Thread: cross arm defense

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VXNzF0OGhrM

enjoy

that looks like it is just begging for a serious body shot to the kidney.

Originally Posted by Youngblood

that looks like it is just begging for a serious body shot to the kidney.

So true

This isn't actually the cross arm defense. The cross arm defense is done whilst squared up. The right arm comes across the face so that the forearm is going across the nose and the glove protects the left side of the face with the palm facing outward to cover more of the face. With the right arm raised in this manner the shoulder and tricep will be covering up the right side of your face around ear level. In essence the right arm acts as a sort of face bar. So think of it in that way.

The left arm is held across the body so the the forearm comes across the solar plexus. The arm is not long enough (for anyone) to cover both the left kidney and the liver at once. So the left arm must alternate between either covering the left kidney with the elbow or going over and covering up the liver on the other side of the body with the glove. Doing either one will expose the other side as a result.

because the arms are held 'across' the body and face the arms become committed to the act of blocking and because of this their capacity to punch is compromised. If you need to punch, you must first take your arms out of these strange positions. This takes longer than usual as the arms are held in ways that are not meant for punching at all. You end up causing momentary gaps (which in boxing are a very long window frame) while moving your arms into a position where they can punch and you also telegraph yourself badly due to the length it takes for you to do this.

Watch the Joe Louis/Max Baer KD's. Baer who use the cross arm defense I described here basically gets juggled by combinations as his arms are busy committed to the purpose of blocking. Watching this will also reveal how leaky the cross arm defense is. It is very poor at protecting the body and honeslty poor at defending the face also. You tend to take punches on your temples especially the right side of your head where you right shoulder is supposed to be defending. Try bringing you right shoulder up to your temple. Then you will realize why you will tend to get hit there. Baer was struck there also.


But ultimately (and this is just my view) the cross arm defense is more about rolling away from punches and loading up into a left hook. Watch Joe Frazier. He fought out of the cross arm stance exclusively. The right arm is hindered in its ability to punch because 1. you're squared up and 2. its being held across the face like a face bar. It purpose is more for blocking and picking things off than for punching. Hence the reason why Frazier never was known by his right hand. The left hand is at waist level to protect the body but by being down that low it also adds to the left hook's power. But that is another discussion.

As far this video it is honestly 100% wrong and following what he is instructing will get you hurt. The left side of his face is being obstructed by his glove robbing most of his vision with his shoulder shading the bottom of his chin worthlessly. This will not stop a right hand. His use of his shoulder looks more like a visual effect rather than something than is actually effective in practice. This is less of a cross arm defense than it is a very bad shoulder roll impersonation. He isn't even 'rolling' so much as he is blocking right hands with some of his glove and a little of his shoulder which is the complete opposite of what the shoulder roll is about. The shoulder roll is more of a slip than it is a block.

Also look at his body. Iceman pointed it out. He must bring down his right arm (completely exposing his face) to the liver or move his left glove across the liver (exposing his left kidney).

But then again his left kidney is already very exposed. Very poor instruction.

surprisingly i have seen guys work this style of defense rather well, i have seen better hand position, and used more for a roll, it does seem to frustrate a lot of newer fighters but i tend to avoid it due to the dependence of reflexes... i posted it so people could learn and comment about this style of defense i think this may be the same or similar to the philly shell that is rather big in this area for whatever reason...

Originally Posted by iceman

... the philly shell that is rather big in this area for whatever reason...

Floyd Mayweather. The "It" fighter of whatever generation tends to get emulated. Tyson, Jones, Mayweather etc

but that may not make it a good idea. i also think some beginners might get intimidated by this due to the fact it isn't likely to be shown to them, and they may feel it is an advanced style of defense. i think its main weakness would tend towards reflex orientated skill and experience to pull it off.

I fought a guy with a cross armn defense before.

I had a slight height advantage, but still....
He's the one guy I really lacerated, I cut him a lot, simply because he was so open to the uppercut.

You cant get any power from that defense,so there's no reason to respect you and hold off,Id either jab you,or press you,I could easily do both

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

You cant get any power from that defense,so there's no reason to respect you and hold off,Id either jab you,or press you,I could easily do both

I think the only guys to really be succesful from that posture were naturally exceptionally strong tough guys

Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

You cant get any power from that defense,so there's no reason to respect you and hold off,Id either jab you,or press you,I could easily do both

I think the only guys to really be succesful from that posture were naturally exceptionally strong tough guys

Even then,your putting so much torque on your shoulder blades,ie your rotator cuffs,long term,I think Id rather take the punch.You have to arm punch rather then putting your body behind it
Ive seen the occasional guy who can pull it off,but theyre the exception,not the rule,its sort of like Ali's hands down style,Ali can do that,because he's Ali,you aint,so dont do that.

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Originally Posted by hitmandonny

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

You cant get any power from that defense,so there's no reason to respect you and hold off,Id either jab you,or press you,I could easily do both

I think the only guys to really be succesful from that posture were naturally exceptionally strong tough guys

Even then,your putting so much torque on your shoulder blades,ie your rotator cuffs,long term,I think Id rather take the punch.You have to arm punch rather then putting your body behind it
Ive seen the occasional guy who can pull it off,but theyre the exception,not the rule,its sort of like Ali's hands down style,Ali can do that,because he's Ali,you aint,so dont do that.

Agreed.

La Motta was famed for his style, yet he would have avoided so much punishment and employed hios own power better had he used a conventional guard.

Soon as I was about 5 seconds into the vid, all I could think was...I'm having kidney for lunch! Maybe it is just a poor example of it as I've never seen a cross arm defence. But damn, this w/e it is just seems to have giant holes in it and looks like a wounded boxer backed into a corner.

Originally Posted by Youngblood

Soon as I was about 5 seconds into the vid, all I could think was...I'm having kidney for lunch! Maybe it is just a poor example of it as I've never seen a cross arm defence. But damn, this w/e it is just seems to have giant holes in it and looks like a wounded boxer backed into a corner.

I reckon it was created for Shorted guys, certainly not for fighters of your and my build.

i find the cross arm suits fighters who like to bully and can pack a strong hook. If you see Frazier or Foreman when they fight, they like to shove or manhandle (or at least foreman does) you, pushing you into striking range for a long hook, short hook. whatever.

And yeah you guys have good reasons on why the guard is flawed. It does leave openings, but thats what the low crouch bob and weave is for. You see Lamotta, Frazier they come in creeping in a real low crouch and when you overextend you jab or cross to reach their heads, pow, they come up with a hook.