Thread: Addressing the PED problem

There's many articles out there on the web regarding the widespread use of PEDs in boxing and other sports.
Most of these articles seem to support a few basic premises:




1. The use of PEDs is widespread and increasing, not only in boxing, but in most every other sport.

2. Testing for PEDs is a complex undertaking, as there are many ways the athletes use to either mask or circumvent established limits.

3. In boxing, the use of PEDs has more serious connotations than in any other sport. In cycling, you get better times... in baseball, you hit more home runs... but in boxing, the consequences can be a lot more serious.

4. To effectively address the problem, testing entities and sport organizations need to understand the problem and agree on the solutions.



I've heard the argument that everyone (in boxing) does it. I wouldn't go that far. I think there's a handful of clean, elite fighters out there. But as time passes, and nothing (or little) is being done to solve the problem, these clean boxers might feel the pressure and find no other recourse than to do PEDs themselves.

I know it doesn't solve the whole problem, but I think testing should be mandatory before EVERY fight, no exceptions. I think this is a no-brainer. If you're clean, giving a little blood (or urine, or both) shouldn't bother you at all. The complicating factor, I think, is what type of testing to perform with the blood and/or urine samples, as from what I read there are many ways to "cheat the system". I'm by no means an expert on physiology, so that would have to be left to the people that know.

Bottom line, though, is that something needs to be done.
And if the solution has "bugs" in it, then tweak it until you get it right.

I hate to say it, but I don't know what can be done. More stringent testing costs a lot of $$$. Who's going to fit the bill? The promoters won't. Neither will the fighters. And even if you do shell out the extra $$$, the more stringent testing can still be cheated.

I feel like it's a losing battle. It's like alcohol prohibition early last century. Athletes want to use PEDs, and they'll continue to use them and avail of all the latest tricks to circumvent the testing. There's no "magic bullet" solution. People will get caught, sure, and examples will be made of those caught, but in reality that's just the tip of the iceberg.

I don't believe for a second that PED usage is some kind of epidemic that just popped up over the last few years. It's recieving a lot more attention, sure, but PEDs have been around for many years, and I'm sure there are plenty of our favorite fighters, legends even, who used but didn't get caught do to lax testing back in the day.

And that's not even getting into the issue of hormone replacement therapy. You can go to a doctor, tell him you feel tired all the time, and boom you have a legal perscription to inject testosterone, which is fine with any Athletic Commision as long as you show them your perscription and get an exemption.

I just don't see how you can stamp it out.

For example, both Marquez and Pacquaio passed their drug tests for the fight. But what does that show? It shows they didn't have anything in their system at the time of the fight.

But what does that prove? It's just a simple matter of cycling off at the right time. You can use PEDs in training, gain a lot of muscle and strength, then cycle off. So by the time of the fight, there's nothing in your system.

But what about the 15lbs of muscle you gained from PED usage, as well as the other physical benefits? That's still there. It doesn't disappear overnight.

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

For example, both Marquez and Pacquaio passed their drug tests for the fight. But what does that show? It shows they didn't have anything in their system at the time of the fight.

But what does that prove? It's just a simple matter of cycling off at the right time. You can use PEDs in training, gain a lot of muscle and strength, then cycle off. So by the time of the fight, there's nothing in your system.

But what about the 15lbs of muscle you gained from PED usage, as well as the other physical benefits? That's still there. It doesn't disappear overnight.

You make some good points on both posts. But the cost issue is to me one of the easiest to take care of. Cost should be no object when it comes to looking out for the safety of the guys in the ring. With the existence of multi-million dollar purses nowadays, it shouldn't be too much of a reach to set aside some money for whatever testing is necessary.

Testing should be mandatory. It's the way fighters circumvent the rules, as we both stated, that complicates matters a whole lot. It's like everything else in life. As soon as a rule or law comes out..... it seems like a matter of days or hours that you have a way to beat it, or go around it. It's like viruses and anti-viruses on computers. It's kind of discouraging in a way.

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

For example, both Marquez and Pacquaio passed their drug tests for the fight. But what does that show? It shows they didn't have anything in their system at the time of the fight.

But what does that prove? It's just a simple matter of cycling off at the right time. You can use PEDs in training, gain a lot of muscle and strength, then cycle off. So by the time of the fight, there's nothing in your system.

But what about the 15lbs of muscle you gained from PED usage, as well as the other physical benefits? That's still there. It doesn't disappear overnight.

Clean it up or ignore it?
All of us know that most trainers, promoters and commissioners are, if not facilitating, turning a blind-eye to the use of PEDS. How can these people be punished, convinced, coerced or educated into changing their attitudes.
I have to say that I don't trust any one in boxing to clean up the PEDs problem.
In the US, it's going to take a government body to oversee PEDs use in all pro sports. Make pro sports pay for it, they're allowing it. Ultimately the fans will wind up paying, we always do.
Do we want them to do away with PEDs or not? That's a serious question, I know there are some of us--fans--who don't care one way or the other.
Clean it up or ignore it?

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

For example, both Marquez and Pacquaio passed their drug tests for the fight. But what does that show? It shows they didn't have anything in their system at the time of the fight.

But what does that prove? It's just a simple matter of cycling off at the right time. You can use PEDs in training, gain a lot of muscle and strength, then cycle off. So by the time of the fight, there's nothing in your system.

But what about the 15lbs of muscle you gained from PED usage, as well as the other physical benefits? That's still there. It doesn't disappear overnight.

You make some good points on both posts. But the cost issue is to me one of the easiest to take care of. Cost should be no object when it comes to looking out for the safety of the guys in the ring. With the existence of multi-million dollar purses nowadays, it shouldn't be too much of a reach to set aside some money for whatever testing is necessary.

