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Thread: I'm not ANTI-Haye or ANTI-Wlad. I just wanted a good fight.... damn it.

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    Default I'm not ANTI-Haye or ANTI-Wlad. I just wanted a good fight.... damn it.

    Let's set the record straight. I'm not against any of these fighters. But you have to consider the backdrop to this fight. Let's go through the facts one by one:

    1. The heavyweight division is in a sorry state and has been for years. The fact that the Klitschkos are so dominant does nothing to change this fact. In fact, it makes even worse, because the division is composed of the Klitschkos on top of the hill, and a bunch of scared, blubbery (for the most part), has-beens and wannabes.

    2. The general public is only interested in the heavyweight division. If the division was better, maybe more fans would gravitate toward boxing and the sport would benefit in general.

    3. Haye has been doing his trash-talking for years.... calling out the Klitschkos, and in the process generating a lot of interest and anticipation among the public about a fight that was a LONG TIME in the making.

    4. Some of us (myself included) would have probably WELCOMED a Haye victory. Anything to inject a much-needed boost into the heavyweight division and boxing in general.

    5. Had Haye been more aggresive, and tried to win..... one of two things would've happened:

    a) He would've gotten KO'ed.
    b) He would've KO'ed Wlad.


    Either way, the fight would've been great, and fan interest would've been stoked.

    You see..... this was way bigger than just Wlad vs. Haye. This was the first significant fight of any interest in the HW division in years. You can name all the other HW's put together. The Arreolas, the Chambers, the Valuevs, blah, blah, blah.

    So far it's been nothing but a long line of failures..... a succesion of "lamb-like" victims, being led to slaughter. Why is any of this so hard to understand.

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    Default Re: I'm not ANTI-Haye or ANTI-Wlad. I just wanted a good fight.... damn it.

    About boxing and the general public. Boxing will be in a very sorry state after the Klit bros, Pac, and Floyd retire. I don't see any dominant HW on the horizon and don't see anyone at the lower weights with the star power and abilities as the 2 divas. That is all.

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    Default Re: I'm not ANTI-Haye or ANTI-Wlad. I just wanted a good fight.... damn it.

    I don't really see the point you are making. Wlad beat Haye because he simply too big, too good and the better fighter. I don't think Haye could have done anything different in all honesty.

    Would you have preferred that there had been no hype? No intense rivalry for the past few years? No massive fight that got everybody talking?

    You would have rather Haye would have quietly gone about his business and we'd have had no excitement or potential excitiment for the past couple years at all?

    Because I disagree completely.

    The Wlad Haye rivalry has been the only fun thing in the heavyweight division for the past few years. It generated interested and you seem to be wishing it had never happened now becuase Wlad dominated in the fight?

    That's silly.

    Haye talked a great fight, he fought a disappointing one, but one that was realistic considering the disparity in size and skill.

    He's at least given us plenty to talk about the last three years or so so I don't see how it's been bad for boxing.

    If you are disappointed he didn't put up a better effort, then imagine how he feels.

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    Default Re: I'm not ANTI-Haye or ANTI-Wlad. I just wanted a good fight.... damn it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo View Post
    I don't really see the point you are making. Wlad beat Haye because he simply too big, too good and the better fighter. I don't think Haye could have done anything different in all honesty.

    Would you have preferred that there had been no hype? No intense rivalry for the past few years? No massive fight that got everybody talking?

    You would have rather Haye would have quietly gone about his business and we'd have had no excitement or potential excitiment for the past couple years at all?

    Because I disagree completely.

    The Wlad Haye rivalry has been the only fun thing in the heavyweight division for the past few years. It generated interested and you seem to be wishing it had never happened now becuase Wlad dominated in the fight?

    That's silly.

    Haye talked a great fight, he fought a disappointing one, but one that was realistic considering the disparity in size and skill.

    He's at least given us plenty to talk about the last three years or so so I don't see how it's been bad for boxing.

    If you are disappointed he didn't put up a better effort, then imagine how he feels.

    Then I'll put it this way:

    For all the shit Haye talked for years BEFORE the fight, his effort was less than spectacular, let's put it that way. He built up the fight by insulting the Klits and talking more than trash than the city dump. He single-handedly got people interested in a HW fight for the first time in years.

