Thread: GBP is taking a beating these days.

Ortiz just took a beating...he quit, Roberto Guerrero chose to stop his fight instead of going forward, and finally the man himself Oscar DLH opted to end his fight rather than to face another round against Pac.

I take nothing away from them, I know it takes alot to stand in their in the first place. But do you think there is some connection? Is GBP pushing these guys to fast and they are feeling the preassure? I mean Ortiz looked totally in control at some parts of his fight but maybe the resistance coupled with the preasure were to much and he cracked, could the same be true of Guerrero. Or an even crazier thought would be that these guys are following their leaders example? Speed of the leader, speed of the pack, because Oscar set the example that it was ok to quit and these guys all followed.
Initially I was thinking it could be a generational thing because I know the old school guys would never do this in their prime, but then again the baby bull Juan Diaz just went out on his shield, so its not a generational thing.

What are your thoughts?

Boxing is a very unpredicatable sport. It is not a trend that these things are happening even Top Rank has it's own stinkers like Lumacad quitting against Jorhe Arce.

I think you are right about these guys getting rushed to fast.

Originally Posted by killersheep

I think you are right about these guys getting rushed to fast.

Me too, this fight made me see sense. I'm guilty of thinking Ortiz could cope at this level much like Tszyu and Oscar did early in their careers.

Yes in my opinion they get rush too fast because of expectations. Take Oscar for example. He had only 17 fights under his belt but was rushed in to fight Rafael Ruelas in 1995 who then had a record of 43-1 for his IBF belt. Now we all know Oscar won in the 2nd round, but that was really quick considering Oscar was still green back then and he was also the underdog of the fight, but there was big expectations for him to take a big fight of that magnitude.


Hopefully Oscar isn't thinking if I can do it so these guys can too. Some fighters development are slower or faster than other guys.

They are getting rushed too fast Ortiz has never had an experience like this in his home and he is the Main Event of the evening. He admitted himself that he felt a lot of pressure and he didn't even realize he was going up against an opponent until he got up on the Ring.

I'm not certain Ortiz was put in too quickly with a guy like Maidana. Maybe a little but it was time to move up and in theory Maidana's style should have meshed fairly well with Ortiz's.

Guerrero's performance against Yordan on the other hand was absolutely not a case of a guy being rushed. If anything he was the experienced guy there.

I don't think anybody is being rushed here.

Leon Spinks won the Heavyweight Championship from Muhammad Ali after a mere 6 pro fights!

Victor Ortiz from what I understand has a great amatuer background and he had 20 fights goin in against Madaena.

He was as ready as he was going to be.

I don't think Ortiz was rushed at all. He was in there against a formidable opponent but as of yet not a worldbeater. They were fighting tooth and nail so he was basically just in there with a guy of his level but Ortiz just got outlasted. His opponent was just more durable. And it didn't help that Ortiz fought the wrong fight. He admitted he got caught up in the moment and many fighters do that and it usually takes away from your focus.

Originally Posted by OnixAA

Ortiz just took a beating...he quit, Roberto Guerrero chose to stop his fight instead of going forward, and finally the man himself Oscar DLH opted to end his fight rather than to face another round against Pac.

I take nothing away from them, I know it takes alot to stand in their in the first place. But do you think there is some connection? Is GBP pushing these guys to fast and they are feeling the preassure? I mean Ortiz looked totally in control at some parts of his fight but maybe the resistance coupled with the preasure were to much and he cracked, could the same be true of Guerrero. Or an even crazier thought would be that these guys are following their leaders example? Speed of the leader, speed of the pack, because Oscar set the example that it was ok to quit and these guys all followed.
Initially I was thinking it could be a generational thing because I know the old school guys would never do this in their prime, but then again the baby bull Juan Diaz just went out on his shield, so its not a generational thing.

What are your thoughts?

Maybe Oscar is pushing a little too fast, but that is the way he was brought into boxing after his olympic triumph. I think he was a world champ after his 12th fight. And he was under Arum then they all do it.

Who do they have who's PPV worthy now? Mosley and Hopkins, anybody else? Their biggest prospect just quit in his first big fight. They don't look like such a powerhouse anymore, Arum must be enjoying life right now.

Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Who do they have who's PPV worthy now? Mosley and Hopkins, anybody else? Their biggest prospect just quit in his first big fight. They don't look like such a powerhouse anymore, Arum must be enjoying life right now.

They have promotional rights over Floyd Mayweather's next 3 fights, as well as Juan Manuel Marquez. There's also David Haye if he ever manages to get in the ring. Plus they've got sum options on Pacquiao, they're really not struggling.

