Thread: My 2015 list of the top 100 fighters of the Queensberry Rules era

100 Jem Mace
99 Wlad Klitschko
98 Kid McCoy
97 Tony Zale
96 Carmen Basilio
95 Jung Koo Chang
94 Joe Frazier
93 Eusebio Pedroza
92 Dick Tiger
91 Nicolino Loche
90 Jack McAuliffe
89 Rinty Monaghan
88 Freddie Welsh
87 John L Sullivan
86 James J Corbett
85 Ken Buchanan
84 Al Brown
83 Mike McCallum
82 Felix Trinidad
81 Georges Carpentier
80 Shane Mosley
79 Mike Tyson
78 Nino Benvenuti
77 Ted ‘Kid’ Lewis
76 Lennox Lewis
75 Juan Manuel Marquez
74 Pancho Villa
73 Young Griffo
72 Jack Dempsey (The Nonpareil)
71 Kid Gavilan
70 Benny Lynch
69 Kid Chocolate
68 Wilfred Benitez
67 Carlos Ortiz
66 Wilfredo Gomez
65 Salvador Sanchez
64 Jimmy Carruthers
63 Antonio Cervantes
62 Aaron Pryor
61 Bob Montgomery
60 Ruben Olivares
59 Stanley Ketchel
58 James J Jeffries
57 Maxie Rosenbloom
56 Tommy Loughran
55 George Foreman
54 Rocky Marciano
53 Jim Driscoll
52 Abe Attell
51 Azumah Nelson
50 Ike Williams
49 Jose Napoles
48 Alexis Arguello
47 Jack Dempsey
46 Michael Spinks
45 Bob Foster
44 Larry Holmes
43 Tony Canzoneri
42 Manuel Ortiz
41 Pascual Perez
40 Carlos Zarate
39 Eder Jofre
38 Jimmy McLarnin
37 Evander Holyfield
36 Tommy Hearns
35 Ricardo Lopez
34 Marvin Hagler
33 Roy Jones Jr
32 Jack Johnson
31 Oscar de la Hoya
30 Emile Griffith
29 Manny Paciquao
28 Mickey Walker
27 Terry McGovern
26 Bernard Hopkins
25 Gene Tunney
24 Jimmy Wilde
23 George Dixon
22 Joe Gans
21 Julio Cesar Chavez
20 (Barbados) Joe Walcott
19 Barney Ross
18 Pernell Whitaker
17 Floyd Mayweather Jr
16 Charley Burley
15 Willie Pep
14 Sandy Saddler
13 Ray Leonard
12 Sammy Langford
11 Archie Moore
10 Carlos Monzon
9 Benny Leonard
8 Ezzard Charles
7 Joe Louis
6 Muhammad Ali
5 Harry Greb
4 Bob Fitzsimmons
3 Roberto Duran
2 Henry Armstrong
1 Ray Robinson

You know that list deserves a like because of the shear effort you have put in to it

I don't agree with loads of it tho

Originally Posted by erics44

You know that list deserves a like because of the shear effort you have put in to it

I don't agree with loads of it tho

LOL, no one will! I started it here back in 2003 and have updated it every four year since, so it does get a little easier to do each time.

No Mike Tyson??

Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

No Mike Tyson??

79

Sullivan seems far down the list but definitely a solid effort. I was going to ask you how long it took you but you said you started in 03 do you use an algorithm

That's a bloody tremendous effort. Thank you!

Originally Posted by Britkid

Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

No Mike Tyson??

79

My apologies. I must've gone through it 5 times and never saw it. A lot of effort put into that. Fair play , I couldn't have done it.
I have to say it's impossible to do because there's virtually no footage of the old fighters, and probably too much footage of the modern guys. It almost works against today's guys, because we're bound to find some "bad days at the office."
Good work.

Having Jem Mace at 100 discredits your entire list.

Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

Having Jem Mace at 100 discredits your entire list.

Where (roughly) would you put him?

Great effort I'd say... Didn't Jem Mace more or less help to bring in Queensbury rules, but without actually having many fights under it? His record is listed as mostly Newspaper decisions also, understandably a tough guy to place I'd say. It's so hard to contrast fighters from early days as the nature of the sport was so different, not to mention when there is no footage. You had to fight all the time to make a living in those days, a lot of unquestionably great guys fought horrible opponents well throughout their career or fought the same guy 10 times in a month and won 9 of them, etc. Does that help their standing, really? It's more or less called sparring now.

Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

Having Jem Mace at 100 discredits your entire list.

I decided as of 2011, as the de-facto inventor of the gloved sport he would always be my #100.

It is a recognition of achievement. As the first time I did it, it soon became obvious an already almost impossible task is made even harder if you try and work out if a fighter from 1870 could beat a fighter from 2000, when they basically are involved in different sports. But I decided as a starting point, that the one thing all fighters have in common, no matter what era they fought in or the weight division, was the opportunity to win titles and beat title holders*.



