Thread: The Revaluation of Manny Pacquiao

I always been a massive Pacquiao fan. So it causes me great pain to see him pretty much expose himself as a fraud. Facts don't lie. And facts are he is refusing to take random tests. And he refusing to take them he's hiding something. He's hiding the fact that he's been taking performance enhancing drugs. Another fact. With that said, I can not in good conscious continue to rank Pacdruggie in my personal p4p ranking. I have to much respect for the sport of Boxing to do that. I've revised my rankings to the following

1.Floyd Mayweather
2.Manny Pacquiao
3.Bernard Hopkins
4.Rafael Marquez
5.Shane Mosley
6.Juan Manuel Marquez
7.Hozumi Hasegawa
8.Israel Vazquez
9.Paul Williams
10.Celestino Caballero
11. Miguel Cotto

I had removed Cotto from my list originally. But since it's become pretty obvious he was beaten by a fighter taking illegal substances I decided to bring him back.

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

I always been a massive Pacquiao fan. So it causes me great pain to see him pretty much expose himself as a fraud. Facts don't lie. And facts are he is refusing to take random tests. And he refusing to take them he's hiding something. He's hiding the fact that he's been taking performance enhancing drugs. Another fact. With that said, I can not in good conscious continue to rank Pacdruggie in my personal p4p ranking. I have to much respect for the sport of Boxing to do that. I've revised my rankings to the following

1.Floyd Mayweather
2.Manny Pacquiao
3.Bernard Hopkins
4.Rafael Marquez
5.Shane Mosley
6.Juan Manuel Marquez
7.Hozumi Hasegawa
8.Israel Vazquez
9.Paul Williams
10.Celestino Caballero
11. Miguel Cotto

I had removed Cotto from my list originally. But since it's become pretty obvious he was beaten by a fighter taking illegal substances I decided to bring him back.

hahaha.. you're the fraud.. you think people would believe you're a pac fan? now.. maybe you have a drinking and drug problem that you forgot you've been bashing pac here all this time.

Originally Posted by josef4334

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

I always been a massive Pacquiao fan. So it causes me great pain to see him pretty much expose himself as a fraud. Facts don't lie. And facts are he is refusing to take random tests. And he refusing to take them he's hiding something. He's hiding the fact that he's been taking performance enhancing drugs. Another fact. With that said, I can not in good conscious continue to rank Pacdruggie in my personal p4p ranking. I have to much respect for the sport of Boxing to do that. I've revised my rankings to the following

1.Floyd Mayweather
2.Manny Pacquiao
3.Bernard Hopkins
4.Rafael Marquez
5.Shane Mosley
6.Juan Manuel Marquez
7.Hozumi Hasegawa
8.Israel Vazquez
9.Paul Williams
10.Celestino Caballero
11. Miguel Cotto

I had removed Cotto from my list originally. But since it's become pretty obvious he was beaten by a fighter taking illegal substances I decided to bring him back.

hahaha.. you're the fraud.. you think people would believe you're a pac fan? now.. maybe you have a drinking and drug problem that you forgot you've been bashing pac here all this time.

Maybe there is some bias there, but do you really think insulting him is making Pac look any less guilty? No. Pac's done this all to himself. Take the damn random tests and lets see a clean fight.

Originally Posted by josef4334

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

I always been a massive Pacquiao fan. So it causes me great pain to see him pretty much expose himself as a fraud. Facts don't lie. And facts are he is refusing to take random tests. And he refusing to take them he's hiding something. He's hiding the fact that he's been taking performance enhancing drugs. Another fact. With that said, I can not in good conscious continue to rank Pacdruggie in my personal p4p ranking. I have to much respect for the sport of Boxing to do that. I've revised my rankings to the following

1.Floyd Mayweather
2.Manny Pacquiao
3.Bernard Hopkins
4.Rafael Marquez
5.Shane Mosley
6.Juan Manuel Marquez
7.Hozumi Hasegawa
8.Israel Vazquez
9.Paul Williams
10.Celestino Caballero
11. Miguel Cotto

I had removed Cotto from my list originally. But since it's become pretty obvious he was beaten by a fighter taking illegal substances I decided to bring him back.

hahaha.. you're the fraud.. you think people would believe you're a pac fan? now.. maybe you have a drinking and drug problem that you forgot you've been bashing pac here all this time.

There's a difference between fan and groupie. Your a groupie. Which is why you continue to defend his dirty ass. And I got no doubt what's so ever you will continue to defend and try and justify his actions when a test comes back dirty. It's the sort of mindless groupie you are. But not me. As much as it pains me to do, I got to call it the way it is. Pacquiao is a dirty cheat. Any true Boxing fan can see that. There is no room in the sport for a cheating biitch like Pacquiao. But that's something I don't expect a mindless individual like yourself to comprehend.

If this were Floyd refusing to take a test; I would think that the story would be bigger than it is now...I could only imagine all the Gayweather; ducking; steroid user; blah blah; it would be nuts...this uproar is mild in comparison if the shoe were on the other foot.

