So I guess the forum went mental again

[JazMerkin]

Well, I was off on holiday for the last week and a bit, enjoying a good 10 days away from the internet, meaning no more hourly checks on my phone on the latest boxingscene updates. What is amazing is that there has apparently been enough to require Saddo to create a whole new sub-section before the fight is even signed, despite the fact that there has been little progress since the last time I checked, apart from that bizarre Freddie Roach interview on doghouse.

Anyway, I'll leave most of my views on the Pac/PED scandal aside for now, although from what I've read, Killer, Miles & Kirkland have articulated most of how I feel (and the opposite goes for the handful of posters who appear to have lost their minds, and their credibility here, over it). I'm more concerned with how this has affected boxing as a sport. On the one hand, I've never heard so many people talking about it & should the fight take place on March 13, then we could be looking at truly unprecedented PPV figures. On the other hand, the damage to Manny Pacquiao's reputation, and through his clear position as one of the sport's current two poster boys, boxing's rep as a whole has been bad. I met quite a few people on my hols who we would class as casual sports fans, and they all seemed to think that Pacquiao is on something.

I think the most comparable event to how this whole scandal has hit Pacquiao is the Duran 'No Mas' incident against Leonard. I know people will talk about Tyson and a number of his actions, but those things essentially confirmed the ideas the general public already had about him. Duran was the epitome of a tough, he was huge off the back of the first fight with Leonard, so for him to quit as he did in front of the world was a massive shock to fans, and for years it was immensely damaging to his reputation. You could argue that only through being brutalized by Hearns, and engaging in those fights with Hagler and Barkley did he do enough to redeem his reputation a bit. Like Duran, Pacquiao is a non-US fighter who has captured the imagination of the American public. He's the nice guy who destroys men in the ring. His image was founded upon this, and this whole PED issue has hit him in a similar way to Duran, in that his actions are in complete contrast to the image we have of him.

Like I said, those above have basically expressed my opinion, he needs to take the tests (all of them) or there will always be heavy doubts. For me, there already are and on a personal level, I need him to take the tests and show me he's clean. Seeing him knockout Hatton live was one the best moments of 2009 for me, in what was a bad year personally. I really felt I'd witnessed something special, so much so that I still try to avoid seeing replays of the actual event, because I want to be able to hold onto my memory of it and more particularly, that final punch. I spent years of savings to go to Vegas and that fight, and I'd feel so cheated if I didn't know it was legit. Sadly, those doubts are already there.

Anyway, hopefully this mediator gets things signed and this forum goes back to normal and in March/May/Whenever, we get to see the defining fight for our generation.

PS. Sorry for another thread on this topic, hopefully there was at least some slightly new slant to it.

[Conrad]

Sadly, those doubts are already there.

Anyway, hopefully this mediator gets things signed and this forum goes back to normal and in March/May/Whenever, we get to see the defining fight for our generation..

Nice post Jaz and welcome back.

What's happened over the past couple of weeks really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Like you and countless others I hope Pacquiao agrees to take the tests as that's the only way he can restore his reputation. I can't really see any other route for him.

I too went to the Hatton fight and my credit card is at the ready again should this fight get announced. I personally believe Pac is innocent so I hate to think that his reputation will be forever tarnished by recent events.

I'm hoping we hear something soon from today's mediation

[0james0]

It's almost as if you wrote the post I'd been thinking about last couple of days! (without the Duran stuff) Quality stuff.

I'm exactly the same. I hate Mayweather a little bit more for being a dick and forcing the issue. Provoking all the thoughts everyone is having.

At the same time, personally, I need Manny to be far less cagey about having tests and just do them!

The fight willl 100% still happen though.

Also, having watched the Cotto fight again, I think Floyd will beat Manny by a unamimous or late stoppage of some kind, can't see a Hatton style KO, but a pull out of some sort.

[Kirkland Laing]

I've been away as well and I expected a lot more threads, posts etc. than there has been. I expected far more posting and general argument about it. I'm quite disappointed about the lack of discussion of it all actually.

I like the subforum thingy but think it's amazingly quiet considering this is a controversy for the ages as far as boxing is concerned.

