Thread: Prime George Foreman vs. Prime Joe Louis.

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Older Foreman has a better shot....what a battle that would have been!

Young Foreman would be more formidable but older George was wiser and smarter who gave Holyfield a very hard time. George Foreman's chin is very underrated.

George always had the power it was just how he managed to deliver it changed...Old Foreman had a great jab and a chopping right cross which could fell a rhinoceros but he was immobile. Young George was very wild and wide with his punches mainly hooks and uppercuts. Those punches are slower than the 1-2 so he could have been beaten to the punch against somebody who threw sharply.

If Young George had the brain of Old George then he would have been the best heavyweight ever.....a George Foreman who was patient and made every punch count would have handled Ali quite easily, it wouldn't have taken him long to put 2 and 2 together and seen that Ali was making him gas out and Ali was fighting in spurts...pawing jab, wait for Ali to come out of his shell and THEN land the crushing right cross.....that would have been goodnight sweetheart.

Young George wasn't dumb, he was just over confident in his natural ability. The way he fought Frazier was perfect.

I am sure Ali was giving as good as he got and was winning the fight against George.

Oh no doubt in their actual fight, Ali fought brilliantly he covered up, used the ropes to take some steam out of the big punches which I am sure still hurt him, but Foreman was loading up on those shots which will gas you, Ali was not loading up on his shots, he was just connecting in multiples rather than throwing 1 at a time and allowing his opponent to prepare for that 1 big one rather than 4-5 sharp punches.

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Older Foreman has a better shot....what a battle that would have been!

Young Foreman would be more formidable but older George was wiser and smarter who gave Holyfield a very hard time. George Foreman's chin is very underrated.

George always had the power it was just how he managed to deliver it changed...Old Foreman had a great jab and a chopping right cross which could fell a rhinoceros but he was immobile. Young George was very wild and wide with his punches mainly hooks and uppercuts. Those punches are slower than the 1-2 so he could have been beaten to the punch against somebody who threw sharply.

If Young George had the brain of Old George then he would have been the best heavyweight ever.....a George Foreman who was patient and made every punch count would have handled Ali quite easily, it wouldn't have taken him long to put 2 and 2 together and seen that Ali was making him gas out and Ali was fighting in spurts...pawing jab, wait for Ali to come out of his shell and THEN land the crushing right cross.....that would have been goodnight sweetheart.

Young George wasn't dumb, he was just over confident in his natural ability. The way he fought Frazier was perfect.

I am sure Ali was giving as good as he got and was winning the fight against George.

Oh no doubt in their actual fight, Ali fought brilliantly he covered up, used the ropes to take some steam out of the big punches which I am sure still hurt him, but Foreman was loading up on those shots which will gas you, Ali was not loading up on his shots, he was just connecting in multiples rather than throwing 1 at a time and allowing his opponent to prepare for that 1 big one rather than 4-5 sharp punches.

True genius and great. Never overrated.

Originally Posted by Master

True genius and great. Never overrated.

No he is/was most certainly overrated...if Marciano or Louis had Ali's mouth (were Joe Louis ALLOWED to speak like that) then I'm thinking you'd have a change of heart.


Ali was always "I'm the greatest, I'm the greatest, I'm the greatest"....Marciano and Louis were quiet humble guys, no flashy flash about them at all, they just stepped in the ring, did a job, and when it was over they acted like regular people whereas Ali was selling everyone on Ali.


Just because he opposed the Vietnam War and hung out with the Nation of Islam doesn't mean he's the greatest boxer ever...it means he took a political and social stance and was given the time and air to keep up with his "I'm the greatest, I'm the greatest, I'm the greatest" chest beating 24/7/365.

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by Master

True genius and great. Never overrated.

No he is/was most certainly overrated...if Marciano or Louis had Ali's mouth (were Joe Louis ALLOWED to speak like that) then I'm thinking you'd have a change of heart.


Ali was always "I'm the greatest, I'm the greatest, I'm the greatest"....Marciano and Louis were quiet humble guys, no flashy flash about them at all, they just stepped in the ring, did a job, and when it was over they acted like regular people whereas Ali was selling everyone on Ali.


Just because he opposed the Vietnam War and hung out with the Nation of Islam doesn't mean he's the greatest boxer ever...it means he took a political and social stance and was given the time and air to keep up with his "I'm the greatest, I'm the greatest, I'm the greatest" chest beating 24/7/365.

I never mention what he said or what he did outside the ring as reasons for him being the best heavyweight ever.

His boxing record and what he accomplished in the ring against the opponent's he faced speaks for itself.

Originally Posted by Master

I never mention what he said or what he did outside the ring as reasons for him being the best heavyweight ever.

His boxing record and what he accomplished in the ring against the opponent's he faced speaks for itself.

It's still a factor...do you think for one second that Ali would be called the greatest if he wasn't as animated as he was or political as he was? He was a cult of personality.

And what Joe Louis accomplished in the ring speaks for itself, it had to, because Joe wasn't allowed to pump himself up at all. 25 successful title defenses in a row....25.....at a certain point it doesn't matter who you are fighting the shear amount of the people you've fought and beaten is impressive and yet nobody seems to accept that at all. Imagine it, Mike Tyson youngest ever heavyweight champion....everyone had to figure, "Well if there's a guy who could break Louis' record, if there's a guy who looks unbeatable for decades to come it's Tyson".....he couldn't do it and not even couldn't do it, he didn't even come close.

Larry Holmes had a great era to accomplish things better than Louis, he had all his prime, none of it taken away by prison or court rulings or war and he couldn't do it.

Joe Louis beat everyone in his era and a few folks coming into his era who were a lot younger than him...it's impressive, it's STATISTICALLY the best heavyweight title reign ergo he's the best heavyweight champion, EVER. 25 in a row, meanwhile Ali won the title what 3 times meaning he had to lose it a few times and win it back, which hey, it's great he could rebound like that Holyfield did that as well.