I mean this is Boxing; and the whole point of the sport is to beat the other person into submission; or to inflict more damage on your foe than he can inflict upon you. This is not track & field, cycling, or baseball; this is contact sport where people have been killed or maimed for life. Even in Football you have Helmets and Pads. That being said; if there is ANY sport where the utmost care must be taken to avoid cheating it is the sweet science. Cheating in this sport can kill someone.

Testing negative throughout your career means bupkus. I say if there is a way to be certain (as certain as one can be), I say do it. SSM, Roy Jones, Vargas, Holyfield were all reportedly looking for that something extra found in a syringe.

Quick question; was Manny considered the second best Fighter of All Time behind Sugar Ray Robinson before beating ODLH, Hatton, and Cotto? Where did he rank on the all-time lists? In my humble opinion that is where the arise. Any athlete in a sport like boxing that improves that dramatically while getting older is going to raise a brow in this day and age of the so-called "Steroid Era". Barry Bonds was a ATG player; but wanted to become legendary; Mark McGwire was a decent player, but wanted more; Marion Jones was an elite athlete in D1 basketball and Track and Field, who wanted more. A-Rod; Roger Clemens; Rafael Palmeiro, Andy Petite, Manny Ramirez were all wonderful athletes , who wanted more...I say take the test Pac; and put all the questions to rest; beat the hell out of Floyd, then File your Lawsuit. If not; and it really doesn't matter because I am a regular "Joe" but I will always wonder if your recent exploits in the ring were done with a little assistance.

All I want to see is a good match between two people that are relying solely on skill and conditioning go head to head to see whose skill and conditioning is superior. Quite frankly; I think Floyd is the better fighter, however, if Pac beats the Sh** out of him; it is not going to change my life one bit; I will still have to drag my A** to work the following Monday.

Anyhow; I hope the fight moves forward; but if it doesn't fine; I will do something else with my 50 bucks..

Originally Posted by TheBranMan

Originally Posted by josef4334

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

I always been a massive Pacquiao fan. So it causes me great pain to see him pretty much expose himself as a fraud. Facts don't lie. And facts are he is refusing to take random tests. And he refusing to take them he's hiding something. He's hiding the fact that he's been taking performance enhancing drugs. Another fact. With that said, I can not in good conscious continue to rank Pacdruggie in my personal p4p ranking. I have to much respect for the sport of Boxing to do that. I've revised my rankings to the following

1.Floyd Mayweather
2.Manny Pacquiao
3.Bernard Hopkins
4.Rafael Marquez
5.Shane Mosley
6.Juan Manuel Marquez
7.Hozumi Hasegawa
8.Israel Vazquez
9.Paul Williams
10.Celestino Caballero
11. Miguel Cotto

I had removed Cotto from my list originally. But since it's become pretty obvious he was beaten by a fighter taking illegal substances I decided to bring him back.

hahaha.. you're the fraud.. you think people would believe you're a pac fan? now.. maybe you have a drinking and drug problem that you forgot you've been bashing pac here all this time.

Maybe there is some bias there, but do you really think insulting him is making Pac look any less guilty? No. Pac's done this all to himself. Take the damn random tests and lets see a clean fight.

That's the difference. Me and you see things as Boxing fans. Josephina sees things as a groupie. He can't understand rational thinking.

VD you have been a Pac hater as long as I have known you on the board. Which is fine, except you claim not to be. You are turning into a Danny about something that you can not affect the outcome of.

If you need proof: you removed a man from your pound for pound list completely on an accusation that he is on steroids. Even if he was on steroids it wouldn't merit removal from that list completely.

I know it sucks man to have the one sanctuary in your life bombarded by Pac lovers but being obsessive over something that could have been described in one sentence such as: "It is my opinion that Manny is on performance enhancing drugs, and his failure to comply with blood test demands puts doubt over his entire career." ...makes you seem a bit creepy.

Side note: Should the title be Reevaluation, instead of revaluation?

Originally Posted by boozeboxer

VD you have been a Pac hater as long as I have known you on the board. Which is fine, except you claim not to be. You are turning into a Danny about something that you can not affect the outcome of.

If you need proof: you removed a man from your pound for pound list completely on an accusation that he is on steroids. Even if he was on steroids it wouldn't merit removal from that list completely.

I know it sucks man to have the one sanctuary in your life bombarded by Pac lovers but being obsessive over something that could have been described in one sentence such as: "It is my opinion that Manny is on performance enhancing drugs, and his failure to comply with blood test demands puts doubt over his entire career." ...makes you seem a bit creepy.

Side note: Should the title be Reevaluation, instead of revaluation?

haha, so you are learning something in law school.

