Thread: Religion gone wrong.

This news story about that man who drew a cartoon depicting Mohammad a few years ago irritated me a little bit today.

BBC News - Danish police shoot intruder at cartoonist's home

I remember the uproar at the time thinking it was all so over the top and a lot of getting worked up over nothing. This man has seemingly become a serious target in the wake of a little bit of satire, having to spend time in hiding and ensuring that his home is fully secure in case of loonies looking to kill him. Apparently there is a bounty of a million dollars on his head. It's really scary stuff. This man is probably going to always have to be looking over his shoulder in case he is targeted.

I just look at religion and sigh sometimes. Though most followers are normal people looking for some kind of certainty in the chaos we call existence, it does seem to breed an awful lof of intolerant nutters. I'm not just singling out Islam here as I think it can also go to the head of extreme Christians and Catholics too. I think religion has some wonderful messages, but surely nothing good can come from wanting to kill a man who has satirised religion in the form of a cartoon? I just don't get it.

Any thoughts on this?

Originally Posted by miles

This news story about that man who drew a cartoon depicting Mohammad a few years ago irritated me a little bit today.

BBC News - Danish police shoot intruder at cartoonist's home

I remember the uproar at the time thinking it was all so over the top and a lot of getting worked up over nothing. This man has seemingly become a serious target in the wake of a little bit of satire, having to spend time in hiding and ensuring that his home is fully secure in case of loonies looking to kill him. Apparently there is a bounty of a million dollars on his head. It's really scary stuff. This man is probably going to always have to be looking over his shoulder in case he is targeted.

I just look at religion and sigh sometimes. Though most followers are normal people looking for some kind of certainty in the chaos we call existence, it does seem to breed an awful lof of intolerant nutters. I'm not just singling out Islam here as I think it can also go to the head of extreme Christians and Catholics too. I think religion has some wonderful messages, but surely nothing good can come from wanting to kill a man who has satirised religion in the form of a cartoon? I just don't get it.

Any thoughts on this?

Yeah I have.

Im going to take out an ad online offering assisted suicides for a favour.

Once they reply the deal is this: They publicly denounce Some Mulla or cleric,they get a million on their head.I bring the photo of their head to Saudi and collect.

Originally Posted by Andre

Originally Posted by miles

This news story about that man who drew a cartoon depicting Mohammad a few years ago irritated me a little bit today.

BBC News - Danish police shoot intruder at cartoonist's home

I remember the uproar at the time thinking it was all so over the top and a lot of getting worked up over nothing. This man has seemingly become a serious target in the wake of a little bit of satire, having to spend time in hiding and ensuring that his home is fully secure in case of loonies looking to kill him. Apparently there is a bounty of a million dollars on his head. It's really scary stuff. This man is probably going to always have to be looking over his shoulder in case he is targeted.

I just look at religion and sigh sometimes. Though most followers are normal people looking for some kind of certainty in the chaos we call existence, it does seem to breed an awful lof of intolerant nutters. I'm not just singling out Islam here as I think it can also go to the head of extreme Christians and Catholics too. I think religion has some wonderful messages, but surely nothing good can come from wanting to kill a man who has satirised religion in the form of a cartoon? I just don't get it.

Any thoughts on this?

Yeah I have.

Im going to take out an ad online offering assisted suicides for a favour.

Once they reply the deal is this: They publicly denounce Some Mulla or cleric,they get a million on their head.I bring the photo of their head to Saudi and collect.

That's the way to go, a bit of entrepreneurial spirit!

Imagine someone wanting to cut your neck because you say "God is gay!". Such a silly thing to get upset about.

When has religion ever gone right?

It ridiculous that someone would be murdered by an axe-wielding lunatic simply because he drew a fucking cartoon. Insane.

The big problem is that in the Al-Quaran, it is specifically said that one cannot depict and represent the prophet and muslims tend to take it very at heart. Still, only the fanatics would go beyond anger to try to murder someone and it is clearly out of bounds. Incredible how a strict interpretation instead of a moderate one can make all the difference and make things totally nut.

CFH religion has done right in some cases, it's just easier to point out the bad because those are more memorable.

A couple good things about Christianity (which I think even you will appreciate)
#1 In the begining stages of Christianity the key members of the religion were slaves & women. Christianity was the first religion to offer such upward mobility to those classes and all because in Christianity it was cheaper to be baptized (they used and still use water, the Magna Mater cult put you in a pit, covered it with a grate and sacrificed a bull which the baptizee bought over the top of the grate drenching that person in blood...water = clean and cheap and bull = expensive and messy)

#2 During the several famines and plagues Europe (and the rest of the world) suffered through during the middle ages only the Priests, Monks, Nuns, et al would aid, feed, tend to and bury the ill and dead (it doesn't sound like much but it was a HUGE deal). And right now organized religion (even as much as I do not appreciate it) is helping feed and shelter the less fortunant.

