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Thread: Jeff Lacy vs. Antwun Echols (primes) ?

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    Default Jeff Lacy vs. Antwun Echols (primes) ?

    Who would have been the last man standing if these two had met up at their very best ?

    Lacy had a little size on Echols, and the better chin no doubt.

    Echols was a truly explosive puncher though and would have been middleweight champion if not for Bernard Hopkins.

    I'm torn on this one. How about you guys ?
    "You knocked him down...now how bout you try knockin me down ?"

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    Default Re: Jeff Lacy vs. Antwun Echols (primes) ?

    Well you basically have to guage Lacy's entire worth as a relevant contender by the fact that he got his ass beat by Calzaghe. I really think he was kind of shit in hindsight, and while his chin was maybe a bit better than Echols it's not by much, certainly not enough to take his punch. Omar Sheika had Lacy all over the place and arguably beat him, there was another low level journeyman I cant recall who had him badly hurt.. Can't imagine Echols wouldn't have landed big first and therefore won by KO.

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    Default Re: Jeff Lacy vs. Antwun Echols (primes) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking View Post
    Well you basically have to guage Lacy's entire worth as a relevant contender by the fact that he got his ass beat by Calzaghe. I really think he was kind of shit in hindsight, and while his chin was maybe a bit better than Echols it's not by much, certainly not enough to take his punch. Omar Sheika had Lacy all over the place and arguably beat him, there was another low level journeyman I cant recall who had him badly hurt.. Can't imagine Echols wouldn't have landed big first and therefore won by KO.
    I don't think that is a fair assesment of Jeff Lacy.

    It was a hell of a battle and a close fight with Sheika, and I was rooting for Sheika that night, but even I felt Lacy won by a round or two.

    And Sheika was not a "low level journeyman" and neither was Syd Vanderpool, who I imagine is the other name you are thinking of.

    What about when Lacy DESTROYED Robin Reid and Scott Pemberton ?

    A ton of people on this forum picked Reid to beat Lacy, and yes the ref in that fight was atrocious, but Reid got pummelled just the same.

    Lacy was a good fighter, just not as good as some of us thought he was.
    "You knocked him down...now how bout you try knockin me down ?"

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    Default Re: Jeff Lacy vs. Antwun Echols (primes) ?

    I think Lacy demolishes Echols. You didn't have to do anything spectacular to get to an awkward tall tree swaying in gusty winds like Echols but deal with power and have high output. Echols often had two left feet and while he could bang...he wasn't exactly banging out guys with thick chins and was often in trouble himself prior. Lacy could have his ears boxed but I don't think Echols was one to do it and eventually ends up on the ropes getting worked over as he's throwing upperhooks from his ankles.

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    Default Re: Jeff Lacy vs. Antwun Echols (primes) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking View Post
    Well you basically have to guage Lacy's entire worth as a relevant contender by the fact that he got his ass beat by Calzaghe. I really think he was kind of shit in hindsight, and while his chin was maybe a bit better than Echols it's not by much, certainly not enough to take his punch. Omar Sheika had Lacy all over the place and arguably beat him, there was another low level journeyman I cant recall who had him badly hurt.. Can't imagine Echols wouldn't have landed big first and therefore won by KO.
    I don't think that is a fair assesment of Jeff Lacy.

    It was a hell of a battle and a close fight with Sheika, and I was rooting for Sheika that night, but even I felt Lacy won by a round or two.

    And Sheika was not a "low level journeyman" and neither was Syd Vanderpool, who I imagine is the other name you are thinking of.

    What about when Lacy DESTROYED Robin Reid and Scott Pemberton ?

    A ton of people on this forum picked Reid to beat Lacy, and yes the ref in that fight was atrocious, but Reid got pummelled just the same.

    Lacy was a good fighter, just not as good as some of us thought he was.
    Just checked boxrec, it was Donnell Wiggins, I clearly remember he had Lacy in big trouble at one point at least. What about destroying an old Reid and mediocre Pemberton? It doesn't really speak to his worth as a relevant title contender whatsoever imo. I think the Lacy vs Calzaghe fight is a prime example of what kind of influence hype has over even informed critics. I was barely into boxing when that fight happened really so I can't attest to what people said about it, but in hindsight it's painfully obvious Lacy was never in Calzaghes league.

