your points and they are indeed valid but I think Margarito starting early,with more bodywork would have beaten PW and still can. It's also based on how you score fights. Sure PW was throwing more but if Margarito let his hands go more early on and even you acknowledged that he appeared to be heavier handed,then he can win. I mean the scorecards were close too soo another round here and there and Margarito can win the fight.

You have your opinion and I guess I have mine.I hope one day they meet again so we see who's right!

What would be the point of a rematch at this point, besides to satisfy the bruised ego of Margarito. Williams clearly won the fight and there wasn't any controversy besides the ones manufactured by Margarito fanboys. And I say fanboys because fans of Margarito know he lost but also know he put up a great show and will come back, fanboys are too obsessed with Margarito to see the difference.

Also judge the fight on its own merit. I hear people saying "if Margarito started faster" well if he did then we have a different fight don't we? If he started faster their is a chance he could of won, but a chance is far from a foregone conclusion. Who knows what other factors would have come in to play.

Williams went for volume of punches, Margarito went for power, in a fight where neither fighter went to the canvas landed more will probably win you the fight. Also neither fighter looked troubled at anytime in this fight.

Also shouldn't the true thorn in his flesh be Daniel Santos? Both times they fought a cut stopped the fight. One was ruled a No Contest and the second one was a Technical Decision for Daniel Santos. Seems to me that there is more history and controversy in their fights than with a clear cut win by Williams.

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody

There is nothing for Williams to gain by taking a rematch at this point. He won the first fight pretty clearly as far as I'm concerned. There is simply no criteria under which Margarito could have possibly won more than 5 rounds. If Margarito can lift the IBF belt from Cintron, then there will be some incentive for Williams to take a rematch. I don't see a rematch between Williams-Margarito as going much different. Williams will win again by UD. Personally, I would rather see Cintron and Williams get it on.

Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody

Furthermore, I love how people say the Williams was just slapping his punches as if they did not hurt Tony. If the blows weren't stinging Margarito, why didn't he just plow through Williams and take him out?

Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.

As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.

I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.

If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.

Originally Posted by miles

That "slapping bitch Williams"


Williams will turn out to be a tough nut for anyone in this division. Margarito needs to wait in line. He lost convincingly.

Williams will definitely be tough for some of the guys at WW but after watching the fight on qite a few occasions,I don't think he'l be as difficult to beat as I initially thought.

Secondly,Margarito should not have to wait in line for anyone. He was champ for 7 years. He went to court to get the fight. PW should and was grateful for the fight,the least he can do is,at some point,rematch Tony. Finally,there are fighters around that get KTFO and get rematches,this was a close affair. Margarito should definitely get a rematch at some point.

115-113 is being a bit generous to Margarito Williams won 12th round and i would pick Williams to win rematch he beat Margarito quite easily in terms of scoring i think Margarito was suprised to see someone outpunching him and it neutrilized Margaritos attack.

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Originally Posted by miles

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody

There is nothing for Williams to gain by taking a rematch at this point. He won the first fight pretty clearly as far as I'm concerned. There is simply no criteria under which Margarito could have possibly won more than 5 rounds. If Margarito can lift the IBF belt from Cintron, then there will be some incentive for Williams to take a rematch. I don't see a rematch between Williams-Margarito as going much different. Williams will win again by UD. Personally, I would rather see Cintron and Williams get it on.

Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody

Furthermore, I love how people say the Williams was just slapping his punches as if they did not hurt Tony. If the blows weren't stinging Margarito, why didn't he just plow through Williams and take him out?

Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.

As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.

I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.

If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.

Originally Posted by miles

That "slapping bitch Williams"


Williams will turn out to be a tough nut for anyone in this division. Margarito needs to wait in line. He lost convincingly.

Williams will definitely be tough for some of the guys at WW but after watching the fight on qite a few occasions,I don't think he'l be as difficult to beat as I initially thought.

Secondly,Margarito should not have to wait in line for anyone. He was champ for 7 years. He went to court to get the fight. PW should and was grateful for the fight,the least he can do is,at some point,rematch Tony. Finally,there are fighters around that get KTFO and get rematches,this was a close affair. Margarito should definitely get a rematch at some point.

"Finally,there are fighters around that get KTFO and get rematches" being a smartass, El Gamo? Are you referring to Wlad Klitschko here?

Margarito lost the fight decisively to anyone who can score a fight. Dont rely on press row so much. Margarito won that fight in no sensible scorers eyes. Welterweight is a rich division and Margarito is a guy who has just been beaten and needs to work to build his way up again.














































He should possibly wait 4 years.

Well the press row scorers were ringside so maybe they had a better view of things. And it is a rich division but again,like I said,the PW camp don't want Kermit and they don't want Tony,everyone else is tied up and Margarito gave him a shot. Margarito doesn't need to build back up to anything.

Originally Posted by miles

Originally Posted by LeftHookToTheBody

Originally Posted by El Gamo

Well,I had it 115-113 Williams but Margarito gave away the first 5 rounds. At least 4 press row scorers had the fight for Margarito. Williams camp does not want a rematch with Tony,not at the moment anyway and they don't want to fight Kermit as I've posted on many occasions so I guess PW just wants to stay out of the loop.

As to your second point,Margarito is known for being a slow started but this time,he was too slow and on top of that,he changed his game plan so rather than throw as many punches as PW did(which Margarito is fuly capable of),his team decided it would be better for him to pick and choose his sopts,counter and he did that well but only in the second half of the fight.

