Muhammad Ali Appreciation thread.

[Bill Paxtom]

Great man indeed. Facing Ali is probably the best testament. Take the good with the bad. He had a horrible mouth, demeaned fighters in the most shallow of ways.

But no one complained about the paydays they got fighting Ali.

Ken Norton "Me and my son were eating hotdogs regular until the Ali fight. After Ali we ate steak regularly."


My favorite comes from Ron Lyle- when asked if he thought the fight was stopped prematurely he stated if it weren't for Ali, would you be talking to me now? 'bout what?

BTW- that straight right hand Ali landed on Lyle that sent him reeling- was heavy handed- followed by a hellatious flurry. He knew how to end a fight when a fighter got hurt.

Chickie Ferrera >

If it was anybody else that we were fighting, they would have never stopped it.

[IamInuit]

Great man indeed. Facing Ali is probably the best testament. Take the good with the bad. He had a horrible mouth, demeaned fighters in the most shallow of ways.

But no one complained about the paydays they got fighting Ali.

Ken Norton "Me and my son were eating hotdogs regular until the Ali fight. After Ali we ate steak regularly."


My favorite comes from Ron Lyle- when asked if he thought the fight was stopped prematurely he stated if it weren't for Ali, would you be talking to me now? 'bout what?

BTW- that straight right hand Ali landed on Lyle that sent him reeling- was heavy handed- followed by a hellatious flurry. He knew how to end a fight when a fighter got hurt.

Chickie Ferrera >
If it was anybody else that we were fighting, they would have never stopped it.

You really are to much. I invite you to FAST FORWARD to say 3:30 and then witness what unfolds. That is the trouble with you clinical obsessive type regardless of cause. You repeat the same bullshit so many times that you actually genuinely believe it. Its called "sincere delusion"

[Bill Paxtom]

see; Chickie Ferrera

> Alan King >
"I have Ron Lyle ahead. No doubt. Ali came back and did some damage in the middle rounds > 6, 7 and 8. But yes, I have Lyle ahead Howard."

Alan King .......... A Good and Honest Man.

[Master]

Ali beat some top fighters after he beat Foreman. Lyle went life and death with Foreman.

Ali was amazing.

Why can't you see Bill?

Why?

Why?

[Bill Paxtom]

Ali beat some top fighters after he beat Foreman. Lyle went life and death with Foreman.

Ali was amazing.

Why can't you see Bill?

Why?

Why?

Muhammad Ali

Fact > George Foreman beat himself, and lost.

Fact > Ron Lyle was an old-and-slow guy, who was coming off an embarrassing loss to Jimmy Young.

Fact > Muhammad Ali was amazingly durable, and could absorb punches like nobody's business.

Fact > I can see.

Why > Because it has to be said.

[Master]

Foreman beat himself? Ali was just there and had nothing to do with it? Joker.

[Bill Paxtom]

Foreman beat himself? Ali was just there and had nothing to do with it? Joker.

Oh, come on Master.

It was Roy 'Tiger' Williams who showed Cassius how to lay on the Ropes and ride with the punches
in Kinshasa, Zaire.

Roy 'Tiger' Williams >

"I told Cassius. Let the 'Big Oaf' punch himself out. He'll be sucking heavy air by the 5th Round. You won't even have to hit him. He'll fall all by himself a few Rounds later."

[Master]

Foreman beat himself? Ali was just there and had nothing to do with it? Joker.

Oh, come on Master.

It was Roy 'Tiger' Williams who showed Cassius how to lay on the Ropes and ride with the punches
in Kinshasa, Zaire.

Roy 'Tiger' Williams >

"I told Cassius. Let the 'Big Oaf' punch himself out. He'll be sucking heavy air by the 5th Round. You won't even have to hit him. He'll fall all by himself a few Rounds later."

Williams was not in the ring taking the punches from Ali.