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    Default Re: Jeff Lacy vs. Antwun Echols (primes) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking View Post
    Well you basically have to guage Lacy's entire worth as a relevant contender by the fact that he got his ass beat by Calzaghe. I really think he was kind of shit in hindsight, and while his chin was maybe a bit better than Echols it's not by much, certainly not enough to take his punch. Omar Sheika had Lacy all over the place and arguably beat him, there was another low level journeyman I cant recall who had him badly hurt.. Can't imagine Echols wouldn't have landed big first and therefore won by KO.
    I don't think that is a fair assesment of Jeff Lacy.

    It was a hell of a battle and a close fight with Sheika, and I was rooting for Sheika that night, but even I felt Lacy won by a round or two.

    And Sheika was not a "low level journeyman" and neither was Syd Vanderpool, who I imagine is the other name you are thinking of.

    What about when Lacy DESTROYED Robin Reid and Scott Pemberton ?

    A ton of people on this forum picked Reid to beat Lacy, and yes the ref in that fight was atrocious, but Reid got pummelled just the same.

    Lacy was a good fighter, just not as good as some of us thought he was.
    Just checked boxrec, it was Donnell Wiggins, I clearly remember he had Lacy in big trouble at one point at least. What about destroying an old Reid and mediocre Pemberton? It doesn't really speak to his worth as a relevant title contender whatsoever imo. I think the Lacy vs Calzaghe fight is a prime example of what kind of influence hype has over even informed critics. I was barely into boxing when that fight happened really so I can't attest to what people said about it, but in hindsight it's painfully obvious Lacy was never in Calzaghes league.
    Oh yes the Wiggins fight was embarassing, but he still KO'd Wiggins.

    You weren't watching boxing when Lacy was coming up through my friend, so how can you speak on how good or bad he was ?

    Spicoli makes a good point, Echols had a weak chin and terrible balance. He did have a lot of heart and a ton of power though.

    This fight would have been a war while it lasted.
    "You knocked him down...now how bout you try knockin me down ?"

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    Default Re: Jeff Lacy vs. Antwun Echols (primes) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking View Post
    Well you basically have to guage Lacy's entire worth as a relevant contender by the fact that he got his ass beat by Calzaghe. I really think he was kind of shit in hindsight, and while his chin was maybe a bit better than Echols it's not by much, certainly not enough to take his punch. Omar Sheika had Lacy all over the place and arguably beat him, there was another low level journeyman I cant recall who had him badly hurt.. Can't imagine Echols wouldn't have landed big first and therefore won by KO.
    I don't think that is a fair assesment of Jeff Lacy.

    It was a hell of a battle and a close fight with Sheika, and I was rooting for Sheika that night, but even I felt Lacy won by a round or two.

    And Sheika was not a "low level journeyman" and neither was Syd Vanderpool, who I imagine is the other name you are thinking of.

    What about when Lacy DESTROYED Robin Reid and Scott Pemberton ?

    A ton of people on this forum picked Reid to beat Lacy, and yes the ref in that fight was atrocious, but Reid got pummelled just the same.

    Lacy was a good fighter, just not as good as some of us thought he was.
    Just checked boxrec, it was Donnell Wiggins, I clearly remember he had Lacy in big trouble at one point at least. What about destroying an old Reid and mediocre Pemberton? It doesn't really speak to his worth as a relevant title contender whatsoever imo. I think the Lacy vs Calzaghe fight is a prime example of what kind of influence hype has over even informed critics. I was barely into boxing when that fight happened really so I can't attest to what people said about it, but in hindsight it's painfully obvious Lacy was never in Calzaghes league.
    Oh yes the Wiggins fight was embarassing, but he still KO'd Wiggins.

    You weren't watching boxing when Lacy was coming up through my friend, so how can you speak on how good or bad he was ?

    Spicoli makes a good point, Echols had a weak chin and terrible balance. He did have a lot of heart and a ton of power though.