I'd certainly choose Margarito to win the rematch based on his showing when he did step it up and the fact that his punches were far harder throughout the fight,punctuated by the 11 the round. That by FAR and away the biggest round either fighter had.

If he starts earlier and applies more pressure,combined with his somewhat surprisingly good defence in the fight,he can win. His defence was very very good in the first half of the fight,he blocked ALOT of punhces,I mean PW's connect % was pretty low considering he was fighting a stationary target.

On your first paragraph: I thought Williams won the first 6 rounds fairly handedly. I think some gave Tony the 5th, but to me that was just a result of the crowd starting to get into it because that was the first round Tony landed anything of substance, but Williams still out worked him and controlled that round. As I said, Williams' camp doesn't want a rematch because there is little to gain at this point. It is not a big money fight right now, and beating him a second time is not going to help him much as far as getting a bigger fight. Why his camp won't fight Cintron at this point, I'm not sure. There is a lot to gain. The winner would be a unified champ, thus making them more attractive to the bigger names. It may be because the risk/reward does not balance out right now from a money perspective. It probably is not a big money fight yet, and so the payoff is not is probably not worth the risk (in their view) at this point. Honestly, I think Cintron is the one guy in the division with the best shot to beat Williams. He a big guy and throws hard, straight punches. He's really the only guy I could see knocking out Williams. To me, that is the only way to get Williams at 147. I can't see him losing a decision to anyone with his work rate and stamina. He took Margarito's best shots in the 11th and never buckled or stopped throwing punches, so I really don't think Tony can knock him out. It would take a cuts stoppage or something along those lines, IMHO.

Second paragraph: Tony ALWAYS starts slow. I don't seee how he will avoid that in a second bout. To me, what started to turn the tide a bit in the second half was not a better strategy from Margarito, but rather Williams started to get a little bit tired (he has remarkable stamina, but with that kind of work rate some level of fatigue is unavoidable). That gave Tony a few extra openings. I think as long as Williams is fresh Margarito will have trouble getting offeffective shots.

Third paragraph: I disagree his shots were far harder. The crowd going crazy put aside, Williams was not close to being stopped in that 11th as his legs never really buckled and he never stopped throwing punches. The were solid, stinging shots, but he throws them too wide to get maximum power. You could see Margarito was gassed from the effort in the 11th and Williams took the final round easily. I also don't buy that Williams' punches didn't bother Margarito a great deal. Like I said, if that were the case Margarito would have just walked threw the blows and taken him out.

Fourth paragraph: I don't give Margarito much credit for defense for this reason: Williams' offense isn't designed to land a high percentage of blows. Even against lesser foes he normally only lands around 30% of his shots. The point of his offense is to dictate the pace of the fight and to wear down the opponents via both the accumulation of the blows and the effort needed to fend off the blows. This is the reason I say Williams won fairly handedly. He had the higher work rate, dictated the action of the fight (remember, Margarito is normally a high volume puncher himself...he only got off 571 shots in the fight), landed more punches, landed more power shots, won in terms of ring generalship fairly clearly. Tony landed only a slightly better percentage than Williams (they were both under 30%). He may have landed the harder blows, but there simply weren't enough of them landed except in that 11th round. Anyway, just my view. That isn't to say a rematch might not be in order down the line, but in order to make it worth Williams' while Margarito needs to get at least one impressive win under his belt (a win over Cintron might do the trick, especially since it would give Williams the chance to unify belts).

You owned the thread. , for a quality posting.

Spot on

Calm down Miles,stop getting over excited. He made his points well as did I,neither of us got over excited and no-one owned anything.


Left Hook,Margarito does usually start slow but he sees its a problem,I'm sure he can address firstly and secondly,he doesn't start THAT slow.He actually stopped quite a few guys early like Kyvelos,6 heads,etc so he can get going quicker(I wish he had!) Also,I pointed out Margarito's defence because Williams,regardless of the purpose of his high output,was getting most of his punches blocked. This was part of Margarito's gameplan and that's why he didn't throw as many shots as he usually does. As for Williams punches,I just think that there were so many at the beginning that Margarito was taking time to adjust to them,in the rematch,he knows whats going to happen and so won't need that time. I also disagree,I think PW was at least a little hurt in the 11th but showed great heart to come back in the 12th. Finally,as for saying what does PW gain,well a good paycheck is one thing as Magarito is a good draw in that area. Second,and I know there is little of it around in boxing but he'll be doing an honourbale thing because Margarito went through the courts to fight him and so PW can at least return the favour. Thirdly,all the other top names are tied up so it's either fight Margarito(assuming Tony does not fight Cintron) or fight a no-name guy?

I certainly see your points and they are indeed valid but I think Margarito starting early,with more bodywork would have beaten PW and still can. It's also based on how you score fights. Sure PW was throwing more but if Margarito let his hands go more early on and even you acknowledged that he appeared to be heavier handed,then he can win. I mean the scorecards were close too soo another round here and there and Margarito can win the fight.

You have your opinion and I guess I have mine.I hope one day they meet again so we see who's right!

Well the press row scorers were ringside so maybe they had a better view of things.

How do they have better view than what we have on tele ?? and if they scored the fight for Margarito then they don't know how to score a fight because theres no way on earth Margarito won the fight.