Thread: Bailout of the Big 3

Do you agree with it? If so, why? If not, why not?

I agree, reluctantly. There are so many jobs at stake, the cost if they fail would be enormous. Everyone would pay a price, except for multimillionaires who don't work anyways.

In Canada, if the big three fail, estimates run in the neighborhood of 800,000 jobs lost, direct and indirect, after 5 years. That's a huge number, for Canada.

Originally Posted by CGM

I agree, reluctantly. There are so many jobs at stake, the cost if they fail would be enormous. Everyone would pay a price, except for multimillionaires who don't work anyways.

In Canada, if the big three fail, estimates run in the neighborhood of 800,000 jobs lost, direct and indirect, after 5 years. That's a huge number, for Canada.

I agree. What pisses me off is that Republican from one of those southern states bragging about the foreign car makers in his state and how they don't have any problems. What he doesn't say is how his broke ass state practically subsidizes these companies, giving facilities and land over for nothing. HE also doesn't realize that these companies have no retired people on the pay roll. They haven't had to make pay these costs. Well they will cross that bridge themselves.



What really pisses me off is that they bail out banks that just went out and bought other banks with no accountability. Exacerbating the problem.

The problem with this country is that it is socialism for some, and capitalism for the rest.

Originally Posted by CGM

I agree, reluctantly. There are so many jobs at stake, the cost if they fail would be enormous. Everyone would pay a price, except for multimillionaires who don't work anyways.

In Canada, if the big three fail, estimates run in the neighborhood of 800,000 jobs lost, direct and indirect, after 5 years. That's a huge number, for Canada.

That's pretty much how I feel. I'd love to say that I am against it based purely on principle, but with so many jobs/lives at stake it's impossible.

Hundreds of thousand of job for $15 billion? It's obviously worth it, but why are the authorities reluctant? Actually, it's not that easy. The companies are going bankrupt primarily due to their inefficiency and uncompetitiveness. If they can't address the inefficiency issue, just bailing them out will be like treating a sick patient with lots of vitamins and energy drinks without addressing the sickness itself.

Originally Posted by pacfan

Hundreds of thousand of job for $15 billion? It's obviously worth it, but why are the authorities reluctant? Actually, it's not that easy. The companies are going bankrupt primarily due to their inefficiency and uncompetitiveness. If they can't address the inefficiency issue, just bailing them out will be like treating a sick patient with lots of vitamins and energy drinks without addressing the sickness itself.

They are just uncompetitive because they have taken care of the workers they have had in the past. The foreign car manufacturers have been subsidized through research and development, and not paid for human rights violations, and pollution they have contributed for.

Originally Posted by pacfan

Hundreds of thousand of job for $15 billion? It's obviously worth it, but why are the authorities reluctant? Actually, it's not that easy. The companies are going bankrupt primarily due to their inefficiency and uncompetitiveness. If they can't address the inefficiency issue, just bailing them out will be like treating a sick patient with lots of vitamins and energy drinks without addressing the sickness itself.

But WHY are they uncompetitive? There's PLENTY more to this....

But I'm the mediator. you guys discuss this.

I am against the bail out because I figure the government shouldn't control who has a good business and who doesn't. Also the UAW has a sweetheart of a deal and that deal is making the cars more expensive and hard for the big 3 to make a profit ALSO the big 3 went through a stretch from about 1970 to the mid-later 1990's where they made absolute crap cars.

The big 3 make very good cars now but they are still spread too thin you need Ford, Chevy, and GMC to make good cheap cars and trucks for your average working man but Saturn?!?!?! Do we really need them? The same goes for the luxury cars all we NEED is Caddilac and maybe Buick.


The big 3 just haven't run a smart business and I doubt the government getting involved and hamstringing what type of cars they can make is going to help things out......Chapter 11 would have been the best option.

Originally Posted by Lyle

I am against the bail out because I figure the government shouldn't control who has a good business and who doesn't. Also the UAW has a sweetheart of a deal and that deal is making the cars more expensive and hard for the big 3 to make a profit ALSO the big 3 went through a stretch from about 1970 to the mid-later 1990's where they made absolute crap cars.