Again this is Louis vs Foreman.


I'm not a fan of Ali, he was a great boxer, but yes he's overrated due to his own self promotion....Joe Louis wasn't allowed to say he was the best, but at the end of the day he didn't have to say he's the best, his record says he's the best ergo he's the best.

25 defences is a great achievement and no one can take that away from him and even if he ranted and raved he would still be 2nd in my book.

If we're comparing careers between Ali and Louis, it's hard to say because they both had defining victories in their illustrious careers. Ali's wins over Liston, Frazier, and Foreman can never be discounted nor taken away from him. One thing I do hold against him though, is how he managed to lose to the likes of Leon Spinks. Leon Spinks!!!! That he won the title back after that is irrevelant. How the f*** do you lose to a Leon Spinks? I give Ali credit for coming back and reinventing himself after his hiatus, going from a perpetual motion machine to setting down a little more on his punches. Ali wasn't the devastating puncher Louis was because he rarely committed his body entirely to the punch. So it's hard to say. Both were dominant in their eras. Both fought and beat feared fighters.

Originally Posted by Master

25 defences is a great achievement and no one can take that away from him and even if he ranted and raved he would still be 2nd in my book.

Yeah and I get that, I do....you're rating Ali's competition higher than Louis' and that's fine but I just see it differently and that too is fine. 25 consecutive successful title defenses is a tangible, measurable record....if Ali was dropped in Louis' era could he have accomplished that? We can guess but we'll never know. We DO know however Ali couldn't match the accomplishment in his own era.

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by Master

25 defences is a great achievement and no one can take that away from him and even if he ranted and raved he would still be 2nd in my book.

Yeah and I get that, I do....you're rating Ali's competition higher than Louis' and that's fine but I just see it differently and that too is fine. 25 consecutive successful title defenses is a tangible, measurable record....if Ali was dropped in Louis' era could he have accomplished that? We can guess but we'll never know. We DO know however Ali couldn't match the accomplishment in his own era.

We also know that Ali did not get knocked out and lose whilst he was young and up and coming fighter.

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by Master

25 defences is a great achievement and no one can take that away from him and even if he ranted and raved he would still be 2nd in my book.

Yeah and I get that, I do....you're rating Ali's competition higher than Louis' and that's fine but I just see it differently and that too is fine. 25 consecutive successful title defenses is a tangible, measurable record....if Ali was dropped in Louis' era could he have accomplished that? We can guess but we'll never know. We DO know however Ali couldn't match the accomplishment in his own era.

We also know that Ali did not get knocked out and lose whilst he was young and up and coming fighter.

Because his trainer cut his glove to buy time....but sure

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by Master

25 defences is a great achievement and no one can take that away from him and even if he ranted and raved he would still be 2nd in my book.

Yeah and I get that, I do....you're rating Ali's competition higher than Louis' and that's fine but I just see it differently and that too is fine. 25 consecutive successful title defenses is a tangible, measurable record....if Ali was dropped in Louis' era could he have accomplished that? We can guess but we'll never know. We DO know however Ali couldn't match the accomplishment in his own era.

We also know that Ali did not get knocked out and lose whilst he was young and up and coming fighter.

Because his trainer cut his glove to buy time....but sure

Glove was cut any way and it would not have made any difference.

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by Master

25 defences is a great achievement and no one can take that away from him and even if he ranted and raved he would still be 2nd in my book.

Yeah and I get that, I do....you're rating Ali's competition higher than Louis' and that's fine but I just see it differently and that too is fine. 25 consecutive successful title defenses is a tangible, measurable record....if Ali was dropped in Louis' era could he have accomplished that? We can guess but we'll never know. We DO know however Ali couldn't match the accomplishment in his own era.

We also know that Ali did not get knocked out and lose whilst he was young and up and coming fighter.

Because his trainer cut his glove to buy time....but sure

Glove was cut any way and it would not have made any difference.

Sure thing, whatever makes you happy @Master



I guess one of these days I'll learn to keep my view to myself

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by Master

25 defences is a great achievement and no one can take that away from him and even if he ranted and raved he would still be 2nd in my book.

Yeah and I get that, I do....you're rating Ali's competition higher than Louis' and that's fine but I just see it differently and that too is fine. 25 consecutive successful title defenses is a tangible, measurable record....if Ali was dropped in Louis' era could he have accomplished that? We can guess but we'll never know. We DO know however Ali couldn't match the accomplishment in his own era.

We also know that Ali did not get knocked out and lose whilst he was young and up and coming fighter.

Because his trainer cut his glove to buy time....but sure

Glove was cut any way and it would not have made any difference.

Sure thing, whatever makes you happy @Master



I guess one of these days I'll learn to keep my view to myself

I respect your views and I love Joe. Hurts me to point out his weaknesses.

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by Master

25 defences is a great achievement and no one can take that away from him and even if he ranted and raved he would still be 2nd in my book.

Yeah and I get that, I do....you're rating Ali's competition higher than Louis' and that's fine but I just see it differently and that too is fine. 25 consecutive successful title defenses is a tangible, measurable record....if Ali was dropped in Louis' era could he have accomplished that? We can guess but we'll never know. We DO know however Ali couldn't match the accomplishment in his own era.

We also know that Ali did not get knocked out and lose whilst he was young and up and coming fighter.

Because his trainer cut his glove to buy time....but sure

Glove was cut any way and it would not have made any difference.

Sure thing, whatever makes you happy @Master



I guess one of these days I'll learn to keep my view to myself

I respect your views and I love Joe. Hurts me to point out his weaknesses.

Nobody knocks out "'anvil chin"' george foreman