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

I always been a massive Pacquiao fan. So it causes me great pain to see him pretty much expose himself as a fraud. Facts don't lie. And facts are he is refusing to take random tests. And he refusing to take them he's hiding something. He's hiding the fact that he's been taking performance enhancing drugs. Another fact. With that said, I can not in good conscious continue to rank Pacdruggie in my personal p4p ranking. I have to much respect for the sport of Boxing to do that. I've revised my rankings to the following

1.Floyd Mayweather
2.Manny Pacquiao
3.Bernard Hopkins
4.Rafael Marquez
5.Shane Mosley
6.Juan Manuel Marquez
7.Hozumi Hasegawa
8.Israel Vazquez
9.Paul Williams
10.Celestino Caballero
11. Miguel Cotto

I had removed Cotto from my list originally. But since it's become pretty obvious he was beaten by a fighter taking illegal substances I decided to bring him back.

funny thread!
should Mosley not be stricken from your list as well though

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

I always been a massive Pacquiao fan.
So it causes me great pain to see him pretty much expose himself as a fraud. Facts don't lie. And facts are he is refusing to take random tests. And he refusing to take them he's hiding something. He's hiding the fact that he's been taking performance enhancing drugs. Another fact. With that said, I can not in good conscious continue to rank Pacdruggie in my personal p4p ranking. I have to much respect for the sport of Boxing to do that. I've revised my rankings to the following

1.Floyd Mayweather
2.Manny Pacquiao
3.Bernard Hopkins
4.Rafael Marquez
5.Shane Mosley
6.Juan Manuel Marquez
7.Hozumi Hasegawa
8.Israel Vazquez
9.Paul Williams
10.Celestino Caballero
11. Miguel Cotto

I had removed Cotto from my list originally. But since it's become pretty obvious he was beaten by a fighter taking illegal substances I decided to bring him back
.

:VD: __________________________________________________ ____
__________________________________________________ ___
_________ _________ _________

Mosley was proven to have used steroid and yet he was treated like it wasn't his fault but pac on mere suspicion was treated guilty.

I think its safe to say Pac engenders much more passion in his fans than PBF. PBF, like Sweat Pea, is a great technician but hardly a passionate fighter. Indeed, PBF's abrasive personality further alienates him from fans above and beyond his cold scientific tactics. He's not a charismatic crossover star like Ali, SRL, or ODLH; nor is he a human highlight real like roy jones. If anything, he's not given the benefit of the doubt...because he not that likeable.

Pac in contrast is like JCC: a valiant warrior who taps into the primitive appeal that is boxing. On top of that he has a huge nationalistic and identity based following, very similar to Chavez. I think its therefore very difficult for Pac fans to see the situation objectively. There's too much emotion involved.

I find it very unlikely, short of new developments, that history will blame PBF if this fight fails to materialize. Regardless or whether or not we think Pac is cheating, and I don't think he is, his legacy will take a great hit if he fails to fight his most worthy opponent.

Originally Posted by Waleed

Mosley was proven to have used steroid and yet he was treated like it wasn't his fault but pac on mere suspicion was treated guilty.

You have already established you don't care about others views on here. So now that that's out of the way we are looking at Mayweather's camp. Mayweather's father thinks Pacquiao is using PEDs. Wouldn't it stand to reason to request a test to prove otherwise?

I agree stricter drug testing should be in place for people that have tested positive OR been indicted on PED charges, like Jones Jr., Mosley etc. etc..

And at the heart of this we are getting back to stricter drug testing should be implemented sport wide. Remember Mosley never tested positive, even though we know for a fact he was using PEDs, and that was using the same standard as they are using for this fight.

Why would you not want better tests to prove that athletes are fighting clean?

The argument that this has never been done before in boxing is a weak one as well because, guess what? The people making, masking and using PEDs in more sophisticated methods every day making current methods not quite obsolete, but less reliable. Drug testing is and always will be aimed at a moving target. If the method is not improved, constantly reevaluated and updated to keep up with the times it becomes practically useless.

The ignorance on this forum has no limits. I'll just chill and continue

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

I always been a massive Pacquiao fan. So it causes me great pain to see him pretty much expose himself as a fraud. Facts don't lie. And facts are he is refusing to take random tests. And he refusing to take them he's hiding something. He's hiding the fact that he's been taking performance enhancing drugs. Another fact. With that said, I can not in good conscious continue to rank Pacdruggie in my personal p4p ranking. I have to much respect for the sport of Boxing to do that. I've revised my rankings to the following

1.Floyd Mayweather
2.Manny Pacquiao
3.Bernard Hopkins
4.Rafael Marquez
5.Shane Mosley
6.Juan Manuel Marquez
7.Hozumi Hasegawa
8.Israel Vazquez
9.Paul Williams
10.Celestino Caballero
11. Miguel Cotto

I had removed Cotto from my list originally. But since it's become pretty obvious he was beaten by a fighter taking illegal substances I decided to bring him back.

This post is interesting on many levels. You are assuming he is guilty and he must prove that he's innocent. I assume you are American so it's interesting you have this viewpoint which is opposite of the 'innocent until proven guilty' norm. I beleive Pac has passed every drug test he's taken. Refusal to take additional test mandated from your opponent is not an admission of guilt

You also say that that Pac is a fraud for not taking blood tests. Using that logic, I beleive you would have to remove everyone including Floyd from your list. How many fights has Floyd had where he was subject to random blood tests? I think none but I may be wrong. He could very easily have been cycling on and off PED's through his career but just not be on them now - we'll never know. THat applys to everyone on the list.

I agree that blood testing should become standard practice in boxing - it's insane that it's not. But this should be done at the commission level.