The big 3 make very good cars now but they are still spread too thin you need Ford, Chevy, and GMC to make good cheap cars and trucks for your average working man but Saturn?!?!?! Do we really need them? The same goes for the luxury cars all we NEED is Caddilac and maybe Buick.


The big 3 just haven't run a smart business and I doubt the government getting involved and hamstringing what type of cars they can make is going to help things out......Chapter 11 would have been the best option.

Is this Fox news's report?

We are in a world of shite but I agree with the automotive bailout.That extends faaaar beyond the immediacy of the production lines and the job loss and enormous economic hit will be felt internationally,not just domestically.Manufacturers can do alot by dedicating more to a solid competative product that can compete with foreign autos consistently.

Besides..........my shites still under factory warranty .Need to make sure that its honored

Originally Posted by boozeboxer

Is this Fox news's report?

Hey I didn't blame just 1 group, I thought I was pretty fair in my view. Please explain what is wrong with my view.

Originally Posted by Lyle

I am against the bail out because I figure the government shouldn't control who has a good business and who doesn't. Also the UAW has a sweetheart of a deal and that deal is making the cars more expensive and hard for the big 3 to make a profit ALSO the big 3 went through a stretch from about 1970 to the mid-later 1990's where they made absolute crap cars.

The big 3 make very good cars now but they are still spread too thin you need Ford, Chevy, and GMC to make good cheap cars and trucks for your average working man but Saturn?!?!?! Do we really need them? The same goes for the luxury cars all we NEED is Caddilac and maybe Buick.


The big 3 just haven't run a smart business and I doubt the government getting involved and hamstringing what type of cars they can make is going to help things out......Chapter 11 would have been the best option.

Lyle, nobody is going to buy a car from a company that has declared bankruptcy.

And well before the current crisis the Big 3 have been making excellent cars that are every bit as good in quality as their Japanese counterparts. The truer problem comes from them already being in manageable difficulties and then the economic crunch that had nothing to do with them that affected everyone.

It's not a bailout so much as a floater loan for them to get by until this mess ends. I don't think they're being totally honest and they can't be because they don't know how long it'll be, but it's not really different than any individual who gets a floater loan and eventually pays it back with interest. Considering the long track record the Big 3 have in this country with pretty much driving the American economy I don't think it's out of line to ask for a loan to be paid back with interest.

I started this so I may as well offer my take....in 100 words or less...this is incredibly complex....

the big three built shit, were uncompetitive, inefficient, and failed to address the current macroeconomic factors and trends driving the marketplace. They built shit gas guzzlers when the japs were producing things smaller and better. But to their credit, they also fought hard to establish a standard of living that we've all come to enjoy.

On the other hand, it's the shareholders and Wall st analysts demanding annual returns forcing them to make cuts that will boost eps. it's a short term fix, and adds nothing to organic growth.

on the third hand, the west has freely and openly engaged in RTAs with countries who are not at the same level of economic development. They've also sat back and allowed domestic firms to offshore contracts to these countries, thereby eliminating domestic work and shifting it to countries that pay no attention to basic human rights, CSR, sustainability, etc.

No party is beyond reproach here. That's why I agree with the bailout--b/c the gov't contributed to this mess. But I don't think they should be state run. But they should have a damn sound business plan in place....

Our current model of free trade goes against everything David Ricardo intended gains from trade and comparative advantage to mean.

Lets see,Detroit puts out nothing but giant turd burgers
Theres a gas crunch
People start wanting more fuel efficient cars
Detroits profits plummet
They go to Washington for a bailout
Im having a case of Deja Vu here

Originally Posted by pacfan

Hundreds of thousand of job for $15 billion? It's obviously worth it, but why are the authorities reluctant? Actually, it's not that easy. The companies are going bankrupt primarily due to their inefficiency and uncompetitiveness. If they can't address the inefficiency issue, just bailing them out will be like treating a sick patient with lots of vitamins and energy drinks without addressing the sickness itself.

Too right ,the quick prop ups will snap and others will be needed again and again until the greed that caused this problem to happen in the stock markets is slowed; but look there is good money to be made there right now as some of the blue chips regain their hold,so its off on the old cycle again.

Greed eventually breeds panic, cant see anyway out myself.