Thread: Why is the HW division not dominated by a 200lb plodder?

Joe Louis has been described as one of the greatest HW's of all time by the old timers.

But if that is so then why isn't the division today dominated by and populated with 200lb plodders anymore like Louis?

You see, the OTNB (Old Time Nut-Bag) community has never been able to formulate a coherent answer to this question?

The question can be further extended to other boxers...

Why is it not populated/dominated by 185lb plodders like MArciano?
Or 210lb string beans with no power or proper defence like Ali?
Or 5'10" 205lb handicaps with no power or chin or skills like Frazier?

Basically if these blueprints for fighters would be so effective today... Where are they?

None of these styles were particularly uncopyable or special! So simple physical laws suggest that they should be there kicking ass!!

Its because the HWs have become bigger, more athletic and fluid for these smaller guys to deal with.

Back in the primitive era, the average HWs were below 6"3 so it was easy for the Louiss and the marcianos to compete but today we are living in a whole different era with different breeds.

I still have drinks with my old basketball coach from high school and this dude is always trying to convince me that Bill Russell is better than Hakeem Olajuan. Well I tell him no he's fuckin not with all due respect lol.

Bill rusell would be lucky to be the 6th man in the modern NBA team, probably a bench warmer.

Guys like Byrd and Chambers found success at about 205-215lbs but sure enough, they were defensive masters. They stole rounds by making their opponents miss all night and scoring with pitty pat punches and were never a serious threat from a KO perspective.

This is in stark contrast to olden guys of those eras who were considered "Punchers" or otherwise lead with their faces.

I understand the reverence but not the favourable comparisons with current fighters.

The first truly serious opponent Evander Holyfield faced at HW, Riddick Bowe, he weighed 205lbs. That was a steroid pumped 205lbs, not like the 205 we used to see at "HW" previously.

Before that Evander was not really respected as the great champion he'd become yet and most still viewed Mike Tyson as the rightful champ.

At 205lbs Evander was seriously challenged by Bowe. It was a wise decision for him to bulk up to 215 for his rematch in which he scored a narrow victory.

Because we have a 6'6 240+ version of a backfoot plodder Chambers a defensive 'master' Come on man. Good thing he dropped to his "natural" cruiser division to be schooled by some unknown at his own game. If only he could break eggs with a shot eh

OTNB also known as the BSS. Bert Sugar Syndrome.

Can u not admit that some human specimens are just more suited to be boxers? 2 fighters with exactly the same traits are not gonna be equally good in the ring. So I ask you this question max. Why has no one come close to the Klits in the last 10 years? We have guys just as big and fast as them but are nowhere near as good? How can this be? They are freaks? As was Rocky Marciano. A 185 pounder who stopped great heavyweights like Joe Louis, Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles and retired unbeaten. Your logic is purely based on size but David Haye a small heavyweight beat Valuev, the biggest heavyweight. Skill wise ur logic is also pretty poor because plodders can beat more skilled boxers, big punchers can get beaten by people who couldn't crack an egg. I'm not saying the old timers beat modern fighters but I'm not saying vice versa either. I don't know. No one does.

I have made a point not to argue strictly with size elsewhere.

This thread was heavily oriented toward the size thing, sure, of course there are ppl with greater natural ability, or greater skill set etc etc.

One of the main reasons the Klitschko's were so good when other HW's aren't though which should be obvious is their strong amateur pedigree.

We see this also with Muhammad Ali, he was already a very experienced boxer by the time he became a pro!

A lot of these giant boxers today up and coming who think they can one day dominate like LEwis or Klits don't have such a grounding like that. They have the Hasim Rahman syndrome. A good boxer, a champion, but his late start and short ammy career did not afford him some of the intuitive skills that the others had, the simple things are still cerebral to them.

Anthony Joshua is one of those. His size will take him far. But I'd be surprised if we will see the same level of dominance from him if he does make it!

I also think that the size and power punching of modern fighters has had a profound effect on the skills of modern fighters.

