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  1. #4486
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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post



    Drove a van through a tent that was registering voters and charged with "aggravated assault" & "criminal mischief"......yyyyyyyyeah how's about an "assault with a deadly weapon" and "attempted murder" but nah, can't be doing that I mean after all these were Trump voters he attacked so it's a good thing he attempted to kill them.


    Looks like a real winner too
    Yeh bad guy. Lock him up . Sadly they'll be more of this from deranged kooks on either "side"

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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    Seems it's about a direct response to apparent corruption and political influence trouncing the rule of law. It's abundantly clear that Barr sees himself a personnel attorney rather than the head of an Independent DOJ. This is as swampy and crooked as any imaginative boogeyman conspiracy even the most dedicate tin-foil hat could come up with.
    Now that COULD, be the case. Seriously that COULD be what has happened......What also COULD be the case?


    7-9 Years for Roger Stone who did what exactly besides just be a loud and at times outrageous supporter of Trump? I mean what did Roger Stone do which caused for a team larger than what we're told took down Bin Laden to be used to bring him in? Was that necessary or was that a show of force and an intimidation tactic? And again it's very important to understand this kind of action from the FBI is not a one off under President Trump. Look at the General Flynn case as well, withholding Brady material. Look at Manafort even....solitary confinement? For what? Do we see a pattern yet? The object of this is clearly to intimidate someone into cracking and telling the FBI not the truth, but what the FBI wishes to hear.
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    Seems it's about a direct response to apparent corruption and political influence trouncing the rule of law. It's abundantly clear that Barr sees himself a personnel attorney rather than the head of an Independent DOJ. This is as swampy and crooked as any imaginative boogeyman conspiracy even the most dedicate tin-foil hat could come up with.
    Now that COULD, be the case. Seriously that COULD be what has happened......What also COULD be the case?


    7-9 Years for Roger Stone who did what exactly besides just be a loud and at times outrageous supporter of Trump? I mean what did Roger Stone do which caused for a team larger than what we're told took down Bin Laden to be used to bring him in? Was that necessary or was that a show of force and an intimidation tactic? And again it's very important to understand this kind of action from the FBI is not a one off under President Trump. Look at the General Flynn case as well, withholding Brady material. Look at Manafort even....solitary confinement? For what? Do we see a pattern yet? The object of this is clearly to intimidate someone into cracking and telling the FBI not the truth, but what the FBI wishes to hear.


    Stone was convicted of serious crimes: lying to Congress and witness tampering. His recommended sentence was by the book — literally. Federal prosecutors go by a manual from the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines Commission that lays out appropriate sentences for specific offenses. The seven- to nine-year sentence that prosecutors had sought was precisely what equal justice mandated.


    Keep in mind, however, that Stone chose to go to trial. He also sought to vilify the prosecution and engage in circus maneuvers designed to suggest his prosecution was a joke. Federal defendants who engage in such tactics virtually never receive sentences lighter than the guidelines stipulate. The system would break down were it otherwise.




    But that anomaly is the least of the outrages in this situation. More worrisome is the naked countermand of the recommendation of career prosecutors in favor of a sweetheart recommendation for a political ally of the president. This is indefensible in the U.S. justice system for any reason, least of all raw political favoritism.




    I have never experienced or even heard of a situation in which a career prosecutor had been ordered to withdraw a sentencing memorandum within the guidelines’ range. The original filing in the Stone case came from two career federal prosecutors and two special assistant U.S. attorneys. This rebuke has to be maddening for them.



    That's a former DOJ duputy AG. It's behind a paywall so no link.







    WASHINGTON — The U.S. attorney who had presided over an inconclusive criminal investigation into former acting FBI director Andrew McCabe was abruptly removed from the job last month in one of several recent moves by Attorney General William Barr to take control of legal matters of personal interest to President Donald Trump, according to multiple people familiar with the matter.
    A person familiar with the matter confirmed to NBC News that Trump has rescinded the nomination of Jessie Liu, who had been the U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C., for a job as an undersecretary at the Treasury Department.