    And then he delivered nothing. Rounds with one punch thrown....... shameful diving and dozens of looks at the referee, as if it were Wlad's fault. Lame excuses about toes, when real fighters have fought with broken hands and bum legs.

    If you're going to talk the talk, you'd damn better walk the walk. ESPECIALLY when you've dragged a whole fan base with you, and spent years building the event. You don't seem to understand that a good effort, regardless of the outcome, would have generated at least a bit of respect for Haye. But as well put by one of your countrymen: He fought like a pussy.

    Now...... what is it about my point you do not understand.

    ?

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    Default Re: I'm not ANTI-Haye or ANTI-Wlad. I just wanted a good fight.... damn it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo View Post
    I don't really see the point you are making. Wlad beat Haye because he simply too big, too good and the better fighter. I don't think Haye could have done anything different in all honesty.

    Would you have preferred that there had been no hype? No intense rivalry for the past few years? No massive fight that got everybody talking?

    You would have rather Haye would have quietly gone about his business and we'd have had no excitement or potential excitiment for the past couple years at all?

    Because I disagree completely.

    The Wlad Haye rivalry has been the only fun thing in the heavyweight division for the past few years. It generated interested and you seem to be wishing it had never happened now becuase Wlad dominated in the fight?

    That's silly.

    Haye talked a great fight, he fought a disappointing one, but one that was realistic considering the disparity in size and skill.

    He's at least given us plenty to talk about the last three years or so so I don't see how it's been bad for boxing.

    If you are disappointed he didn't put up a better effort, then imagine how he feels.

    Then I'll put it this way:

    For all the shit Haye talked for years BEFORE the fight, his effort was less than spectacular, let's put it that way. He built up the fight by insulting the Klits and talking more than trash than the city dump. He single-handedly got people interested in a HW fight for the first time in years.

    And then he delivered nothing. Rounds with one punch thrown....... shameful diving and dozens of looks at the referee, as if it were Wlad's fault. Lame excuses about toes, when real fighters have fought with broken hands and bum legs.

    If you're going to talk the talk, you'd damn better walk the walk. ESPECIALLY when you've dragged a whole fan base with you, and spent years building the event. You don't seem to understand that a good effort, regardless of the outcome, would have generated at least a bit of respect for Haye. But as well put by one of your countrymen: He fought like a pussy.

    Now...... what is it about my point you do not understand.

    ?
    Although I cannot excuse Haye's falling to the ground,
    I would like to point out sir, that Wlad was quite comfortable fighting for a win on points.
    So if fighting cautiously is equal to fighting like a pussy, what does that mean for Wlad?
    Oh, Im sorry. Of course it's only fighting like a pussy if you lose on points without going for the KO.

    And may I add that there is no rule stating that a fighter must use the tactic they claimed they would while talking trash.

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    Default Re: I'm not ANTI-Haye or ANTI-Wlad. I just wanted a good fight.... damn it.

    It was shit. Shocker.

    Both guys fought shit scared for 11 rounds (Haye more so than Wlad but that's not saying much), Haye showed a little life in the 12th but even then Wlad outmanned him. Dreadful stuff from Haye.

    Also the flopping was awful, because at first it looked like a ref had finally manned up and refused to put up with Wlad's bullshit. But then Haye decided to go into gigantic bitch mode which made a farce of the whole thing.

    I should have stuck with my rule of watching no heavyweight fights. The two I've watched in the last year or so were Odlanier Solis vs Ray Austin and this one and they were both soul crushing. I should have put on the Style channel.

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    Default Re: I'm not ANTI-Haye or ANTI-Wlad. I just wanted a good fight.... damn it.

    Haha good post. What regard did people have for Haye to begin with if he put up a better effort than they expected? It was an abortion ffs.

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    Default Re: I'm not ANTI-Haye or ANTI-Wlad. I just wanted a good fight.... damn it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo View Post
    I don't really see the point you are making. Wlad beat Haye because he simply too big, too good and the better fighter. I don't think Haye could have done anything different in all honesty.

    Would you have preferred that there had been no hype? No intense rivalry for the past few years? No massive fight that got everybody talking?

    You would have rather Haye would have quietly gone about his business and we'd have had no excitement or potential excitiment for the past couple years at all?

    Because I disagree completely.

