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Thread: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Have you seen title fights that Wlad has been in? The challengers have been truly awful.
    Er.. I have seen all of Wladimirs title fights and the opponents are not awful because I've seen their OTHER fights as well.

    When you put it all together you come to realise that it is only because Wladimir is so unbelievably good and formidable that he makes them look easy to beat.
    "Enough with the games mate! Your messing with the Grand Master!"

    Lennox Lewis

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max Power View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Have you seen title fights that Wlad has been in? The challengers have been truly awful.
    Er.. I have seen all of Wladimirs title fights and the opponents are not awful because I've seen their OTHER fights as well.

    When you put it all together you come to realise that it is only because Wladimir is so unbelievably good and formidable that he makes them look easy to beat.
    Wlad is good although anyone remotely dangerous he normally goes into a shell but the challengers are awful, truly pathetic.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Max Power View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Have you seen title fights that Wlad has been in? The challengers have been truly awful.
    Er.. I have seen all of Wladimirs title fights and the opponents are not awful because I've seen their OTHER fights as well.

    When you put it all together you come to realise that it is only because Wladimir is so unbelievably good and formidable that he makes them look easy to beat.
    Wlad is good although anyone remotely dangerous he normally goes into a shell but the challengers are awful, truly pathetic.
    As much as I respect Wlad, I am a bit compromised to name the fights worthy of looking back on.

    On one hand he cleaned the entire division out weak or not.

    But I'm not sure who the best name is on his resume.

    I think Peter would've been touted as a Nigerian Nightmare without K2 to fight, but WK did the job.

    Calvin Brock had decent power, but I questione his desire, when he lost to Fat Eddie Chamber, I mean Fast Eddie..

    I'm hard pressed to say that Tarver @ HW would've defeated every name on his resume. The James Toney that beat Ruiz also would've beatan every name.

    David Haye is a question mark. Solid power, I kinda credit WK for punking him, but then again Carl Thompson stopped him, Mormeck dropped him. And everybody whooped Enzo Macrinelli & Monte Barrett so what is Haye's defining fight? Audley Harrison & Chisora?

    An old past it Mercer & bufalo-but Botha also to add to WK's resume, but not WK's fault.

    I'd say Chris Byrd, Sam Peter & David Haye are WK's signature wins.

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimTrae View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Max Power View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Have you seen title fights that Wlad has been in? The challengers have been truly awful.
    Er.. I have seen all of Wladimirs title fights and the opponents are not awful because I've seen their OTHER fights as well.

    When you put it all together you come to realise that it is only because Wladimir is so unbelievably good and formidable that he makes them look easy to beat.
    Wlad is good although anyone remotely dangerous he normally goes into a shell but the challengers are awful, truly pathetic.
    As much as I respect Wlad, I am a bit compromised to name the fights worthy of looking back on.

    On one hand he cleaned the entire division out weak or not.

    But I'm not sure who the best name is on his resume.

    I think Peter would've been touted as a Nigerian Nightmare without K2 to fight, but WK did the job.

    Calvin Brock had decent power, but I questione his desire, when he lost to Fat Eddie Chamber, I mean Fast Eddie..

    I'm hard pressed to say that Tarver @ HW would've defeated every name on his resume. The James Toney that beat Ruiz also would've beatan every name.

    David Haye is a question mark. Solid power, I kinda credit WK for punking him, but then again Carl Thompson stopped him, Mormeck dropped him. And everybody whooped Enzo Macrinelli & Monte Barrett so what is Haye's defining fight? Audley Harrison & Chisora?

    An old past it Mercer & bufalo-but Botha also to add to WK's resume, but not WK's fault.

    I'd say Chris Byrd, Sam Peter & David Haye are WK's signature wins.
    LOL Although I have acknowledged your support of another GREAT era, I find your postings at times MORE deleterious than the OTNB at times. This is an example. Bummifying the Klitschko era to pump up the 90's, a modern argument with far greater OPINION based analysis involved than merely nostalgist smashing requires.

    Wlad's toplist can be assembled from 1 to 2 in many ways depending on feeling. But atleast these following opponents..

    Samuel Peter, Tony Thompson, Kubrat Pulev, Alexander Povetkin, David Haye, Sultan Ibragimov, Ruslan Chagaev, Chris Byrd, Eddie Chambers deserve special attention. These were superb boxers who would have fared just as well in the 90's.

    There are other opponents like iron chinned tall+hefty Wach, unbeaten strong man Pianeta, Brock, basically all of the big strong and unbeaten or nearly unbeaten fighters that Wladimir has dispatched are obviously not going to be cannon fodder for 90's HW's, just bloody look at them, even a picture analysis is enough to see that they would be formidable for any 90's HW to defeat. Only LEnnox Lewis at his best beats all comers from the Klitschko era and he was certainly not always, as any boxer is, at his best either so it's just as plausible if Rahman and McCall can KO him, Mavrovic can survive him, even Frank bloody Bruno can have him in trouble, then I am 100% positive that these guys can maintain a competitive fight with him too.