*Of course that too is complicated by politics and discrimination.

Originally Posted by walrus

Sullivan seems far down the list but definitely a solid effort. I was going to ask you how long it took you but you said you started in 03 do you use an algorithm

In 2003 I worked a list of 'best fighters' for each division, as well as 'best fighters' of each decade. I have kept most of these lists, but now generally just work off the previous top 100. Using previous work to place a 'new entrant' if I believe no modern contemporaries can fill the role.

Here is some of the stuff I used as well old lists. Remember some of it is over a decade old:


All-time Super Middleweights:
1 Joe Calzaghe
2 Chong Pal Park
3 Roy Jones Jr
4 Nigel Benn
5 Chris Eubank
6 Steve Collins
7 Sven Ottke
8 James Toney
9 Frankie Liles
10 Byron Mitchell

Mentions: Ray Leonard, Thomas Hearns, Thulani Malinga, Charles Brewster, Richie Woodhall, Eric Lucas and Mikkel Kessler

Middleweights:

40 Paul Pender
39 Thomas Hearns
38 Rocky Graziano
37 Randy Turpin
36 Mike McCallum
35 Georges Carpentier
34 Les Darcy
33 Al McCoy
32 Fred Apostolio
31 Sambu Kalambay
30 Tiger Flowers
29 Gene Fullmer
28 Rodrigo Valdez
27 Dick Tiger
26 Bob Fitzsimmons
25 James Toney
24 Michael Nunn
23 Jack 'Twin' Sullivan
22 Mike O'Dowd
21 Jake LaMotta
20 Freddie Steele
19 Marcel Thil
18 Gorilla Jones
17 Sammy Langford
16 Emile Griffith
15 Joey Giardello
14 Kid McCoy
13 Nino Benvenuti
12 Tony Zale
11 Marcel Cerdan
10 Roy Jones
9 Jack Dempsey
8 Harry Greb
7 Marvin Hagler
6 Bernard Hopkins
5 Mickey Walker
4 Charley Burley
3 Stanley Ketchel
2 Ray Robinson
1 Carlos Monzon

Mentions:
Young CorbettIII
'Bobo' Olson
Carmen Basilio
Terry Downes
Vito Antuofermo
Alan Minter
Iran Barkley
Julian Jackson
Gerald McClellan
Reggie Johnson
Felix Trinidad

Junior Middleweights

10 Sandro Mazzinghi
9 Gianfranco Rosi
8 Wilfred Benitez
7 Ray Leonard
6 Emile Griffith
5 Terry Norris
4 Felix Trinidad
3 Winky Wright
2 Mike McCallum
1 Tommy Hearns

Mentions: Denny Moyer, Nino Benvenuti, Ki Soo Kim, Koichi Wajima, Ayub Kalule, Maurice Hope, Roberto Duran, Julian Jackson, John David Jackson, Julio Cesar Vazquez, Harry Simon, Oscar de la Hoya and Shane Mosley

Top 10 welters

1 Ray Robinson
2 Ray Leonard
3 Kid Gavilan
4 Emile Griffith
5 Henry Armstrong
6 Jose Napoles
7 Felix Trinidad
8 Oscar De La Hoya
9 Thomas Hearns
10 Carmen Bassillo

Mentions to: Tommy Ryan, 'Mysterious' Billy Smith, 'The original' Joe Walcott, Mike Sullivan, Jack Britton, Ted 'Kid' Lewis, Mickey Walker, Jackie Fields, Barney Ross, Jim McLarnin, Fritzie Zivic, Red Cochrane, Benny 'Kid' Paret, Luis Rodriguez, Carlos Palomino, Pipino Cuevas, Roberto Duran, Don Curry, Marlon Starling, Pernell Whitaker and Shane Mosley

Junior Welterweights:


10 Floyd Mayweather Jr
9 Ricky Hatton
8 Oscar de la Hoya
7 Meldrick Taylor
6 Julio Cesar Chavez
5 Nicolino Loche
4 Kostya Tszyu
3 Aaron Pryor
2 Wilfred Benitez
1 Antonio Cervantes

Mentions: Pinkey Mitchell, Jackie Berg, Mushy Callahan, Tony Canzoneri, Barney Ross, Carlos Ortiz, Duilio Loi, Saoul Mamby, Patrizio Oliva, Roger Mayweather, Buddy McGirt, Pernell Whitaker, Frankie Randall, Juan Martin Coggi, Vince Phillips, Zab Zab Judah and Sharmba Mitchell

Top 10 fighters from 1891-1900

10 Pedlar Palmer
9 Jack Dempsey
8 James J Corbett
7 Peter Jackson
6 Young Griffo
5 Terry McGovern
4 James J Jeffries
3 Jack McAuliffe
2 Bob Fitzsimmons
1 George Dixon