    The Wlad Haye rivalry has been the only fun thing in the heavyweight division for the past few years. It generated interested and you seem to be wishing it had never happened now becuase Wlad dominated in the fight?

    That's silly.

    Haye talked a great fight, he fought a disappointing one, but one that was realistic considering the disparity in size and skill.

    He's at least given us plenty to talk about the last three years or so so I don't see how it's been bad for boxing.

    If you are disappointed he didn't put up a better effort, then imagine how he feels.

    Then I'll put it this way:

    For all the shit Haye talked for years BEFORE the fight, his effort was less than spectacular, let's put it that way. He built up the fight by insulting the Klits and talking more than trash than the city dump. He single-handedly got people interested in a HW fight for the first time in years.

    And then he delivered nothing. Rounds with one punch thrown....... shameful diving and dozens of looks at the referee, as if it were Wlad's fault. Lame excuses about toes, when real fighters have fought with broken hands and bum legs.

    If you're going to talk the talk, you'd damn better walk the walk. ESPECIALLY when you've dragged a whole fan base with you, and spent years building the event. You don't seem to understand that a good effort, regardless of the outcome, would have generated at least a bit of respect for Haye. But as well put by one of your countrymen: He fought like a pussy.

    Now...... what is it about my point you do not understand.

    ?
    Exactly!!! That's why I actually respect Ricky Hatton more with his courageous efforts vs PBF and PAC despite being sparked out. At least he actually tried tried to win, Haye is a fucking shame.
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    Default Re: I'm not ANTI-Haye or ANTI-Wlad. I just wanted a good fight.... damn it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pavlik View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo View Post
    I don't really see the point you are making. Wlad beat Haye because he simply too big, too good and the better fighter. I don't think Haye could have done anything different in all honesty.

    Would you have preferred that there had been no hype? No intense rivalry for the past few years? No massive fight that got everybody talking?

    You would have rather Haye would have quietly gone about his business and we'd have had no excitement or potential excitiment for the past couple years at all?

    Because I disagree completely.

    The Wlad Haye rivalry has been the only fun thing in the heavyweight division for the past few years. It generated interested and you seem to be wishing it had never happened now becuase Wlad dominated in the fight?

    That's silly.

    Haye talked a great fight, he fought a disappointing one, but one that was realistic considering the disparity in size and skill.

    He's at least given us plenty to talk about the last three years or so so I don't see how it's been bad for boxing.

    If you are disappointed he didn't put up a better effort, then imagine how he feels.

    Then I'll put it this way:

    For all the shit Haye talked for years BEFORE the fight, his effort was less than spectacular, let's put it that way. He built up the fight by insulting the Klits and talking more than trash than the city dump. He single-handedly got people interested in a HW fight for the first time in years.

    And then he delivered nothing. Rounds with one punch thrown....... shameful diving and dozens of looks at the referee, as if it were Wlad's fault. Lame excuses about toes, when real fighters have fought with broken hands and bum legs.

    If you're going to talk the talk, you'd damn better walk the walk. ESPECIALLY when you've dragged a whole fan base with you, and spent years building the event. You don't seem to understand that a good effort, regardless of the outcome, would have generated at least a bit of respect for Haye. But as well put by one of your countrymen: He fought like a pussy.

    Now...... what is it about my point you do not understand.

    ?
    Exactly!!! That's why I actually respect Ricky Hatton more with his courageous efforts vs PBF and PAC despite being sparked out. At least he actually tried tried to win, Haye is a fucking shame.

    I didn't see Hatton do anything more offensively than Haye did The only difference is he suffered two admittedly hilarious and entertaining knockouts, the first where he ko'd himself into the ring post, and the second where he was sprawled out flat on his back in true comedic style.

    Upto that point what was he doing to make the fights entertaining other than getting his ass kicked though?

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    Default Re: I'm not ANTI-Haye or ANTI-Wlad. I just wanted a good fight.... damn it.

    Haye attempted 290 punches. 290 punches over 12 rounds. That is it. He never upped the attack to a satisfactorily level to try to win.

    Don't get me wrong, he wanted to win. But he was only willing to try to land a hail mary shot here and there to do it.

    I have watched the fight multiple times and Haye had a moment of truth after round 4. He had just won round 3 and round 4 was even (with people scoring the fight scoring it for either guy). He could have tried to take it up a notch, but he didn't. Why? Wlad landed a couple of good right hands in round 5 and Haye wasn't willing to stand up to those to try to win the fight.