    This fight would have been a war while it lasted.
    Well going by that premise, my friend, unless the average member of this forum is in there ninties I don't think I'm the worst culprit. How can you speak of how good or bad anyone was? I'm pretty sure we're around the same age, I'm just 23.. So the vast majority of fighters that I enjoy watching most weren't actually coming up as I got into boxing, clearly. If anything though, I think you are in a better position to assess a fighter if removed from the hype that surrounded him coming up. Of course you can't use that to detract from his opposition at the time, it's a fine line. Fact is Lacy was badly hurt by several fairly average world level fighters, and got absolutely clowned by the only real elite guys he ever faced. Obviously he had a great hook and was built like a rock, but it's pretty elementary to say he was overhyped.

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    Default Re: Jeff Lacy vs. Antwun Echols (primes) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking View Post
    Well you basically have to guage Lacy's entire worth as a relevant contender by the fact that he got his ass beat by Calzaghe. I really think he was kind of shit in hindsight, and while his chin was maybe a bit better than Echols it's not by much, certainly not enough to take his punch. Omar Sheika had Lacy all over the place and arguably beat him, there was another low level journeyman I cant recall who had him badly hurt.. Can't imagine Echols wouldn't have landed big first and therefore won by KO.
    I don't think that is a fair assesment of Jeff Lacy.

    It was a hell of a battle and a close fight with Sheika, and I was rooting for Sheika that night, but even I felt Lacy won by a round or two.

    And Sheika was not a "low level journeyman" and neither was Syd Vanderpool, who I imagine is the other name you are thinking of.

    What about when Lacy DESTROYED Robin Reid and Scott Pemberton ?

    A ton of people on this forum picked Reid to beat Lacy, and yes the ref in that fight was atrocious, but Reid got pummelled just the same.

    Lacy was a good fighter, just not as good as some of us thought he was.
    Just checked boxrec, it was Donnell Wiggins, I clearly remember he had Lacy in big trouble at one point at least. What about destroying an old Reid and mediocre Pemberton? It doesn't really speak to his worth as a relevant title contender whatsoever imo. I think the Lacy vs Calzaghe fight is a prime example of what kind of influence hype has over even informed critics. I was barely into boxing when that fight happened really so I can't attest to what people said about it, but in hindsight it's painfully obvious Lacy was never in Calzaghes league.
    Oh yes the Wiggins fight was embarassing, but he still KO'd Wiggins.

    You weren't watching boxing when Lacy was coming up through my friend, so how can you speak on how good or bad he was ?

    Spicoli makes a good point, Echols had a weak chin and terrible balance. He did have a lot of heart and a ton of power though.

    This fight would have been a war while it lasted.
    Well going by that premise, my friend, unless the average member of this forum is in there ninties I don't think I'm the worst culprit. How can you speak of how good or bad anyone was? I'm pretty sure we're around the same age, I'm just 23.. So the vast majority of fighters that I enjoy watching most weren't actually coming up as I got into boxing, clearly. If anything though, I think you are in a better position to assess a fighter if removed from the hype that surrounded him coming up. Of course you can't use that to detract from his opposition at the time, it's a fine line. Fact is Lacy was badly hurt by several fairly average world level fighters, and got absolutely clowned by the only real elite guys he ever faced. Obviously he had a great hook and was built like a rock, but it's pretty elementary to say he was overhyped.
    Take a deep breath and calm down

    I'll be 24 next month so I'm older. So respect your Elders.

    Good point, you didn't have to be watching Boxing when Lacy was in his prime to judge his ability. But, it helps.

    Why ?

    Because Jeff Lacy was a phenom in the 168 lb weight class for a very brief time in boxing history. He was a very exciting fighter to watch, powerful, and overhyped. However, after the 12 round beating he took from Calzaghe, and after ruining his left shoulder, he was never the same.

    Watching Lacy in all of his big fights as they happened gave me a different perspective than looking back on them all knowing the results.
    "You knocked him down...now how bout you try knockin me down ?"

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    Default Re: Jeff Lacy vs. Antwun Echols (primes) ?

    Haha it's just my posting style, not a strong suite I suppose. I rarely get heated about anything boxing related don't worry My point was that if he fought Calzaghe a hundred times he would've got the same beating dished out every time, just based on what he was. Of course it took something out of him.. But he wasn't a fighter built to last or to really contend at the elite level imo, matter of time before it happened. You don't really refute my point either, all you are saying is that you were personally caught up in the hype and enjoyed watching him fight. I can attest to the latter as well, nothing against the guy.

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