    Think of this...

    Haye destroys Grant
    Thompson beats up Tyson that Lennox and Holyfield fought
    Chagaev outboxes Golota
    Chambers outboxes Tua every day a week
    Ibragimov has already beaten Briggs and Holyfield (not in their athletic primes but in their most experienced and roided.

    I could go on!

    Losing to Chambers is no shame for Brock. Chambers is a defensive master and one of the fastest heavies of all time. It is no consequence if he is fat or ripped. This is boxing, performance is all that matters.

    James Toney was simply a factor at HW but was never a HW elite.

    Tarver is not a factor at all and that is a stinking insult to the modern HW division.

    David Haye aside from the HW champ, only ever lost at a much earlier in career and inexperienced time (hardly any rounds fought at pro) at Cruiserweight vs a VETERAN good boxer in Thompson, which as I always say is more important than anything else in match ups. And getting caught and knocked down by Mormeck is no shame either, who is a comparable opponent to Moorer! You cannot criticise Haye on fighting great opponents at HW, knocking most of them out, then fighting a selection of giant boxers and knocking most them out as well by drawing conclusions off of 1 KO loss to decent opponent and a KD vs one as well, get real!

    I can weigh in with pros and cons of the 90's, 00's and 10's boxers equally, pick one and we'll try it together if you like!
    "Enough with the games mate! Your messing with the Grand Master!"

    Lennox Lewis

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    I'm @Max Power .

    My mom told me I was very smart as a child and I believed her.

    I have a magical brain and a magical keyboard and every thought it think and every word I type is magically true, no matter how little based in reality they are.

    Everyone on the forum may think I'm wrong, but I know(and my mom agrees) that I'm right and it's all of you that are wrong.

    I'm @Max Power, and I'm right!
    Last edited by ruthless rocco; 12-20-2014 at 04:11 AM.

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ruthless rocco View Post
    I'm @Max Power .

    My mom told me I was very smart as a child and I believed her.

    I have a magical brain and a magical keyboard and every thought it think and every word I type is magically true, no matter how little based in reality they are.

    Everyone on the forum may think I'm wrong, but I know(and my mom agrees) that I'm right and it's all of you that are wrong.

    I'm @Max Power, and I'm right!
    I don't care much for majority opinion on the forum. Other places are biased the other way round and does that make them right?

    It's simply my opinion which I happen to argue where possible with available evidence.
    "Enough with the games mate! Your messing with the Grand Master!"

    Lennox Lewis

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Quote Originally Posted by ruthless rocco View Post
    I'm @Max Power .

    My mom told me I was very smart as a child and I believed her.

    I have a magical brain and a magical keyboard and every thought it think and every word I type is magically true, no matter how little based in reality they are.

    Everyone on the forum may think I'm wrong, but I know(and my mom agrees) that I'm right and it's all of you that are wrong.

    I'm @Max Power, and I'm right!
    I don't care much for majority opinion on the forum. Other places are biased the other way round and does that make them right?

    It's simply my opinion which I happen to argue where possible with available evidence.

    If you don't agree with it, you are free to argue with your own statistics if you can!
    "Enough with the games mate! Your messing with the Grand Master!"

    Lennox Lewis

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Max I just do not know what to say to you.

    Haye destroys Grant
    Thompson beats up Tyson that Lennox and Holyfield fought
    Chagaev outboxes Golota
    Chambers outboxes Tua every day a week
    Ibragimov has already beaten Holyfield ! Evander was old.

    You make bill Paxton look sensible.

    Merry Christmas.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Max I just do not know what to say to you.

    Haye destroys Grant
    Thompson beats up Tyson that Lennox and Holyfield fought
    Chagaev outboxes Golota
    Chambers outboxes Tua every day a week
    Ibragimov has already beaten Holyfield ! Evander was old.

    You make bill Paxton look sensible.

    Merry Christmas.
    Merry Christmas to you too..

    Those are plausible outcomes for that sample of fights.

    Holyfield was old? I did say he was not in his ATHLETIC prime but he was more experienced and roided to the hilt. Ibragimov was an excellent boxer, as was Holyfield.
    "Enough with the games mate! Your messing with the Grand Master!"

    Lennox Lewis

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimTrae View Post
    I'd say Chris Byrd, Sam Peter & David Haye are WK's signature wins.
    I would say povetkin should be in the top two, he had a great amateur career at super heavyweight, olympic and world amateur gold medalist.. He also beat byrd(it was last byrds last fight at heavyweight but he stopped him well) and has accumulated some nice wins over some good contenders.. Although the way wladimir won takes away from it a bit I think..