I tend to share Joseph Campbell's view on religion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo_kiNbwWaY

Originally Posted by Lyle

CFH religion has done right in some cases, it's just easier to point out the bad because those are more memorable.

A couple good things about Christianity (which I think even you will appreciate)
#1 In the begining stages of Christianity the key members of the religion were slaves & women. Christianity was the first religion to offer such upward mobility to those classes and all because in Christianity it was cheaper to be baptized (they used and still use water, the Magna Mater cult put you in a pit, covered it with a grate and sacrificed a bull which the baptizee bought over the top of the grate drenching that person in blood...water = clean and cheap and bull = expensive and messy)

#2 During the several famines and plagues Europe (and the rest of the world) suffered through during the middle ages only the Priests, Monks, Nuns, et al would aid, feed, tend to and bury the ill and dead (it doesn't sound like much but it was a HUGE deal). And right now organized religion (even as much as I do not appreciate it) is helping feed and shelter the less fortunant.

I tend to share Joseph Campbell's view on religion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo_kiNbwWaY

Oh dear, Religion


oh dear an Andre rant


A strange thing,when there is a real possession of a house not by an ex human spirit in limbo but by a full on Demonic one, its usually the Catholic Churches top blokes who have to put the writ on it.

This stems back to the fact that they have the knowledge that to practice not believing in the entity at all (even though its throwing them around the room etc and smashing stuff up in front of everyones eyes.) They remove them by disbeliving in them while bringing 4d love and light down into the place through prayer to offset the opening between 2d and 3d.

Those 2d things are rare but they come in via an invitation by a fool ot via an opening that is a weakness in 3d or a 3d person usually aroud some past trauma. They come in very slow stages and eventually to leech negative life force as they use peoples fear to build momentum to slowly rise from 2d up into 3d through a known line of increasing negative emotions of the humans involved.
The fact that we hold all this material stuff together up here or down here (which ever way you look at it) with our minds firstly and our many belief systems, is knowledge that the Roman Church has kept to itself since recovering and volting up all the ancient scriptures, while building up its own belif system for many to fall into.

Yeah so even though they hide the truth in order to hold all the power (which is wrong) they still do some good.

If they released all of what they really know about how things are set up for us all in regards to mind, belife , material being and the effects it all has on our health on these three levels; as well as effects out of us and into our world;we could turn this whole thing around and become as we were ment to be in no time flat.

Originally Posted by Lyle

CFH religion has done right in some cases, it's just easier to point out the bad because those are more memorable.

A couple good things about Christianity (which I think even you will appreciate)
#1 In the begining stages of Christianity the key members of the religion were slaves & women. Christianity was the first religion to offer such upward mobility to those classes and all because in Christianity it was cheaper to be baptized (they used and still use water, the Magna Mater cult put you in a pit, covered it with a grate and sacrificed a bull which the baptizee bought over the top of the grate drenching that person in blood...water = clean and cheap and bull = expensive and messy)

#2 During the several famines and plagues Europe (and the rest of the world) suffered through during the middle ages only the Priests, Monks, Nuns, et al would aid, feed, tend to and bury the ill and dead (it doesn't sound like much but it was a HUGE deal). And right now organized religion (even as much as I do not appreciate it) is helping feed and shelter the less fortunant.

I tend to share Joseph Campbell's view on religion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo_kiNbwWaY

Yeah, Islam and christianity used to do a few good things... but then again, if we weight it with the Crusades, the Cathars' massacre, the inquisition, the modern era super intolerance.... I would say that their good things is largely outweight by the good things it did. Not that I am for its complete and uttermost abolition but let's keep a deep eye on it and let's not throw it too many flowers for its achievements.

Originally Posted by Nameless

Originally Posted by Lyle

CFH religion has done right in some cases, it's just easier to point out the bad because those are more memorable.

A couple good things about Christianity (which I think even you will appreciate)
#1 In the begining stages of Christianity the key members of the religion were slaves & women. Christianity was the first religion to offer such upward mobility to those classes and all because in Christianity it was cheaper to be baptized (they used and still use water, the Magna Mater cult put you in a pit, covered it with a grate and sacrificed a bull which the baptizee bought over the top of the grate drenching that person in blood...water = clean and cheap and bull = expensive and messy)

#2 During the several famines and plagues Europe (and the rest of the world) suffered through during the middle ages only the Priests, Monks, Nuns, et al would aid, feed, tend to and bury the ill and dead (it doesn't sound like much but it was a HUGE deal). And right now organized religion (even as much as I do not appreciate it) is helping feed and shelter the less fortunant.

I tend to share Joseph Campbell's view on religion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo_kiNbwWaY

Yeah, Islam and christianity used to do a few good things... but then again, if we weight it with the Crusades, the Cathars' massacre, the inquisition, the modern era super intolerance.... I would say that their good things is largely outweight by the good things it did. Not that I am for its complete and uttermost abolition but let's keep a deep eye on it and let's not throw it too many flowers for its achievements.

