Thread: De La Hoya v Pac - consequences for the p4p list

This may have been debated before but have been having a few exchanges with Mad Dog and Taansend off site and would be interested to get more views.

So Pac is currently number one. Oscar is not even in the top ten.

If Pac wins then everything remains as is but if he loses what are the consequences for the p4p list ??

I just can't see where De La Hoya can be placed but if he wins you surely have to place him above Pac ?? Ok if its an SD then we may have grounds to slate oscar for struggling agains the little guy and not put him in the list.

But if it's emphatic and he blows him away in early rounds do we all just say big guy v little guy so what ??

Anyhow - if Pac loses even if on points he has to lose p4p No 1 slot for sure IMO.

It's a tough one if he does lose.

For the record I can't see Pac winning - am cringing looking at the notable size difference in the publicity campaign let alone when they get the referee's instructions.

But i hope he does - for the p4p sake and for a Hatton showpiece at wembley

Originally Posted by Mark TKO

This may have been debated before but have been having a few exchanges with Mad Dog and Taansend off site and would be interested to get more views.

So Pac is currently number one. Oscar is not even in the top ten.

If Pac wins then everything remains as is but if he loses what are the consequences for the p4p list ??

I just can't see where De La Hoya can be placed but if he wins you surely have to place him above Pac ?? Ok if its an SD then we may have grounds to slate oscar for struggling agains the little guy and not put him in the list.

But if it's emphatic and he blows him away in early rounds do we all just say big guy v little guy so what ??

Anyhow - if Pac loses even if on points he has to lose p4p No 1 slot for sure IMO.

It's a tough one if he does lose.

For the record I can't see Pac winning - am cringing looking at the notable size difference in the publicity campaign let alone when they get the referee's instructions.

But i hope he does - for the p4p sake and for a Hatton showpiece at wembley

I think Pacquiao being number one isn't lost if he loses. I mean he is jumping up 2 weightclasses to fight Oscar De La Hoya, one of the best fighters of the past decade. This is like Roy Jones going up to fight Lennox Lewis. I don't think there is anybody now that Calzaghe has retired that would be deserving of the p4p spot. Pacquiao beat JMM, Cotto just lost, Margarito definitely doesn't deserve it, Hopkins IMO still wouldn't deserve top spot yet, maybe if he beat Dawson.

I am not one who believes that beating somebody places you above them in all cases. I don't think that Margarito should be higher than Cotto on the p4p list, I think Cotto against most opponents is the better fighter, and more likely to win. I don't think that personally Vazquez is better than Marquez, I just think the style matchup wasn't the best for Marquez. I don't think Frazier was better than Ali after their first fight.

In all honesty looking at skill Oscar is still probably in the top 6 p4p. He just hasn't done enough against opponents to prove that of late. I don't see Cotto beating him, or Margarito, or Mosley, and I have him against Williams pretty close. I think he stops Cotto quicker than Margarito did, he hits harder, and he can take Cotto's shots. I saw him outbox Mosley a few years ago, and Mosley has receded far more than Oscar has since that time.

The reason Pacquiao took this fight is because of what it does for his legacy to beat a guy this good, this far above his natural weight. IF he can do it, it shoots him p4p all time above anybody since the Duran, Leonard, Hagler era.

I dont see this one changing the p4p ratings. If Oscar loses shame on him. if Pac loses, oh well he was was a lot bigger than you. This fight was a bad choice from oscar it will get him little credit for winning, but will prob be his last if he loses. But i can see only one realistic out come, a ko win for oscar.Pac will be carrying 20 extra pounds than he is used to and his body frame is to small for such a a rise so quick. The weight gain will aslo affect his best skills badly, his speed and stamina.

Pac win or lose will still be p4p king in most eyes(not mine, until he beats JMM clearly).

ODLH win and i will ask the question why not someone your own weight in p4p list, there was plenty of options.

If he gets kayoed early he can't still be no 1. Know what you are saying and where you coming from but he just can't be if that happens.


So Joe has retired has he ....

I don't think it should affect his P4P standings to lose to someone who has been fighting at 154 for years now. Pac fought at 130 in March! 147 is a catchweight.

But honestly, I think RING rankings will move him down a spot or 2 and probably will move Oscar somewhere in the 8-10 range in the top 10. I just hope for boxing's sake that Manny wins this fight. If Oscar wins, no one gives a sh*t!! If Pac wins, then it opens up the door to even bigger fights and makes it so Oscar will HAVE to retire!

Pacquiao hasnt been a natural 130 pounder for awhile now, he was coming at 140-144 over the past year or two, and thats a lot of weight for a super featherweight to put on, more than Corrales put on against MAyweather I believe. Pacquiao was having a ton of difficulty making the weight for the last year and halfish. Even at lightweight he came in at 147 which means he is probably naturally around 160 pounds judging by his weight gain. Pacquiao brings certain things that Oscar has never delt with, particularly how Manny moves in and out so quickly, and its quite hard to Manny with any punch either than the right hand consistently which I think Oscar can do, but is his right hand hard enouhg to hurt Pacquiao? He wasn't able to hurt Forbes or Floyd with it, we will see if he can against Manny, because I don't see him landing that left hook a whole lot, I could be wrong ,but watching Manny's fights I see he has been very elusive to the left hook over the past few years.