Testing should be mandatory. It's the way fighters circumvent the rules, as we both stated, that complicates matters a whole lot. It's like everything else in life. As soon as a rule or law comes out..... it seems like a matter of days or hours that you have a way to beat it, or go around it. It's like viruses and anti-viruses on computers. It's kind of discouraging in a way.

Look, when we say testing, lets all get on the same page.
If you want testing to make sure your favorite fighter doesn't get cheated in a big fight, that's one thing.
I'm talking about cleaning out PEDs from the four rounders thru the mega fights, that's zero tolerance which means a lot of testing and a lot of money, forever.
There is a difference!

We need tougher deterrents. For example, the punishment for failing drug tests needs to be more severe. Instead of six months or no punishment (Peterson), there needs to be, for example, a 1.5 year minimum suspension for the first offense and 3 years for next offense. If the fighter is caught prior to a fight, and the promoter elects to go through with the fight, a large percentage of the fighter's purse needs to be forfeited, say 65% or something.

Let's be honest, passing a piss test these days, doesn't mean Pacquiao and Marquez were clean for that fight. It would be delusional to think so.

Originally Posted by beenKOed

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

For example, both Marquez and Pacquaio passed their drug tests for the fight. But what does that show? It shows they didn't have anything in their system at the time of the fight.

But what does that prove? It's just a simple matter of cycling off at the right time. You can use PEDs in training, gain a lot of muscle and strength, then cycle off. So by the time of the fight, there's nothing in your system.

But what about the 15lbs of muscle you gained from PED usage, as well as the other physical benefits? That's still there. It doesn't disappear overnight.

You make some good points on both posts. But the cost issue is to me one of the easiest to take care of. Cost should be no object when it comes to looking out for the safety of the guys in the ring. With the existence of multi-million dollar purses nowadays, it shouldn't be too much of a reach to set aside some money for whatever testing is necessary.

Testing should be mandatory. It's the way fighters circumvent the rules, as we both stated, that complicates matters a whole lot. It's like everything else in life. As soon as a rule or law comes out..... it seems like a matter of days or hours that you have a way to beat it, or go around it. It's like viruses and anti-viruses on computers. It's kind of discouraging in a way.

Look, when we say testing, lets all get on the same page.
If you want testing to make sure your favorite fighter doesn't get cheated in a big fight, that's one thing.
I'm talking about cleaning out PEDs from the four rounders thru the mega fights, that's zero tolerance which means a lot of testing and a lot of money, forever.
There is a difference!

Whatever the level of testing is, it should be administered equally across the board. Obviously, more is better. Testing with ulterior motives means nothing.

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

We need tougher deterrents. For example, the punishment for failing drug tests needs to be more severe. Instead of six months or no punishment (Peterson), there needs to be, for example, a 1.5 year minimum suspension for the first offense and 3 years for next offense. If the fighter is caught prior to a fight, and the promoter elects to go through with the fight, a large percentage of the fighter's purse needs to be forfeited, say 65% or something.

I don't think its fair to throw the fighter under the bus when imo many of the promoters know full well whats going on and no doubt also the governing leeches. In addition these conditioning coaches that have fighters take the B12 shot in the ass for certain periods of time. It may sound naive but based on the intelligent quotient of some of these fighters, I'd be willing to bet many do not even know whats being injected.

The money has to come from somewhere, though. It's very expensive to do testing, and if you want to stamp it out from the sport all together (including the 4 rounders), we're talking about an astronomical amount of funds.

If we say the government should step in and do it, what makes you think the tax payers will want to foot that bill?

I think, for the most part, there isn't enough demand. PEDs allow for bigger, faster, and stronger athletes which (usually) means more excitement. They also allow our favorite fighters to prolong their careers and provide us with many more fights.

The entire Ped issue where boxing is concerned resembles a straw man argument when “cost” becomes the cop out go to line. As if somehow cost refutes the need. I mean that’s direct testimony that the powers at be don’t want more stringent testing.

Tests presently are window dressing. We know this to be true because random testing rarely catches anyone. So how would scheduled? Only idiots who screw up their cycles get caught like Salido. And that’s only because they do not employ the top rate chemists err nutritionists/conditioning coaches.

The WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO and the rest of the parasitical underling fringe Orgs should be the ones flipping the bill and it should be at the heart of the sanctioning process instead of designing more belts to collect more fees on. Promoters should also share some of the costs. It should not be incumbent on any fighter to have to fork out the cash. Start with all title fights using random testing and then it will I believe over time it would cause a trickle down effect. It would also force more labs to be built which is another built in excuse as to why random testing is not feasible. Its as if a system is in place that is designed to be exploited.

Sadly I think it will take a fatality in the ring before congress gets serious about it and they'll be forced to do a clean up of sorts.

It was recently estimated by VADA that roughly 375 UFC fighters could be random blood and urine tested twice each year, with annual costs of somewhere between $1 to 1.5 million dollars.

Max Boxing - News - Azad Championship Report - Floyd Mayweather and the new wave of drug testing in boxing

Test the top-rated thousand boxers a dozen times a year and it's less than twenty million a year. Pay for it by billing each individual promotion on a sliding scale depending on how much the promotion makes in revenue (obviously Pac Marquez 4 pays a huge slice compared to some non-TV event that features some of the top thousand boxers) and it would work out as a really small promotional expense.

Originally Posted by IamInuit

The entire Ped issue where boxing is concerned resembles a straw man argument when “cost” becomes the cop out go to line. As if somehow cost refutes the need. I mean that’s direct testimony that the powers at be don’t want more stringent testing.

It's a real issue though. We're talking about a HUGE amount of money that has to come from somewhere.

It won't come from the promoters, the fighters, or the government (they'll ban boxing before they shell out millions to provide more drug testing).

Where does it come from? I have no idea.