You left out child rape.

OK #1 did you assholes even bother to watch the video? (If you did, I'm much more interested in what you thought of that rather than organized religion).

#2 I guess those bad things you mention would not exist had there never been religion....ergo invalidating your points. However I am equally disgusted with some of the things done "In the name of God"


I really would appreciate everyone's opinion of the Joseph Campbell video

Originally Posted by Lyle

OK #1 did you assholes even bother to watch the video? (If you did, I'm much more interested in what you thought of that rather than organized religion).

#2 I guess those bad things you mention would not exist had there never been religion....ergo invalidating your points. However I am equally disgusted with some of the things done "In the name of God"


I really would appreciate everyone's opinion of the Joseph Campbell video

I liked the video, though I probably didn't pay as much attention to it as I should. To situate myself in the discussion in the video, I would identify much more readily with Campbell's descriptions of Native religions and Shintoism and their perspectives on nature and human impulses than I would with those of Christianity or other "western" religions.

When I get the time I'd like to watch the entire conversation.

Originally Posted by Lyle

OK #1 did you assholes even bother to watch the video? (If you did, I'm much more interested in what you thought of that rather than organized religion).

#2 I guess those bad things you mention would not exist had there never been religion....ergo invalidating your points. However I am equally disgusted with some of the things done "In the name of God"


I really would appreciate everyone's opinion of the Joseph Campbell video

1) Yeah I did read Campbell's video. THe huge problem with this video is that he cautions only one version of religion without mentioning how and why it is better than the other versions (Islam, Judaism etc), he just take the holy trinity as granted and says we try to understand things from there (more or less) He also doesn't answer clearly to the question of the interpretation what is correct into all these scriptures, neither does he address the matter of how things have been translated and how it is phony in many circumstances.

2) Many of the mentioned things couldn't have happen without religion: the crusades were set to Unify the Christians by Urban the first because there was too internal strife, so they thought: "yeah, let's find a common enemy to make them walk hands in hands" so in the name of God, they did what they did. Same for women treatment, in the name of god they made her to do and endure horrible things. The problem with religion is that it's the very last and most important gate, the metaphysics anchoring of it all so many peoples will see everything else as irrelevant, laws or anything created by man and they will seek the authority that makes a bridge between them and the almighty.

As for the video overall, I like that it seems to be a moderated man talking quite frankly but there is a lot of argumentative flaws into his speech for my taste, perhaps is it a professional failure as I am used to dissect things too deeply in philosophy but to me, it lacks a bit of substance.

There are other videos where he addresses what you brought up. There is actually an entire series of videos that address many of the different issues regarding organized religion.

War, famine, poverty, rape, all of those bad things aren't mutually exclusive to religious societies and that's what I'm trying to get across to you...religion didn't bring those things about

Originally Posted by Nameless

Originally Posted by Lyle

OK #1 did you assholes even bother to watch the video? (If you did, I'm much more interested in what you thought of that rather than organized religion).

#2 I guess those bad things you mention would not exist had there never been religion....ergo invalidating your points. However I am equally disgusted with some of the things done "In the name of God"


I really would appreciate everyone's opinion of the Joseph Campbell video

1) Yeah I did read Campbell's video. THe huge problem with this video is that he cautions only one version of religion without mentioning how and why it is better than the other versions (Islam, Judaism etc), he just take the holy trinity as granted and says we try to understand things from there (more or less) He also doesn't answer clearly to the question of the interpretation what is correct into all these scriptures, neither does he address the matter of how things have been translated and how it is phony in many circumstances.

2) Many of the mentioned things couldn't have happen without religion: the crusades were set to Unify the Christians by Urban the first because there was too internal strife, so they thought: "yeah, let's find a common enemy to make them walk hands in hands" so in the name of God, they did what they did. Same for women treatment, in the name of god they made her to do and endure horrible things. The problem with religion is that it's the very last and most important gate, the metaphysics anchoring of it all so many peoples will see everything else as irrelevant, laws or anything created by man and they will seek the authority that makes a bridge between them and the almighty.

As for the video overall, I like that it seems to be a moderated man talking quite frankly but there is a lot of argumentative flaws into his speech for my taste, perhaps is it a professional failure as I am used to dissect things too deeply in philosophy but to me, it lacks a bit of substance.

<-Yeah, what he just said!

Originally Posted by Lyle

There are other videos where he addresses what you brought up. There is actually an entire series of videos that address many of the different issues regarding organized religion.

War, famine, poverty, rape, all of those bad things aren't mutually exclusive to religious societies and that's what I'm trying to get across to you...religion didn't bring those things about

There is things that are purely human so to speak and there is things which religion support. Religion support and foster many of these issues actually and some of these things are damn dangerous, especially for those who take scripture to the letter. For example: A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed.
(Deuteronomy 22:13-21).

Yeah, Religion supports tons of dubious things, it is not only a metaphysics vague concept, it is damn pragmatic in our life, sometimes.