[johnsebastianmiran]

We all know the stories,the draft, the exile, the religion and on and on. I admired Ali even though I was a Marine grunt during Vietnam. There is one question I have to ask all of you. Let's just say that all was resolved and forgiven, how much of his prime would really shock us as far as his ability was supposed to be? Many people say that he was in his prime when this mess started with the draft but I am not wondering if he was in his prime because I believed he never reached it. How much better could he have been and those of you with a boxing background know exactly what I mean. For what he accomplished, he intrigued many but he was deprived so what if he was allowed to reach his prime how much better than those all time greats could he have become or not.

[TitoFan]

We all know the stories,the draft, the exile, the religion and on and on. I admired Ali even though I was a Marine grunt during Vietnam. There is one question I have to ask all of you. Let's just say that all was resolved and forgiven, how much of his prime would really shock us as far as his ability was supposed to be? Many people say that he was in his prime when this mess started with the draft but I am not wondering if he was in his prime because I believed he never reached it. How much better could he have been and those of you with a boxing background know exactly what I mean. For what he accomplished, he intrigued many but he was deprived so what if he was allowed to reach his prime how much better than those all time greats could he have become or not.

Two things to derive from the bolded statement:

1. You're fairly up there in age.
2. You of all people could've been forgiven for holding Ali's beliefs against him, but you don't. Good for you for being an open-minded person.

As for the rest of the post, that is a very good and interesting question. Just yesterday they had a segment on ESPN where they were theorizing on just how many more stats baseball players like Ted Williams and Willie Mays would've amassed had they not lost years of peak performance while serving in the Armed Forces. Part of the Veterans Day coverage, I guess. Personally, I think the Ali that resumed his career after serving his time away from boxing was noticeably different than the Ali previous to that. You're right... he was never allowed to reach his peak. He was still developing as a professional fighter when his career was abruptly interrupted. Once he came back, he was a different fighter.

He had less of the movement that had served him well against Liston. He also became more dependent on his "moving the head back" defense. I think he actually overdid it at times, because # 1 it didn't always work, and # 2 because it left him open for all kinds of body shots. When younger he could spring back mongoose-like and convert the "move the head back" into an offensive shot of his own. When older, he couldn't do that as much. He was bigger when he came back, so there was a tendency to sit more on his punches and rely on his power, which was never all that much to begin with.

There's no telling either way, but it's not far-fetched to think he could've handled Joe Frazier with relative ease, even in their first fight, had he not had that time off from boxing.

[Master]

Ali would have beaten Frazier earlier and there would not have been the same intense rivalry. Ali would have more title defences and Ali probably would have slipped and lost to Norton and then fought Big George for the title in Zaire. Ali may have retired earlier as well.

The time stream would go back to normal.

[brocktonblockbust]

At the rate Ali was fighting if he had not gone gotten suspended from boxing he would easily have fought to six or seven more times from 1967 until 1970 period six or seven more good fight would have put more wear and tear on him. This means that by the time George Foreman was ready to fight for the title Ali would not have been able to withstand that kind of a brute force.

[Master]

At the rate Ali was fighting if he had not gone gotten suspended from boxing he would easily have fought to six or seven more times from 1967 until 1970 period six or seven more good fight would have put more wear and tear on him. This means that by the time George Foreman was ready to fight for the title Ali would not have been able to withstand that kind of a brute force.

You would be amazed by the endurance and courage Ali had.

[johnsebastianmiran]

Thanks for your responses on Ali and I believe we agree totally and with what I don't usually deal with, the what if's but this fun guys, being fans.

[C.J.Rock]

We all know the stories,the draft, the exile, the religion and on and on. I admired Ali even though I was a Marine grunt during Vietnam. There is one question I have to ask all of you. Let's just say that all was resolved and forgiven, how much of his prime would really shock us as far as his ability was supposed to be? Many people say that he was in his prime when this mess started with the draft but I am not wondering if he was in his prime because I believed he never reached it. How much better could he have been and those of you with a boxing background know exactly what I mean. For what he accomplished, he intrigued many but he was deprived so what if he was allowed to reach his prime how much better than those all time greats could he have become or not.

We were deprived of seeing the best of Muhammad Ali sadly BUT What we did see far overshadows any other fighter I have ever seen