    Haye reminds me of almost all guys that fight Wlad. When Wlad lands the right hand with something on it, as he did in round 4 and 5, then they are more than content to move and not get hit with the right hand (allowing themselves to be jabbed only).

    I have more respect for a fighter like Tony Thompson who won a couple of rounds, but got dominated as the fight progressed. He continued to try to win the fight(and didn't play keep away like most of Wlad's opponents) but didn't have the skills to do so. He made Wlad work and got KO'd.

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    Default Re: I'm not ANTI-Haye or ANTI-Wlad. I just wanted a good fight.... damn it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pavlik View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo View Post
    I don't really see the point you are making. Wlad beat Haye because he simply too big, too good and the better fighter. I don't think Haye could have done anything different in all honesty.

    Would you have preferred that there had been no hype? No intense rivalry for the past few years? No massive fight that got everybody talking?

    You would have rather Haye would have quietly gone about his business and we'd have had no excitement or potential excitiment for the past couple years at all?

    Because I disagree completely.

    The Wlad Haye rivalry has been the only fun thing in the heavyweight division for the past few years. It generated interested and you seem to be wishing it had never happened now becuase Wlad dominated in the fight?

    That's silly.

    Haye talked a great fight, he fought a disappointing one, but one that was realistic considering the disparity in size and skill.

    He's at least given us plenty to talk about the last three years or so so I don't see how it's been bad for boxing.

    If you are disappointed he didn't put up a better effort, then imagine how he feels.

    Then I'll put it this way:

    For all the shit Haye talked for years BEFORE the fight, his effort was less than spectacular, let's put it that way. He built up the fight by insulting the Klits and talking more than trash than the city dump. He single-handedly got people interested in a HW fight for the first time in years.

    And then he delivered nothing. Rounds with one punch thrown....... shameful diving and dozens of looks at the referee, as if it were Wlad's fault. Lame excuses about toes, when real fighters have fought with broken hands and bum legs.

    If you're going to talk the talk, you'd damn better walk the walk. ESPECIALLY when you've dragged a whole fan base with you, and spent years building the event. You don't seem to understand that a good effort, regardless of the outcome, would have generated at least a bit of respect for Haye. But as well put by one of your countrymen: He fought like a pussy.

    Now...... what is it about my point you do not understand.

    ?
    Exactly!!! That's why I actually respect Ricky Hatton more with his courageous efforts vs PBF and PAC despite being sparked out. At least he actually tried tried to win, Haye is a fucking shame.

    I didn't see Hatton do anything more offensively than Haye did The only difference is he suffered two admittedly hilarious and entertaining knockouts, the first where he ko'd himself into the ring post, and the second where he was sprawled out flat on his back in true comedic style.

    Upto that point what was he doing to make the fights entertaining other than getting his ass kicked though?
    It would've been more entertaining if one of them got sparked like Hatton.

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    Default Re: I'm not ANTI-Haye or ANTI-Wlad. I just wanted a good fight.... damn it.

    Oh I agree that had Haye been ko'd in brutal fashion it would have made the fight far more entertaining. I just don't see how such a loss would have been better for David Haye?

    It seems people here are arguing they would have respected him more, if like Ricky Hatton he would have given them something to have a good laugh at.

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    Default Re: I'm not ANTI-Haye or ANTI-Wlad. I just wanted a good fight.... damn it.

    People must realize that nobody really wants to see boxing nowadays in the heavyweight division. They want to see a slugfest where people get knocked out. It isn't really about boxing pugilism in the heavyweight division. They don't want to see a boxer that can counter punch they want to see constant knockouts. Broken toe or not broken toe. To those that say pull out if you had a broken toe. Had he pulled out a second time from the fight he would be facing a bigger crap storm than he is facing right now.

    The fact the heavyweight division is missing "action" that people will flock to any knockout artist and tout them as the future of the division. It is sort of like the heavyweight division after Jack Dempsey. Gene Tunney was a really good boxer, but he was a pure boxer, and that's not what people wanted with the Heavyweight division, they wanted boxing.

    In the lower weight classes, defense and counter punching is even touted by some people, but not at heavyweight. It's the stereotype of the heavyweight division that every fight be an exciting blood and guts sort of thing.