    Liu also supervised the case against Trump associate Roger Stone. On Tuesday, all four line prosecutors withdrew from the case — and one quit the Justice Department altogether — after Barr and his top aides intervened to reverse a stiff sentencing recommendation of up to nine years in prison that the line prosecutors had filed with the court Monday. (Liu left before the sentencing recommendation was made.)
    But that wasn't the first time senior political appointees had reached into a case involving a former Trump aide, officials told NBC News. Senior officials at the Justice Department also intervened last month to help change the government's sentencing recommendation for Trump's former national security adviser Michael Flynn, who pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI. While the prosecutors had once recommended up to six months in jail, their latest filing now says they believe probation would be appropriate.

    "I've never seen this happen, ever," said Gregory Brower, a former U.S. attorney for Nevada and senior FBI official. "I'd be shocked if the judge didn't order the U.S. attorney to come into court to explain it."


    David Laufman, a former counterintelligence chief for the Justice Department, on Twitter called it "a shocking, cram-down political intervention in the criminal justice process. We are now truly at a break-glass-in-case-of-fire moment for the Justice Dept."




    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/jus...ncing-n1135231



    In whatever fucked up places you get your information from these resignations are presumably part of this FBI railroading of innocent people connected to Trump, like innocent Roger Stone who also threatened the judge during his trial and said that he would "never roll on Trump" as he'd been one of the intermediaries between the Trump campaign and the Russians. Oh and the Flynn judge says zero exonerating material was withheld and Flynn's lawyers' claims are conspiracy garbage. Manafort was put in solitary confinement by the prison warder for his own safety, the FBI don't put people in solitary confinement. Again if you read a newspaper you'd know this.


    In the real world this is just part of the continued banana republicisation of America. Your country is going down the toilet in record time. The Fed and the financial system will be next.

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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Stone was convicted of serious crimes: lying to Congress and witness tampering. His recommended sentence was by the book — literally. Federal prosecutors go by a manual from the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines Commission that lays out appropriate sentences for specific offenses. The seven- to nine-year sentence that prosecutors had sought was precisely what equal justice mandated.


    Keep in mind, however, that Stone chose to go to trial. He also sought to vilify the prosecution and engage in circus maneuvers designed to suggest his prosecution was a joke. Federal defendants who engage in such tactics virtually never receive sentences lighter than the guidelines stipulate. The system would break down were it otherwise.
    Oooh ITALICS fancy.

    1. Roger Stone was only found guilty of lying to Congress.
    1A. Many a person has lied to Congress and not served a single day in prison

    2. “I never in any way felt that Stone himself posed a direct physical threat to me or my dog,” ......who said that? Randy Credico, who is that? Oh that's the witness Stone is said to have "tampered" with

    3. Robert Mueller hand picked these folks to run this case

    4. The judge can sentence Stone to however long she wants and hell she'll probably add a few years just like she sent Manafort off to solitary.....Trump can still pardon Stone and he probably will.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    But that anomaly is the least of the outrages in this situation. More worrisome is the naked countermand of the recommendation of career prosecutors in favor of a sweetheart recommendation for a political ally of the president. This is indefensible in the U.S. justice system for any reason, least of all raw political favoritism.
    The anomaly here is the severity of the punishment 7-9 for a nonviolent crime? 7-9 for a crime that is selectively prosecuted? All Trump said and all Barr DID was say 7-9 is too much and boom 4 resignations and immediate bellyaching from the lefties. Calls for yet another bite at the impeachment apple....maybe Trump can get impeached twice and even then he'd STILL win in November.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    I have never experienced or even heard of a situation in which a career prosecutor had been ordered to withdraw a sentencing memorandum within the guidelines’ range. The original filing in the Stone case came from two career federal prosecutors and two special assistant U.S. attorneys. This rebuke has to be maddening for them.
    There you are, in stunned disbelief.....when will that light finally click on for you? When there's the first arrest maybe? Maybe.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    In the real world this is just part of the continued banana republicisation of America. Your country is going down the toilet in record time. The Fed and the financial system will be next.
    I guess you'd know. I mean after all, you knew this was coming right?
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