Mentions:

Billy Plimmer, , Billy Murphy, Ben Jordan, George Lavigne, Joe Walcott, Tommy Ryan, Mysterious Billy Smith, Kid McCoy and John L Sullivan

Top 10 fighters from 1901 to 1910

10 Tommy Ryan
9 Jim Driscoll
8 James J Jeffries
7 Joe Walcott
6 Stanley Ketchel
5 Terry McGovern
4 Jack Johnson
3 Sammy Langford
2 Abe Attell
1 Joe Gans

Mentions:

Owen Moran, Jimmy Walsh, Ben Jordan, Young CorbettII, Battling Nelson, Jack Sullivan, Billy Papke, Bob Fitzsimmons, Jack O’Brien and Tommy Burns

Top 10 fighters 1911 to 1920

10 Jim Driscoll
9 Harry Wills
8 Jack Johnson
7 Benny Leonard
6 Freddie Welsh
5 Jack Britton
4 Ted Lewis
3 Georges Carpentier
2 Johnny Kilbane
1 Jimmy Wilde

Mentions:

Kid Williams, Pete Herman, Abe Attell, Ad Wolgast, Dixie Kid, Mike Gibbons, Les Darcy, Mike O’Dowd, Sammy Langford, Jack Dillon, Battling Levinsky, Sam McVey, Joe Jeanette and Jack Dempsey


Top 10 fighters 1921 to 1930

10 Sammy Mandell
9 Harry Wills
8 Jack Dempsey
7 Al Brown
6 Tommy Loughran
5 Gene Tunney
4 Pancho Villa
3 Harry Greb
2 Mickey Walker
1 Benny Leonard

Mentions:

Jimmy Wilde, Fidel la Barba, Johnny Kilbane, Johnny Dundee, Kid Kaplan, Benny Bass, Tony Canzoneri, Bat Battalino, Pinkey Mitchell, Jackie Berg, Jack Britton, Joe Dundee, Jackie Fields, Tiger Flowers, Georges Carpentier, Jack Delaney and Maxie Rosenbloom

Top 10 fighters 1931 to 1940

10 Jimmy McLarnin
9 Jackie Berg
8 Benny Lynch
7 Billy Conn
6 Tony Canzoneri
5 Mickey Walker
4 Barney Ross
3 Maxie Rosenbloom
2 Joe Louis
1 Henry Armstrong

Mentions:

Midget Wolgast, Jackie Brown, Little Dado, Al Brown, Kid Chocolate, Baby Arizmendi, Freddie Miller, Joey Archibald, Jackie Fields, Lou Ambers, Fritzie Zivic, Charley Burley, Gorilla Jones, Marcel Thil, Freddie Steele, John Henry Lewis, Max Schmeling, Max Baer and James J Braddock

Top 10 fighters 1941 to 1950

10 Jake LaMotta
9 Rinty Monaghan
8 Sandy Saddler
7 Manuel Ortiz
6 Joe Louis
5 Ezzard Charles
4 Ike Williams
3 Charley Burley
2 Willie Pep
1 Ray Robinson

Mentions:

Jackie Paterson, Vic Toweel, Sammy Angott, Beau Jack, Bob Montgomery, Tippy Larkin, Fritzie Zivic, Red Cochrane, Tommy Bell, Tony Zale, Rocky Graziano, Marcel Cerdan, Gus Lesnevich, Freddie Mills, Archie Moore and Billy Conn

Top 10 fighters 1951 to 1960

10 Floyd Patterson
9 Carmen Bassilio
8 Jimmy Curruthers
7 Kid Gavilan
6 Rocky Marciano
5 Pascual Perez
4 Joe Brown
3 Sandy Saddler
2 Archie Moore
1 Ray Robinson

Mentions:

Dado Marino, Alphonse Halimi, Willie Pep, Hogan Kid Bassey, Davey Moore, Carlos Ortiz, Don Jordan, Bobo Olson, Gene Fullmer, Joey Maxim, Harold Johnson, Jersey Joe Walcott and Ingemar Johansson

Top 10 fighters 1961 to 1970

10 Dick Tiger
9 Nicolino Loche
8 Bob Foster
7 Jose Napoles
6 Vincente Saldivar
5 Muhammad Ali
4 Nino Benvenuti
3 Carlos Ortiz
2 Eder Jofre
1 Emile Griffith

Mentions:

Pone Kingpetch, Fighting Harada, Lionel Rose, Ruben Olivares, Davey Moore, Sugar Ramos, Flash Elorde, Ismael Laguna, Duilio Loi, Benny Paret, Luis Rodriguez, Curtis Cokes, Ki-Soo Kim, Joey Giardello, Carlos Monzon, Willie Pastrano, Floyd Patterson, Sonny Liston and Joe Frazier