    For every boxing pugilist that Lennox Lewis was, he was also a knockout artist that finished people when he got them and had thudding power when he used it.

    For as boring a heavyweight as people called Lewis, he had very few true stinkers. People can point out the Tua fight but that's about it that really was boring to watch and Tua has a great chin but whenever Lewis felt he was gonna finish someone he took it, even against Briggs who hurt him earlier, Lewis stood in, hands down grinning before knocking him down again. THAT is what people want to see when they think of a heavyweight champion and Lewis was every bit of it.

    Contrasting that with Wladimir, people fell in love with the idea of him when they saw him steamrolling competition and knocking them out and being aggressive. But since being knocked out twice, he seemed to take a more backwards approach. What annoys people the most is that he has the ability and the height to dominate everyone just as bad if not worse than Lewis did but he seemed more content with boxing his way to victory, now this would be accepted more, if he hadn't been such an offensive destroying machine early in his career and hyped as the only man that stood a chance against Lennox Lewis. When you are brought up in the media as this destructive offensive force and then you resort to fighting the way he does now, people are still thinking about how Wladimir used to be and feel slighted whenever they watch a fight from him.

    Fact is, fans never learn to truly appreciate the entire skillset of a fighter when they are bulldozing people, and are quick to assume and only want to think of seeing them blow competition away. People don't want to remember him for how good of a boxer he is, people want to remember him by memorable knockouts. And when you don't really have the personality that screams to pay attention to him, people want results and knockouts and Wladimir wasn't putting on performances to make up for his lack of media personality.

    This is why people and casual boxing fans gravitated to Haye over him. One because of his attitude was he talked a lot, and got people to pay attention, say what you will but the heavyweight division NEEDED David Haye for that time. Because he had a mouth and was delivering knockouts, and like I said, the casual fan doesn't pay attention to anything else. When you watch Sportscenter or highlights which is how most casual fans saw a glimpse of Haye, they saw him nearly knocking out a 7 footer, they saw him stopping John Ruiz, they saw him knocking out Maccarineli regardless of that fight being at cruiserweight. So that's what the casual boxing fan wanted, they expected him to come out all guns blazing, not knowing a think about his style or the way he fights. Us boxing fans that go to boxing forums and stuff like that don't take up the majority of boxing fans, we take up the minority. The most active boxing forums are full of people that have no idea what they are talking about and seem to be like kids. Most people don't watch fights, they don't watch styles, they just go by what ESPN tells them or they flip flop between watching MMA.

    But it is how the media also decides to promote the fight. Those of us who actually have watched Haye fight know he likes to stay on the outside and pick his spots, and know he isn't the most active puncher, but he produced knockouts and that's all the media paid attention to and all they wanted to hype.

    There's no effort in promoting a boxing match other than to promote both fighters as knockout artists, and people flock to it and act shocked when they watch a fight that turns out that way. When the reality is anyone who paid attention to boxing or the styles of the fighters would have expected no less really.

    But that's the thing, today's young fans have a shorter attention span and need something to give it a spark. The truth is, if Wladimir was a talker, he talked crap and did antics, and then went out and dominated people while talking to them in the ring, he would probably get more attention and be more loved. Is it right? No. But that's how it is. You have to know how to sell a fight or be dominant. And you only get away with being humble if you go out there and slug or look for the knockout. If you are anything less in terms of your style, you have to be a character or people won't buy your fights it's that simple, because humble and pure boxer doesn't sell no matter how good you are nowadays.

    It's saddening how much of a turn the sport has made in terms of its fans, but it's the future. As sad as it is.
    Life is still worth while If You Just Smile - MJ

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    Default Re: I'm not ANTI-Haye or ANTI-Wlad. I just wanted a good fight.... damn it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Majesty View Post
    People must realize that nobody really wants to see boxing nowadays in the heavyweight division. They want to see a slugfest where people get knocked out. It isn't really about boxing pugilism in the heavyweight division. They don't want to see a boxer that can counter punch they want to see constant knockouts. Broken toe or not broken toe. To those that say pull out if you had a broken toe. Had he pulled out a second time from the fight he would be facing a bigger crap storm than he is facing right now.

