Thread: Who benefits more from the delays of these 2 fights?

Let's discuss something about Pacquiao-Marquez II, and the hypothetical Mayweather-Cotto fight.

With Pacquiao-Marquez, for a number of reasons, it has taken 4 years for the rematch to finally happen. During those 4 years, each guy has changed weight classes and fought against notable opponents in competitive fights. Fighters obviously change over time, so neither is exactly the same as when he walked into the ring for the original meeting in 2004.

With Mayweather-Cotto, we were hoping/expecting that the fight would come off in 2008. Now, it won't happen at least until 2009, if it ever happens at all. Both guys will face other opponents before they face each other.

So my question is:
a. Who has benefitted more, Marquez or Pacquiao, from the 4 years off between their first fight and their rematch?

b. Who will benefit more, Mayweather or Cotto, from the delay of their potential upcoming showdown? (For the sake of this thread, let's assume they finally meetup in the Summer of 2009, or about 18 months from now.)

I have thoughts on both situations. I'll wait to see your responses, then I'll post mine in a little bit.

I think it always benefits the younger fighters the longer it takes to happen.(pac and cotto)

imo jmm will still have a whole lot more problems with pac then floyd will with cotto, it won't matter if it was just 4 months and not 4 years. pac speed and power will always cause problem but he was raw then and one demensional which gave jmm more of a chance of winning back then but now it has decrease as pac matured and jmm has been getting hit and if you look at his face after each fight since the first fight with pac. Jmm has been beaten up pretty bad although he does win. I think floyd would easily beat cotto a few years ago, now his still likely to beat him but to wait longer will only decrease floyds chance but increase cottos chance, like i said though jmm will have a whole lot more problems with pac regardless when they fight. Which means jmms chances decreases a whole lot quicker then floyds cause imo even if floyd cotto fight takes up til mid 2009, floyds chances still may have not been decrease enough or cottos chances haven't still increase enough. As floyd is a whole lot more likely to win then jmm is.

Originally Posted by SweetPea

a. Who has benefitted more, Marquez or Pacquiao, from the 4 years off between their first fight and their rematch?

IMO, Pacquiao benefits more, but maybe not as much as people might think. Marquez had just about solved Pacquiao after the second round of their first fight, so if they'd rematched a short time later, it would have been an easy fight for him.
So Pac would benefit more by default. But judging from his showing against Barrera, it doesn't look like Pacquiao has improved a whole lot as a boxer and I don't know if he even still has same explosiveness as a puncher. So unless Marquez has deteriorated over the years -- a possibility -- I think he'll still pull it out.

b. Who will benefit more, Mayweather or Cotto, from the delay of their potential upcoming showdown?

Maybe I'm just being contrarian, but Mayweather. Floyd doesn't need to be out there in front of HBO cameras to stay sharp or stay in shape -- he's one of the most intelligent and physically fit athletes in the sport. Meanwhile, if Cotto has more wars like his fights with Judah and Mosley, he'll be the one talking about needing a vacation.

a. Who has benefitted more, Marquez or Pacquiao, from the 4 years off between their first fight and their rematch?

Definitely Manny. JMM has aged alittle since then and has shown he is far more hittable than was the case four years ago.Manny has improved since then too. If there had been an immediate rematch,JMM schools Manny and wins comfortably imo. However,4 years later and takinginto account Manny's improved right hand and defence and JMM's very very fragile skin,Manny DEFINITELY benefits from this which is why,IF JMM wins,he goes to P4P number 1 for me.It would be a remarkable achievement as I think Manny is going to win and is going to be favourite too.

b. Who will benefit more, Mayweather or Cotto, from the delay of their potential upcoming showdown? (For the sake of this thread, let's assume they finally meetup in the Summer of 2009, or about 18 months from now.)

Depends.The general consensus would be Cotto but I take into account the fact that Cotto could very well fight Margarito/Williams/Clottey in that timespan,or certainly 2 of those 3.And I pick Margarito over him.So,hypothetically,if Tony were to beat him,I think it would or certainly could have a psychological effect on Miguel. Even if he were to win,these fights are not easy fights at all.

On the other hand,and the more popular thinking is,it would benefit Cotto.Cotto would be staying active,improving his skills whereas Floyd could very well be rusty by that point.

Originally Posted by El Gamo

a. Who has benefitted more, Marquez or Pacquiao, from the 4 years off between their first fight and their rematch?

Definitely Manny. JMM has aged alittle since then and has shown he is far more hittable than was the case four years ago.Manny has improved since then too. If there had been an immediate rematch,JMM schools Manny and wins comfortably imo. However,4 years later and takinginto account Manny's improved right hand and defence and JMM's very very fragile skin,Manny DEFINITELY benefits from this which is why,IF JMM wins,he goes to P4P number 1 for me.It would be a remarkable achievement as I think Manny is going to win and is going to be favourite too.

b. Who will benefit more, Mayweather or Cotto, from the delay of their potential upcoming showdown? (For the sake of this thread, let's assume they finally meetup in the Summer of 2009, or about 18 months from now.)

Depends.The general consensus would be Cotto but I take into account the fact that Cotto could very well fight Margarito/Williams/Clottey in that timespan,or certainly 2 of those 3.And I pick Margarito over him.So,hypothetically,if Tony were to beat him,I think it would or certainly could have a psychological effect on Miguel. Even if he were to win,these fights are not easy fights at all.

On the other hand,and the more popular thinking is,it would benefit Cotto.Cotto would be staying active,improving his skills whereas Floyd could very well be rusty by that point.

I agree with most of that, good points.. But I don't see how you can say that if JMM wins, you'll put him at p4p no.1.. Being a p4p guy isn't like winning a belt, it all depends on how the guy looks. If Marquez shows up looking fresher than ever and just puts on a clinic he may have a case for being no 1.. But what if Manny looks uninterested(like I though he did against MAB) and it's a dull fight, where JMM just squeeks out a SD or something. Regardless of what happens, Marquez will not be a better p4p fighter than Mayweather after he fights Pac. Both these guys deserve top 5 spots imo, and they are already recognized for being great p4p guys. But that doesn't change the fact that Floyd is that little bit better.

How does anyone not see Pacquaio's domination of Barrera has a great boxing demonstration? He showed amazing timing, good power, surprisingly effective defense not to mention Barrera fought a really close fight with MArquez where it was almost a stalemate

Originally Posted by Taeth

How does anyone not see Pacquaio's domination of Barrera has a great boxing demonstration? He showed amazing timing, good power, surprisingly effective defense not to mention Barrera fought a really close fight with MArquez where it was almost a stalemate

i know exactly what you mean taeth, its just people who are not ready to accept pacs improvments. you know how it works, every fighter has their doubters filled with hopeless negivities.