Yesteryear it was perfectly acceptable to take shots all night long, Marciano did, Ali did, Frazier did, even Louis was a bit of a sucker for a right hand at times.

Today, fighters by necessity MUST develop a defensive game because they can't be taking those kind of shots anymore.

Originally Posted by Max Power

Joe Louis has been described as one of the greatest HW's of all time by the old timers.

But if that is so then why isn't the division today dominated by and populated with 200lb plodders anymore like Louis?

You see, the OTNB (Old Time Nut-Bag) community has never been able to formulate a coherent answer to this question?

The question can be further extended to other boxers...

Why is it not populated/dominated by 185lb plodders like MArciano?
Or 210lb string beans with no power or proper defence like Ali?
Or 5'10" 205lb handicaps with no power or chin or skills like Frazier?

Basically if these blueprints for fighters would be so effective today... Where are they?

None of these styles were particularly uncopyable or special! So simple physical laws suggest that they should be there kicking ass!!

A monkey can answer that question. How the hell can a 185 pounder dominate the heavyweight division of today when we have 6 foot 7 250 pounders in there?

Originally Posted by Max Power

Joe Louis has been described as one of the greatest HW's of all time by the old timers.

But if that is so then why isn't the division today dominated by and populated with 200lb plodders anymore like Louis?

You see, the OTNB (Old Time Nut-Bag) community has never been able to formulate a coherent answer to this question?

The question can be further extended to other boxers...

Why is it not populated/dominated by 185lb plodders like MArciano?
Or 210lb string beans with no power or proper defence like Ali?
Or 5'10" 205lb handicaps with no power or chin or skills like Frazier?

Basically if these blueprints for fighters would be so effective today... Where are they?

None of these styles were particularly uncopyable or special! So simple physical laws suggest that they should be there kicking ass!!

Guys nowadays are better trained and have better diets... so they move faster and quicker. Plus these guys nowadays, while athletic, can't really fight... it's a smash em game in the Heavies. You hit or get ko'd. Simple.

Joe Louis could REALLY fight... the last we have seen with "smaller" guys fighting in the Heavies was with the Tyson and Holyfield era- it ended with Moorer- and Moorer and Holyfield weren't really "that" small.

You probably won't see a Heavy win a title that's under 6 foot 2 and under 230 pounds in a very long, LONG time.

food is cheaper, average person is bigger, taller and unfortunately fatter.

OTNB (Old Time Nut-Bag) I got one for you WANKER.

Originally Posted by Max Power

Joe Louis has been described as one of the greatest HW's of all time by the old timers.

But if that is so then why isn't the division today dominated by and populated with 200lb plodders anymore like Louis?

You see, the OTNB (Old Time Nut-Bag) community has never been able to formulate a coherent answer to this question?

The question can be further extended to other boxers...

Why is it not populated/dominated by 185lb plodders like MArciano?
Or 210lb string beans with no power or proper defence like Ali?
Or 5'10" 205lb handicaps with no power or chin or skills like Frazier?

Basically if these blueprints for fighters would be so effective today... Where are they?

None of these styles were particularly uncopyable or special! So simple physical laws suggest that they should be there kicking ass!!

Sir, you are what we OTNBs call a YK (Young Knothead), why in the hell would anyone try to answer or explain anything so damned obvious. Yes, some of us OTNBs drink too much, or get our MEDS mixed up, or our bodies hurt and we want to argue, or do a little trolling when we run on about the sorry state of the heavies and the heavies themselves, but do you really think they can't see the difference in the size and weight of the modern heavy and what that means?
You used to hear "a good big man will beat a good small man" when talking about a difference of 20lbs, if you talk about the modern heavies compared to earlier heavies the difference can be 60lbs!
There were a couple of exceptions Willard and Carnera, both dismissed for their size with Carnera thought to have shady connections.
There is noway for you to come out ahead if you start calling Louis, Marciano, Ali and Frazier bums, you are asking everyone to dismiss the rest of what you have to say as more BS, in my opinion.

I'm not calling them bums, they all had great records didn't they, they were all world champs at one time.