    The fact the heavyweight division is missing "action" that people will flock to any knockout artist and tout them as the future of the division. It is sort of like the heavyweight division after Jack Dempsey. Gene Tunney was a really good boxer, but he was a pure boxer, and that's not what people wanted with the Heavyweight division, they wanted boxing.

    In the lower weight classes, defense and counter punching is even touted by some people, but not at heavyweight. It's the stereotype of the heavyweight division that every fight be an exciting blood and guts sort of thing.

    For every boxing pugilist that Lennox Lewis was, he was also a knockout artist that finished people when he got them and had thudding power when he used it.

    For as boring a heavyweight as people called Lewis, he had very few true stinkers. People can point out the Tua fight but that's about it that really was boring to watch and Tua has a great chin but whenever Lewis felt he was gonna finish someone he took it, even against Briggs who hurt him earlier, Lewis stood in, hands down grinning before knocking him down again. THAT is what people want to see when they think of a heavyweight champion and Lewis was every bit of it.

    Contrasting that with Wladimir, people fell in love with the idea of him when they saw him steamrolling competition and knocking them out and being aggressive. But since being knocked out twice, he seemed to take a more backwards approach. What annoys people the most is that he has the ability and the height to dominate everyone just as bad if not worse than Lewis did but he seemed more content with boxing his way to victory, now this would be accepted more, if he hadn't been such an offensive destroying machine early in his career and hyped as the only man that stood a chance against Lennox Lewis. When you are brought up in the media as this destructive offensive force and then you resort to fighting the way he does now, people are still thinking about how Wladimir used to be and feel slighted whenever they watch a fight from him.

    Fact is, fans never learn to truly appreciate the entire skillset of a fighter when they are bulldozing people, and are quick to assume and only want to think of seeing them blow competition away. People don't want to remember him for how good of a boxer he is, people want to remember him by memorable knockouts. And when you don't really have the personality that screams to pay attention to him, people want results and knockouts and Wladimir wasn't putting on performances to make up for his lack of media personality.

    This is why people and casual boxing fans gravitated to Haye over him. One because of his attitude was he talked a lot, and got people to pay attention, say what you will but the heavyweight division NEEDED David Haye for that time. Because he had a mouth and was delivering knockouts, and like I said, the casual fan doesn't pay attention to anything else. When you watch Sportscenter or highlights which is how most casual fans saw a glimpse of Haye, they saw him nearly knocking out a 7 footer, they saw him stopping John Ruiz, they saw him knocking out Maccarineli regardless of that fight being at cruiserweight. So that's what the casual boxing fan wanted, they expected him to come out all guns blazing, not knowing a think about his style or the way he fights. Us boxing fans that go to boxing forums and stuff like that don't take up the majority of boxing fans, we take up the minority. The most active boxing forums are full of people that have no idea what they are talking about and seem to be like kids. Most people don't watch fights, they don't watch styles, they just go by what ESPN tells them or they flip flop between watching MMA.

    But it is how the media also decides to promote the fight. Those of us who actually have watched Haye fight know he likes to stay on the outside and pick his spots, and know he isn't the most active puncher, but he produced knockouts and that's all the media paid attention to and all they wanted to hype.

    There's no effort in promoting a boxing match other than to promote both fighters as knockout artists, and people flock to it and act shocked when they watch a fight that turns out that way. When the reality is anyone who paid attention to boxing or the styles of the fighters would have expected no less really.

    But that's the thing, today's young fans have a shorter attention span and need something to give it a spark. The truth is, if Wladimir was a talker, he talked crap and did antics, and then went out and dominated people while talking to them in the ring, he would probably get more attention and be more loved. Is it right? No. But that's how it is. You have to know how to sell a fight or be dominant. And you only get away with being humble if you go out there and slug or look for the knockout. If you are anything less in terms of your style, you have to be a character or people won't buy your fights it's that simple, because humble and pure boxer doesn't sell no matter how good you are nowadays.

    It's saddening how much of a turn the sport has made in terms of its fans, but it's the future. As sad as it is.
    salute!
    [SIGPIC]
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    Default Re: I'm not ANTI-Haye or ANTI-Wlad. I just wanted a good fight.... damn it.

    Dude that was long ...I just watched Bert Cooper vs Ray Mercer and Tommy Morrison vs Joe Hipp...it helped.

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