    I would say wladimirs 3 best wins would be haye or povetkin at number 1 or 2, like you said it's hard to know how good david haye really is due to his lack of activity and then sam peter just because wladimir was going through a tough time at that stage of his career and peter was on a roll , although peter is sort of made for wladimir to defeat..

    Chagaev is also a good boxer he defeated valuev and ruiz like haye did(although haye destroyed ruiz) but chagaev had already suffered a really bad ligament or tendon injury, I forget what it was but he was out for a long time) and his illness before he fought wladimir.

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Max I just do not know what to say to you.

    Haye destroys Grant
    Thompson beats up Tyson that Lennox and Holyfield fought
    Chagaev outboxes Golota
    Chambers outboxes Tua every day a week
    Ibragimov has already beaten Holyfield ! Evander was old.

    You make bill Paxton look sensible.

    Merry Christmas.
    these were superb boxers .......

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Quote Originally Posted by SlimTrae View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    Max I just do not know what to say to you.

    Haye destroys Grant
    Thompson beats up Tyson that Lennox and Holyfield fought
    Chagaev outboxes Golota
    Chambers outboxes Tua every day a week
    Ibragimov has already beaten Holyfield ! Evander was old.

    You make bill Paxton look sensible.

    Merry Christmas.
    these were superb boxers .......
    Max does not see the irony in his posts.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Ring Ratings for the period ending June 10, 1992

    1. Evander Holyfield 27-0
    2. Riddick Bowe 30-0
    3. Razor Ruddock 26-3-1
    4. Larry Holmes 54-3
    5. Michael Moorer 29-0
    6. Tim Witherspoon 37-3
    7. Tony Tucker 44-1
    8. George Forman 71-3
    9. Lennox Lewis 20-0
    10. Ray Mercer 18-1


    I'd say that was a damn good period of HW's when a 20-0 Lennox is ranked @ the bottom. I'd question Tucker @ 7, but its not a bad ranking.
    When that issue of Ring came out:
    Bowe was about to fight Pierre Coetzer who was 39-2 never stopped, but was ranked by the ABC belts higher than Bowe. Ring ranked Coetzer @ #12 behind Bert Cooper who was #11.

    Ruddock had just beatan James Bone-crusher Smith-- who knocked out Witherspoon. Then he beat Michael Dokes who was 41-2. And was set to fight then undefeated Phil Jackson who was 25-0 with 23KO's.
    Phil became a gatekeeper after his loss to Ruddock with up & comers like Chris Byrd (13-0), Fres Oquendo (14-0), Monte Barrett (19-0) to Wladimir Klitschko (29-1)


    Michael Moorer was 29-0 with 27KTFO's Facing charges of aggravated assault 5 years possible time- I think he got drunk went to a playground and whooped everybody there..so the story went.
    Interesting tidbit- Because the WBO was new at the time- the other 3 ABC belts (WBC,WBA,IBF) dropped him from their rankings because he won the vacant WBO title in a smoke-fest vs Bert Cooper

    Lennox Lewis- 20-0; Ring magazine raised the question of who could Lennox fight since everyone was booked up- their answer was: If Ruddock dispatches undefeated Phil Jackson - then he should fight a Ring ranked fighter: Lennox.
    Shit, just say the word. Razaor knocked out Jackson in June, signed to fight Lennox by October- shit that's how they got down in 1992!

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    That top 10 reads like a Who's Who of boxing. Compare that list to the top 10 heavyweights at any time during Wlad's reign and I have a feeling the latter would fall considerably short.

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    Default Re: What Era had the Most Talented HeavyWeights?

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    That top 10 reads like a Who's Who of boxing. Compare that list to the top 10 heavyweights at any time during Wlad's reign and I have a feeling the latter would fall considerably short.
    And yet now, EVERYBODY seems to know who all of Wladimir's opponents are just as famously as those ones in that era.

    Funny how time sorted that out, and that's DESPITE the fact many of them are foreigners!

    I mean old veteran Thomson finishing Price and mounting a great fight against Pulev... Reminiscent of old Larry against Morrison and Holyfield not?

    Who could lazy Tony Tucker have beaten from Wlad's top opponents? And this guy went the distance with Lennox Lewis?

    Something isn't quite right with much of your analysis.

    It is questionable whether Bowe could have beaten Pulev.

    It is questionable whether Tyson could have beaten Povetkin.

    It is questionable whether Lewis could have beaten Wladimir.

    It is questionable whether Holyfield could have beaten Haye.

    It is questionable whether Holmes could have beaten Thompson.

    And so on.
    "Enough with the games mate! Your messing with the Grand Master!"

    Lennox Lewis

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