  5. #4490
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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    Seems it's about a direct response to apparent corruption and political influence trouncing the rule of law. It's abundantly clear that Barr sees himself a personnel attorney rather than the head of an Independent DOJ. This is as swampy and crooked as any imaginative boogeyman conspiracy even the most dedicate tin-foil hat could come up with.
    Now that COULD, be the case. Seriously that COULD be what has happened......What also COULD be the case?


    7-9 Years for Roger Stone who did what exactly besides just be a loud and at times outrageous supporter of Trump? I mean what did Roger Stone do which caused for a team larger than what we're told took down Bin Laden to be used to bring him in? Was that necessary or was that a show of force and an intimidation tactic? And again it's very important to understand this kind of action from the FBI is not a one off under President Trump. Look at the General Flynn case as well, withholding Brady material. Look at Manafort even....solitary confinement? For what? Do we see a pattern yet? The object of this is clearly to intimidate someone into cracking and telling the FBI not the truth, but what the FBI wishes to hear.
    Yes, that's exactly what happened Lyle. Stone was found guilty on 7 Felonies in a Federal court of law by a jury of his piers. The hearing is over. His day in court has concluded. The President intervened prior to the hearing, at the time of the verdict and now at the sentencing. POTUS has zero business interjecting himself for political influence and favor to cast aside, reduce or intimidate lawful jury verdicts! Period. Not that complicated at all. He's too far gone and we are not and never will be an Autocracy ffs. His conduct as of late is down right shameful.

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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    Yes, that's exactly what happened Lyle. Stone was found guilty on 7 Felonies in a Federal court of law by a jury of his piers. The hearing is over. His day in court has concluded. The President intervened prior to the hearing, at the time of the verdict and now at the sentencing. POTUS has zero business interjecting himself for political influence and favor to cast aside, reduce or intimidate lawful jury verdicts! Period. Not that complicated at all. He's too far gone and we are not and never will be an Autocracy ffs. His conduct as of late is down right shameful.
    OK then.

    His conduct makes sense given the circumstances.....but hey believe me later.
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    And that's exactly why the actions of the DOJ should be alarming regardless of party. The inference is it's an opening salvo to be used as a tool for the Presidents personnel political grievances, rule of law and integrity of this Republic be damned. Now he suggests the Pentagon might, maybe, could look further into against Vindman. This is not us.

    To far gone brother. Off the tracks careening through the woods.

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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    He just just pardon him and be done with it. Stone had nothing to do with Russia but got caught up in the probe. It’s hard to swallow people being incarcerated for lying to Congress when during the Russia probe some of the top Dems were lying about evidence they had and have spent a career Lying to the public and each other. When the Supreme Court ruled law enforcement can lie to suspects being interviewed but lying to them is a crime it’s a law that puts them above the law. Screw them, the public’s rating of congress has been horrible for years but they don’t get the message. Term limits are the only solution.

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    Default Re: Today in Trump





    Stone juror says she 'stands with' the prosecutors
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/12/polit...m_source=twCNN
    A juror on the Roger Stone trial said she wants to "stand up" for the four prosecutors who withdrew from the case in response to their sentencing recommendation being changed by Department of Justice leadership.