Originally Posted by OnixAA

Ortiz just took a beating...he quit, Roberto Guerrero chose to stop his fight instead of going forward, and finally the man himself Oscar DLH opted to end his fight rather than to face another round against Pac.

I take nothing away from them, I know it takes alot to stand in their in the first place. But do you think there is some connection? Is GBP pushing these guys to fast and they are feeling the preassure? I mean Ortiz looked totally in control at some parts of his fight but maybe the resistance coupled with the preasure were to much and he cracked, could the same be true of Guerrero. Or an even crazier thought would be that these guys are following their leaders example? Speed of the leader, speed of the pack, because Oscar set the example that it was ok to quit and these guys all followed.
Initially I was thinking it could be a generational thing because I know the old school guys would never do this in their prime, but then again the baby bull Juan Diaz just went out on his shield, so its not a generational thing.

What are your thoughts?

umm not really, Hopkins a GBP fighter beat the hell out of Pavlik in his last fight, Mosley just put on one of the best performances in his career KO'ing Margarito, and Marquez with the brutal ko win over Diaz, 3 of the biggest wins in the last year, all coming from GBP fighters, pretty far from taking a beating

Originally Posted by JazMerkin

Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Who do they have who's PPV worthy now? Mosley and Hopkins, anybody else? Their biggest prospect just quit in his first big fight. They don't look like such a powerhouse anymore, Arum must be enjoying life right now.

They have promotional rights over Floyd Mayweather's next 3 fights, as well as Juan Manuel Marquez. There's also David Haye if he ever manages to get in the ring. Plus they've got sum options on Pacquiao, they're really not struggling.

They're advisors to Mayweather promotions (and that turns out to be a good thing as Floyd is self-promoting he isn't guaranteed anything for the JMM fight, a smart move now it turns out it may not do so well.) They have a small share of Manny's promotional contract that they got by offering Manny a suitcase full of money to sign a contract Don King-style while he was under contract to Arum. Apparently offer Manny money and a blank contract and he signs anything, something Oscar took advantage of, and rather than go to court Arum gave them what was described as a small share of Manny. But Arum is still in control of Manny's career otherwise we'd be watching Manny-Mosley instead of Manny-Cotto.

So they've got a bunch of fighters at the fag ends of their careers but nobody coming along to replace them. They're definitely not struggling but give it a year or two and who do they have to promote who can do PPVs?

I don't think GBP is taking a beating, I think that they are coming back down to Earth and are starting to finally deal with some of the problems promoters deal with. Let's be honest, GBP was making money because their old stars, especially ODLH, were still fighting. They made a lot of profit and they got HBO to secure a TON of dates for their stable of fighters this year. But now that ODLH has retired, they will have to start seriously making money the old fashioned way, by developing fighters. Honestly, I don't know if GBP has figured out the balance between developing fighters and making big fights yet. Top Rank definitely has this down.

I see 2010 being a rough year for GBP. I mean they've got co-promotions with David Haye and Floyd Mayweather, but outside of that, things look bleak. Ortiz had star quality but that's definitely gone because no one will forget how he basically quit, Kirkland is in jail for a while, and they really don't seem to have any prospects. Abner Mares is ok, but he's a counter puncher in a very light division. The problem with GBP is that they don't seem to know how to develop fighters and find prospects. They say that they are the best and that they come up with fresh and exciting ideas, but do they really?

Top Rank first of all has the best matchmaker Bruce Trampler, who can properly manage a boxer's career and pick great styles and fights. Then they also understand how to market fights in certain areas, they understand how to market Puerto Rican fighters on the East Coast, with Manny Pacquaio's stardom, they are now trying to market Filipino fights on the West Coast to feed off of that, they definitely know how to make money in Mexico, and they know how to market black fighters like Peterson and make money off cards in the South and Midwest, they're doing a bunch of co-promotions in Asia. They know how to take risk, they went out and signed undefeated knockout artist Edwin Valero, who isn't cleared anywhere except Texas but could be soon and has a great style to watch. And even if he loses, he's still got a great style. Instead of them wasting time and money on signing Deontay Wilder (who only got ANY press because he was the only US guy to medal at the Olympics) like GBP did they went out and signed Matt Korobov, who didn't medal but has a GREAT style and talent. Kinda like they signed Miguel Cotto.

It seems like GBP only focuses on Mexican and American fighters because they are the easiest to market. But Top Rank focuses on what really matters...talent. Once the talent is there, you can figure out a way to market the guy later. Yeah, Manny Pacquiao was great after he beat Barrera the first time, but I would have never dreamed that he'd be as big a star as he turned out to be. I guess maybe GBP just needs more time but they need to actually start thinking outside of the box instead of just talking about thinking outside of the box.