I don't see the Duran thing being similar. He wasn't cheating anybody there unless you count quitting as cheating, he got where he was in the sport legally.

Here's what I think happened. Everything was going swimmingly when negotiations started in mid-November. The purse compromise had to happen but Mayweather gave ground on the weight, gloves, and the ten million a pound fine sticking points. But Manny wouldn't budge on the testing, and it was basically that one detail holding the whole thing up. I think as the days and weeks went over the Mayweathers but especially Golden Boy got more and more exasperated.

They'd had the whole history with Top Rank and with Manny in particular, the suitcase full of money, Manny going back to Top Rank and then beating a whole bunch of Golden Boy fighters. I think every time Manny beat a GBP fighter they were thinking what might have been if he'd been on their books and looked at the millions he was costing them by beating their guys and the money he was making for Arum.

Some Phillipino journalist says that the GBP chief Schaefer was telling him months ago that they thought Manny was on steroids. I think they became more and more convinced of this and when he refused random testing they thought "the fucker is taking something!" and pushed out the press statement that set this whole thing off. This definitely isn't stage-managed to generate publicity, Top Rank/Manny would never agree to get publicity by sliming Manny's reputation/earning power. You could see that it caused mass panic on the Top Rank side (he's scared of needles, he's superstitious etc.). If this was choreographed they'd have had a consistent sensible reply ready to go. And Manny would have quickly accepted random testing soon after.

It basically comes down to Manny refusing to take a test that he should have welcomed with open arms (no pun intended) to show the world he was clean and had nothing to hide. If he'd accepted it during initial negotiations it would have been a big psychological victory over Mayweather and it would have generated nothing but positive publicity for Manny, made him look really good. But this refusal to take the test, he's killing himself in the eyes of the PPV-buying public, in terms of how the general public see him and in terms of how he's seen when he retires and you've got to wonder why.

[TheBranMan]

I've been away as well and I expected a lot more threads, posts etc. than there has been. I expected far more posting and general argument about it. I'm quite disappointed about the lack of discussion of it all actually.

I like the subforum thingy but think it's amazingly quiet considering this is a controversy for the ages as far as boxing is concerned.

I don't see the Duran thing being similar. He wasn't cheating anybody there unless you count quitting as cheating, he got where he was in the sport legally.

Here's what I think happened. Everything was going swimmingly when negotiations started in mid-November. The purse compromise had to happen but Mayweather gave ground on the weight, gloves, and the ten million a pound fine sticking points. But Manny wouldn't budge on the testing, and it was basically that one detail holding the whole thing up. I think as the days and weeks went over the Mayweathers but especially Golden Boy got more and more exasperated.

They'd had the whole history with Top Rank and with Manny in particular, the suitcase full of money, Manny going back to Top Rank and then beating a whole bunch of Golden Boy fighters. I think every time Manny beat a GBP fighter they were thinking what might have been if he'd been on their books and looked at the millions he was costing them by beating their guys and the money he was making for Arum.

Some Phillipino journalist says that the GBP chief Schaefer was telling him months ago that they thought Manny was on steroids. I think they became more and more convinced of this and when he refused random testing they thought "the fucker is taking something!" and pushed out the press statement that set this whole thing off. This definitely isn't stage-managed to generate publicity, Top Rank/Manny would never agree to get publicity by sliming Manny's reputation/earning power. You could see that it caused mass panic on the Top Rank side (he's scared of needles, he's superstitious etc.). If this was choreographed they'd have had a consistent sensible reply ready to go. And Manny would have quickly accepted random testing soon after.

It basically comes down to Manny refusing to take a test that he should have welcomed with open arms (no pun intended) to show the world he was clean and had nothing to hide. If he'd accepted it during initial negotiations it would have been a big psychological victory over Mayweather and it would have generated nothing but positive publicity for Manny, made him look really good. But this refusal to take the test, he's killing himself in the eyes of the PPV-buying public, in terms of how the general public see him and in terms of how he's seen when he retires and you've got to wonder why.

Good post by both, although in reference to the Pac/Duran comparison, I think that Jaz was talking more about the element of a contradiction of character, rather than comparing their actual wrong-doings. Ethically, (IMO) cheating by utilizing banned substances during training dwarfs merely quitting out of frustration.