    Tomeka Hart said she had remained silent about the case for months out of concern for her safety and "politicizing the matter."
    But the events this week led to her to post on her Facebook account that she "can't keep quiet any longer." A copy of the posting was shared with CNN. Hart confirmed to CNN that she wrote the post but did not want to discuss it further.
    "I want to stand up for Aaron Zelinsky, Adam Jed, Michael Marando, and Jonathan Kravis -- the prosecutors on the Roger Stone trial," she wrote in the post that was shared with CNN. "It pains me to see the DOJ now interfere with the hard work of the prosecutors. They acted with the utmost intelligence, integrity, and respect for our system of justice."






    .....why I do believe that's grounds for a mistrial
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

  10. #4495
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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Stone was convicted of serious crimes: lying to Congress and witness tampering. His recommended sentence was by the book — literally. Federal prosecutors go by a manual from the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines Commission that lays out appropriate sentences for specific offenses. The seven- to nine-year sentence that prosecutors had sought was precisely what equal justice mandated.


    Keep in mind, however, that Stone chose to go to trial. He also sought to vilify the prosecution and engage in circus maneuvers designed to suggest his prosecution was a joke. Federal defendants who engage in such tactics virtually never receive sentences lighter than the guidelines stipulate. The system would break down were it otherwise.
    Oooh ITALICS fancy.

    1. Roger Stone was only found guilty of lying to Congress.
    1A. Many a person has lied to Congress and not served a single day in prison

    2. “I never in any way felt that Stone himself posed a direct physical threat to me or my dog,” ......who said that? Randy Credico, who is that? Oh that's the witness Stone is said to have "tampered" with

    3. Robert Mueller hand picked these folks to run this case

    4. The judge can sentence Stone to however long she wants and hell she'll probably add a few years just like she sent Manafort off to solitary.....Trump can still pardon Stone and he probably will.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    But that anomaly is the least of the outrages in this situation. More worrisome is the naked countermand of the recommendation of career prosecutors in favor of a sweetheart recommendation for a political ally of the president. This is indefensible in the U.S. justice system for any reason, least of all raw political favoritism.
    The anomaly here is the severity of the punishment 7-9 for a nonviolent crime? 7-9 for a crime that is selectively prosecuted? All Trump said and all Barr DID was say 7-9 is too much and boom 4 resignations and immediate bellyaching from the lefties. Calls for yet another bite at the impeachment apple....maybe Trump can get impeached twice and even then he'd STILL win in November.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    I have never experienced or even heard of a situation in which a career prosecutor had been ordered to withdraw a sentencing memorandum within the guidelines’ range. The original filing in the Stone case came from two career federal prosecutors and two special assistant U.S. attorneys. This rebuke has to be maddening for them.
    There you are, in stunned disbelief.....when will that light finally click on for you? When there's the first arrest maybe? Maybe.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    In the real world this is just part of the continued banana republicisation of America. Your country is going down the toilet in record time. The Fed and the financial system will be next.
    I guess you'd know. I mean after all, you knew this was coming right?

    Stone was found guilty of lying to congress, witness tampering and obstruction of justice. The Federal rulebook says people guilty of those crimes face seven to nine years which is what prosecutors were asking with Stone.

    The judge did not put Manafort in solitary, the prison warder did. Manafort was in a private cell for his own safety with his own bathroom, computer and phone.

    Barr stepped in and altered the decision of the line prosecutors in the case and gave a much reduced sentencing guideline. The four prosecutors involved all then resigned. Trump congratulated Barr for inserting himself into the case and recommending a much reduced prison sentence for Stone for crimes Stone committed to protect the president. Trump will eventually pardon Stone, or at least commute the sentence because pardoning Stone means he loses the right to claim the Fifth in any subsequent investigation and could be imprisoned until he tells the truth about what Trump knew about the Russian election interference.

    I remember when Bill Clinton havig a brief public encounter on an airport runway with the Obama Attorney General was evidence that the whole Obama administration was a cesspool of corruption. You claimed that Lynch was going to jail for involving herself in the Hillary Clinton investigation even though she took no further part in it. Here we have the president congratulating the Attorney General for carrying out his wishes to see Stone given a much reduced sentence with possibly even no jail time. Trump is also openly pushing for investigations into various Demoratci/Obama people and his Attorney General has recently opened another investigation into Comey, is keeping one against McCabe alive even though a grand jury refused to indict the first bullshit charges, has changed another sentencing recommendation into the Flynn case and more still.