Originally Posted by Taeth

Pacquiao hasnt been a natural 130 pounder for awhile now, he was coming at 140-144 over the past year or two, and thats a lot of weight for a super featherweight to put on, more than Corrales put on against MAyweather I believe. Pacquiao was having a ton of difficulty making the weight for the last year and halfish. Even at lightweight he came in at 147 which means he is probably naturally around 160 pounds judging by his weight gain. Pacquiao brings certain things that Oscar has never delt with, particularly how Manny moves in and out so quickly, and its quite hard to Manny with any punch either than the right hand consistently which I think Oscar can do, but is his right hand hard enouhg to hurt Pacquiao? He wasn't able to hurt Forbes or Floyd with it, we will see if he can against Manny, because I don't see him landing that left hook a whole lot, I could be wrong ,but watching Manny's fights I see he has been very elusive to the left hook over the past few years.

Marquez caught him on their last fight and he was stunned real bad.If that was Oscar he would have been comatosed.

Calzaghes earnt the current p4p number 1 ranking if you ask me by taking apart 2 hall of famers inside a year and mantaining his perfect record.

A pacquiao win on the 6th or even a fighting defeat considering the jump in weight should see him move back up to top spot.

De la Hoya gains entry to the top 10 with any kind of win over manny, however if he looks very good doing it and takes manny to the cleaners we could just see ODLH jump as high as 5th/6th

The Ring have already briefly covered this.

If Oscar wins a COMPETITIVE fight Pac will retain top spot. If Pac gets slaughtered he'll probably have to drop a place or two. And Oscar would possibly re-enter the lower end of the ten.

Oscar can't go ABOVE Pac if he wins. That wouldn't make sense (sense and P4P ). P4P is meant to be judged on all the fighters being the same size.

Clearly.. Oscar is naturally much bigger than Pac. He will weigh over a stone more when in the ring - plus the obvious height and reach advantages.

If Pac loses, he loses his number 1 spot imo.

Marquez or Calzaghe would then be number 1.

This should have about as much as an affect on the P4P list as

The Big Show Vs Floyd Mayweather would have had

If Oscar won I don't think at all that he should go ahead of Pac... I don't think their is an informed boxing person on earth that would agree that Pac and ODLH should be considered at the same weight class... What Pac has done at his weight classes of recent years has been way above what ODLH has done at his weight classes in recent years.. For Pac to raise right up from his usual weight to fight oscar should not affect his P4P ranking... At Pac's poundage, he is unstoppable. He dominates like anyone in any weight.. That's what makes Pac #1..... It's the only way that we can compare fighters of different classes.

The fact he's going into a fight with oscar so far outside his dominant zone speaks volumes about his perceived potential.. Any boxer who is as dominant in their weight range as pac, and then jumps up 10+ over that weight range to fight one of the great fighters of our era also shows why he is considered the #1.... But this fight goes outside something that you could bring Pac down for if he loses.. And bring ODLH up for if he wins... If ODLH fought some of the opponents around his weight like Margarito or Williams, and won, then you could work him in there... If he stepped up to like a Pavlik etc in higher weights, then you could probably add him in there..

But I don't think the result of this fight should effect Pac's rating based on the fact he's gone up in weight by so much.. he's stepped WAY outside his P4P best range to make a fight for boxing history.. if he loses I don't think he should drop ranks..

I mean, is P4P #2, 3 or 4 dominating their entire division, then stepping up over 10 pounds to take on the greats of those divisions? No one else is doing that, and as silly as this fight seems and not appropriate, Pac is taking boxing by the nuts and fucking it up the ass....
And god forbid he gets messed up or knocked out by ODLH, i'm putting it down to a very very poor career decision, but it's not a loss to me that proves Pac is not P4P as good as he's always been to earn that spot.

That's looking at Pac through rose tinted glasses.

Although the fight should have no real bearing on his P4P position..

Him fighting 10-14 pounds above his best weight isn't some big heroic deed. He's doing it for the huge MONEY. ANY fighter from 130 or 135 would fight Oscar given the chance, without hesitation, for the MONEY. Pacs exciting style and status have allowed them to SELL a good fight.

And Pac hasn't established dominance over Marquez (probably 50-50 who's better in fans eyes). Let alone dominate any divison. Another slight on this "event."

Originally Posted by Fenster

That's looking at Pac through rose tinted glasses.

Although the fight should have no real bearing on his P4P position..

Him fighting 10-14 pounds above his best weight isn't some big heroic deed. He's doing it for the huge MONEY. ANY fighter from 130 or 135 would fight Oscar given the chance, without hesitation, for the MONEY. Pacs exciting style and status have allowed them to SELL a good fight.

And Pac hasn't established dominance over Marquez (probably 50-50 who's better in fans eyes). Let alone dominate any divison. Another slight on this "event."

As said p4p ive got calzaghe out ahead in top spot at the moment and i dont expect pacquaio to change that on the 6th.

Most of these p4p lists are constructed by american journalists who view the lighter weights with rose tinted glasses.

JC cannot do anything possible else to be recognised as the greatest boxer in the world!!!

This is one of the easiest questions to answer in boxing today.

If DLH wins, he gets zilch... zero... nada. He will have beaten a fighter that started his career at 105 pounds, while conveniently ignoring fighters at his OWN weight. The act of a coward. You look at Pacquiao's pictures as he gets ready for the fight. He looks fat. Hey... I'm a big fan of Manny's. I'll be rooting him on like you won't believe. But facts are facts. The odds are stacked HEAVILY against Manny.

If Manny wins, that's another story. He will have beaten a name fighter wa-a-a-a-ay above his natural fighting weight. He would deserve credit for that. Even if DLH is at the twilight of his career. But I would just as fast pack my bags and head south again. Get back to your normal fighting weight, Manny. Maybe a fight with Hatton would generate a little more of my interest. But get back where you belong, for your own good.

'Nough said.