    And you're cheering this on. Why the double standard Lyle? Why is a meeting between Clinton and Lynch evidence of massive corruption and should lead to jailings but banana republic levels of political control over the Trump Justice Department a good thing? This is only going to get worse too. America's institutions aren't standing up well to an increasingly authoritarian president. Nobody is stopping Trump from doing what he wants so he's going to continue the criminality. Of the twelve people who testified publicly in the House impeachment inquiry only three still have their jobs. It's only been a week since Trump was acquitted and since then he's retaliated against witnesses, set the DOJ after a bunch of political opponents, inserted himself into an accomplice's sentencing, attacked a Federal judge, today attacked a Federal juror and is now trying to get New York to drop various investigations into him to continue to get Federal funding.

    And you're supporting all this. And you'll continue to support your leader as he becomes more and more authoritarian. In any country where there's a slide from liberal democracy into authoritarianism you always have a group of people round the leader and a chunk of the population who will click their heels and obey orders. It's as ugly as hell to watch it happen to America. It's not something I thought could happen this quickly either.


    There you are, in stunned disbelief.....when will that light finally click on for you? When there's the first arrest maybe? Maybe.

    What exactly do you mean by this Lyle?

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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    So Michael Avenatti goes to prison.


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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
    So Michael Avenatti goes to prison.

    You mean he's not going to be President? CNN and MSNBC will be SHOCKED to hear this....SHOCKED!!!
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Stone was convicted of serious crimes: lying to Congress and witness tampering. His recommended sentence was by the book — literally. Federal prosecutors go by a manual from the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines Commission that lays out appropriate sentences for specific offenses. The seven- to nine-year sentence that prosecutors had sought was precisely what equal justice mandated.


    Keep in mind, however, that Stone chose to go to trial. He also sought to vilify the prosecution and engage in circus maneuvers designed to suggest his prosecution was a joke. Federal defendants who engage in such tactics virtually never receive sentences lighter than the guidelines stipulate. The system would break down were it otherwise.
    Oooh ITALICS fancy.

    1. Roger Stone was only found guilty of lying to Congress.
    1A. Many a person has lied to Congress and not served a single day in prison

    2. “I never in any way felt that Stone himself posed a direct physical threat to me or my dog,” ......who said that? Randy Credico, who is that? Oh that's the witness Stone is said to have "tampered" with

    3. Robert Mueller hand picked these folks to run this case

    4. The judge can sentence Stone to however long she wants and hell she'll probably add a few years just like she sent Manafort off to solitary.....Trump can still pardon Stone and he probably will.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    But that anomaly is the least of the outrages in this situation. More worrisome is the naked countermand of the recommendation of career prosecutors in favor of a sweetheart recommendation for a political ally of the president. This is indefensible in the U.S. justice system for any reason, least of all raw political favoritism.
    The anomaly here is the severity of the punishment 7-9 for a nonviolent crime? 7-9 for a crime that is selectively prosecuted? All Trump said and all Barr DID was say 7-9 is too much and boom 4 resignations and immediate bellyaching from the lefties. Calls for yet another bite at the impeachment apple....maybe Trump can get impeached twice and even then he'd STILL win in November.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    I have never experienced or even heard of a situation in which a career prosecutor had been ordered to withdraw a sentencing memorandum within the guidelines’ range. The original filing in the Stone case came from two career federal prosecutors and two special assistant U.S. attorneys. This rebuke has to be maddening for them.
    There you are, in stunned disbelief.....when will that light finally click on for you? When there's the first arrest maybe? Maybe.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    In the real world this is just part of the continued banana republicisation of America. Your country is going down the toilet in record time. The Fed and the financial system will be next.
    I guess you'd know. I mean after all, you knew this was coming right?

    Stone was found guilty of lying to congress, witness tampering and obstruction of justice. The Federal rulebook says people guilty of those crimes face seven to nine years which is what prosecutors were asking with Stone.

    The judge did not put Manafort in solitary, the prison warder did. Manafort was in a private cell for his own safety with his own bathroom, computer and phone.

    Barr stepped in and altered the decision of the line prosecutors in the case and gave a much reduced sentencing guideline. The four prosecutors involved all then resigned. Trump congratulated Barr for inserting himself into the case and recommending a much reduced prison sentence for Stone for crimes Stone committed to protect the president. Trump will eventually pardon Stone, or at least commute the sentence because pardoning Stone means he loses the right to claim the Fifth in any subsequent investigation and could be imprisoned until he tells the truth about what Trump knew about the Russian election interference.

    I remember when Bill Clinton havig a brief public encounter on an airport runway with the Obama Attorney General was evidence that the whole Obama administration was a cesspool of corruption. You claimed that Lynch was going to jail for involving herself in the Hillary Clinton investigation even though she took no further part in it. Here we have the president congratulating the Attorney General for carrying out his wishes to see Stone given a much reduced sentence with possibly even no jail time. Trump is also openly pushing for investigations into various Demoratci/Obama people and his Attorney General has recently opened another investigation into Comey, is keeping one against McCabe alive even though a grand jury refused to indict the first bullshit charges, has changed another sentencing recommendation into the Flynn case and more still.

    And you're cheering this on. Why the double standard Lyle? Why is a meeting between Clinton and Lynch evidence of massive corruption and should lead to jailings but banana republic levels of political control over the Trump Justice Department a good thing? This is only going to get worse too. America's institutions aren't standing up well to an increasingly authoritarian president. Nobody is stopping Trump from doing what he wants so he's going to continue the criminality. Of the twelve people who testified publicly in the House impeachment inquiry only three still have their jobs. It's only been a week since Trump was acquitted and since then he's retaliated against witnesses, set the DOJ after a bunch of political opponents, inserted himself into an accomplice's sentencing, attacked a Federal judge, today attacked a Federal juror and is now trying to get New York to drop various investigations into him to continue to get Federal funding.

    And you're supporting all this. And you'll continue to support your leader as he becomes more and more authoritarian. In any country where there's a slide from liberal democracy into authoritarianism you always have a group of people round the leader and a chunk of the population who will click their heels and obey orders. It's as ugly as hell to watch it happen to America. It's not something I thought could happen this quickly either.


    There you are, in stunned disbelief.....when will that light finally click on for you? When there's the first arrest maybe? Maybe.

    What exactly do you mean by this Lyle?

    ??

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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    What about it Kirk? Roger Stone isn't going to spend the rest of his life in prison....Manafort might, but we'll see. AG Barr did the right thing because the sentencing was excessive, it's still completely unfair and Stone is being treated very poorly while other known liars are still free.

    You're not going to accept anything I post, so why should I waste my time responding to your diatribe when all I'll tell you is "we'll see what happens"?


    When the arrests start, perhaps you'll change your tune. Otherwise I guess continue on your victory lap...I would suggest it's a bit premature, but I suppose you know what you're doing.
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: Today in Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    What about it Kirk? Roger Stone isn't going to spend the rest of his life in prison....Manafort might, but we'll see. AG Barr did the right thing because the sentencing was excessive, it's still completely unfair and Stone is being treated very poorly while other known liars are still free.

    You're not going to accept anything I post, so why should I waste my time responding to your diatribe when all I'll tell you is "we'll see what happens"?


    When the arrests start, perhaps you'll change your tune. Otherwise I guess continue on your victory lap...I would suggest it's a bit premature, but I suppose you know what you're doing.



    ??









    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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